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0.8.4 - PTS - CVs Improvement

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Captains!

 

The sooner you spot enemy ships, the better your team can plan their actions in battle. Early spotting is what aircraft carriers excel at, but we wanted to address an imbalance in this area. To give other ships enough time to reach their desired initial positions, we've introduced the concept of take-off preparation time for squadrons right at the start of battle. It first appears on Tier VI carriers, and the required time to prepare grows with each subsequent tier, eventually reaching 45 seconds at Tier X.

 

 

Read full article HERE.


Please leave any general feedback about update 0.8.4 here. Should your feedback concern one of the following topics, please leave it in the respective thread:

 

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Even though the take-off is delayed, DDs still have to do DD things, taking the lead and going into the cap, which will result in them being spotted by planes when they are even further away from the team and closer to the enemy.

 

Best case scenario, the bigger ships will be free to do whatever they used to do, namely sailing in random directions, just like in non-CV games, for 45 more seconds, but that's it.

 

Worst case scenario, the CV knows exactly where the DD is because a cap is ticking and the DD is 2km further away from his teammates than before the change.

 

This change is necessary but a lot more still needs to be done to protect DD from the flying molesters.

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Im not exactly sure why you insist on calling this topic "CV improvement". CVs clearly get nerfed pretty hard here- which seems to be your intention, and it shows on the PTS. Acknowledge that please.

 

The whole approach to defending DDs against CVs is so fundamentally wrong that i honestly struggle to wrap my head around it. I can come up with 100 alternatives that each do a better job at the sought intent.

 

But let me give three, so you guys can at least see (which will show from PTS and after that live servers, trust me) that your approach doesnt help DDs at all.

 

1. HE bomb overpens for reduced damage against DDs. You can still hit the same way HE bombers can now, but the inflicted damage can simply be 1/2-1/3rd of current. Both DD players AND CV players will pribably encourage this.

 

2. Aircraft should be able to take off instantly, but spotting range can gradually increase from 0 to full over the first two minutes. This allows CVs to start moving their aircraft without the huge scanning potential.

 

3. Capture zones could NOT indicate that an enemy is in them. Or at least not for CV players. This is a tricky one, but worth thinking about imo.

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"CV improvement"? In some sort for sure, but from what i've seen so far:

 

1) Midway HE bombs drop pattern is now the same as the Hakuryu AP bomb drop pattern, with a very significant change, that Midway is not able to do basically ANYTHING to enemy cruisers and DDs.

Better players will hit DDs for 3-4k thats okay but hitting a cruiser? Close to impossible. I would like to remind you how the things worked as CVs ware RTS ---> 4 squadrons no matter which ship, effect? "Devastating strike" and "First blood".

2) Midway Tiny Tims drop slightly behind the marked and aimed position, so the game is lying to you where the rockets will hit, even with correct lead.

3) 45 sec of positioning is good, gives enemy DDs time to position themselves

4) Hakuryu "improved" torpedoe planes mod.8 - Dropping from distance? Okay, doable. Turning around to make a 2nd such drop? impossible, these torps have 6,4 km range so you are already in a mid range of most ships in the game, additionally after a close drop your planes are directly above the attacked ship, so they disappear in 1-3 seconds without you having time to do anything but to press F and send another squadron.

5) Midway Tiny Tims apparently lost their penetration and huge amount of damage. On LIVE Server Midway vs Republique: 10-15k with all rockets hit, on PTS: 4-7k maximum and also shattered rockets.

 

By the looks of things in PTS you guys are STRONGLY suggesting us all to play ONLY AUDACIOUS, because this CV can perform and it is consistent in both damage and accuracy.

 

Herrassing DDs? No problem, it takes longer but they are still spotted and dead. Only thing you did WG is huge nerf to both old CVs and promoting Audacious to be a leader of the CVs.

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[-G0M-]
Beta Tester
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Just make the ships that CV's spot only appear on the mini-map, like a cyclone, or make it so your friendly ships can only target a CV spotted ship once they are closer than say 10km?

 

CV's provide the information on where ships are (not like I know the Des Moines is not going to hug a particular island after all) but not allow them to target and shoot them, if friendlies want to use "x marks the spot" and fire without the dispersion buff of a properly targetted ship then fair play to them, in to the hand of the RNG gods they go.

 

Tb.

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[TV0]
Privateer
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Are double T10 CV games intended on PTS? I've had one yesterday but I thought double T10 CV games were disabled.

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[ALONE]
Modder
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45 sec waiting is to long, that gets boring. 30 is ok, imho. Gonna stick with T8-carriers in that case.

 

Bombing behaviour is weird. Got to learn bombing again. :Smile_hiding:

 

The new Hakuryu is interesting. Finally a choice to take the 4-torps-squad. I was not able to do much, I guess it has to be learned how to use them.

 

Edit: After some more testrounds I say that I like the new Haku as well as the new DBs. As I never liked to hunt DDs in CV these bombs are nicer to handle than before against other ships. :Smile_honoring:

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11 hours ago, Rukenshia said:

Are double T10 CV games intended on PTS? I've had one yesterday but I thought double T10 CV games were disabled.

I think under certain circumstances two CV are still allowed per side. Not sure what the circumstances was now that allows it.

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[TWS]
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Yup, a DD with 6km concealment shouldn't show up to people 14km away, the location should, sure, but not the actual DD.

 

Spotting from aircraft should likely add a bloom perhaps? I'm still finding it too easy to compromise a DD in CV's, to the point that I usually drop a fighter to spot and then go off to chase something bigger.

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Related to round 1:

Prepare to take-off time is a very good thing (it should be here from 0.8.0, together with plane limits) but is too short. Add at least 15 second at each tier (including IV). Most of the battleships (for example) spend first 2 minit just on sailing so aircraft carriers can wait this 1 minit (they will still have the insanely absurd speed and spotting capability).

The change to HE dive bombers didn't help destroyers at all. It actually did the reverse thing. Destroyers are now even easier to kill with this armament (regardless if they are maneuvering or not). Even single HE bomb simply do way too big damage to destroyers and no aiming debuffs or maneuvering is gonna change it.

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[-G0M-]
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So after a few games in ranked and the 15 wins in randoms my initial feedback is that the Hak now has 2 viable options for the torp bombers (which is good), the Midway has been slightly nerfed due to the HE bombs but not much and the Audacious has no changes, although I started playing with the tier9 HE bombers as the reticule is smaller and for picking out DD's in smoke and ensuring fires, they are way better.

 

On the negative side the auto-pilot is still awful, rather than sailing backwards now or ramming in to islands I often see my CV sailing around in circles, the AI just does not seem able to be able to cope with way points set close to each other, picking a route through narrow channels is an utter "no-no". More work is required on that.

 

Also the CV's are just too resilient, during the end game they have pretty much constant fighter caps and it is a grind to take them down. There has to be something that can be done.

 

Placing a fighter cap over a team mate is useful for about 10 secs, one pass and they shoot maybe 3-4 bombers down then you're free to attack at will, I thought a fighter cap was supposed to be around for a little longer, it feels like something has changed on the PTS.

 

In addition, I have never seen so many detonations of BB's from plane torps, pretty much every session I would detonate someone, was the chance increased to detonate ships or are peeps running det flags as standard on the live servers?

 

Finally, the Greece map, I hate it, too many islands, most are way to low for a DD to hide, basically the meta I have seen is for the AA cruisers to sail to the middle, get as close to the islands as they can, get smokes up and pray. The moment one of them is radar'd they get focused, the DD's have nowhere to run to and if you "blob up" and push as a team you are more likely to win, every game I won was when my team all went one direction and steamrolled through one cap then pushed to the middle and past. Only way to try and stop this is for DD's and the Hak to stealth torp, assuming the DD's are still alive when the major middle push starts, which they weren't 9 times out of 10. This map needs some serious work.

 

TB.

 

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[THESO]
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So basicly.

No Significant changes.

CVs remain Broken and keep Ruining the Game....

 

Just that now they Ruin the Game 45 seconds later....

 

I see no way to make CV work with this system.

The System is a complete failure.

 

But I can tell you 3 Changes to at least stop CVs ruining the Game entirely and make em a bearable annoyance.

 

1.

Increase Aggro Range of all Fighters (including Catapult ones) by Factor 3.

So that the Fighters actually deny a Bombing Run and cant just be flown right through....

2.

Bring back Limited Aircraft Supply.

If a Carrier doesnt have Unlimited refilling Aircraft.

He will actually start caring for AA and Fighters.

Right now he can just fly through. Drop. And then Press F. And thus could not care less for Fighters or AA because he gets back the losses anyways.

3.

Remove the Magic Altitude Jump for Aircraft after pressing F.

Aircraft cant just jump 1km altitude by putting their nose up 180 degree and fly straight up.

Especially Bombers cant do this...

Instead when pressing F.

The Aircraft should turn back to the carrier and only raise at normal Speed.

Thus if the CV Player wants his Aircraft to return safely. He first needs to get em out of the Enemy.

And also so that if a CV Player bombs a Ship by flying his Aircraft right into the middle of massive AA. He actually loses these Aircraft.

 

 

 

 

Guys.

Seriously.

This System is BROKEN.

Some Mini Adjustments will NOT change this!!!!!!

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[SB]
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On 5/13/2019 at 4:22 PM, Sunleader said:

Bring back Limited Aircraft Supply.

If a Carrier doesnt have Unlimited refilling Aircraft.

He will actually start caring for AA and Fighters.

Right now he can just fly through. Drop. And then Press F. And thus could not care less for Fighters or AA because he gets back the losses anyways.

Aircraft supply is already limited. Over unlimited time periods, yes they are unlimited. In the 20 min time slot for a battle though, the regen is limited by the speed at which you get new aircraft. For example the Kaga, well known for it's monster reserves, has a maximum of 52 torpedo bombers with AS and FCM 1. It's simply put not possible to get more planes than that in a match.

 

Likewise, the Enterprise is well known for it's fast plane regen - it, however, cannot ever get more than 47 attack aircraft off in a match even when it does nothing but spawn more the whole game.

 

You can get attacked by single plane squadrons, yes, but those are... not the best shall we say. Even a Shima should be able to see off a single plane every two minutes or however long it takes to get from the CV to the DD and back.

 

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[THESO]
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2 minutes ago, MadGunna said:

Aircraft supply is already limited. Over unlimited time periods, yes they are unlimited. In the 20 min time slot for a battle though, the regen is limited by the speed at which you get new aircraft. For example the Kaga, well known for it's monster reserves, has a maximum of 52 torpedo bombers with AS and FCM 1. It's simply put not possible to get more planes than that in a match.

 

Likewise, the Enterprise is well known for it's fast plane regen - it, however, cannot ever get more than 47 attack aircraft off in a match even when it does nothing but spawn more the whole game.

 

You can get attacked by single plane squadrons, yes, but those are... not the best shall we say. Even a Shima should be able to see off a single plane every two minutes or however long it takes to get from the CV to the DD and back.

 

 

This Works both ways.

Because not only the Resupply but also the losses are Limited by the Timer.

 

Having more Planes than you can Expend is called Unlimited.

 

I actually went for an AA Cruiser on Purpose one Match.

A T9 AA Cruiser with my T8 Kaga.

He got a bit over 80 Kills including me dropping fighters on him to buff his kills.

 

Now going by you.

My Kaga has max 52 TBs.

And likely just as many of the 2 other Aircraft.

So at least 150 Aircraft.

(Which is Generous cause I refill Rocket Planes waaaaaay faster than TBs)

I might be able to Temporarily Deplete 1 Type of Squadron and thats about it.

 

So Effectively I have Unlimited Aircraft.

 

 

 

I freaking Kill DDs next to a Minotaur and still wont Run out of Aircraft.

So for T4 and T6 it might be a defacto limit as they run out of full Squads fast.

But on T8 and 10 its just not an Issue.

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The changes to the dive bombers were easy to get used too and certainly they are still very effective against BBs and CAs, rockets are once again my preferred weapon against DDs and still extremely devastating.

 

I didn't find the waiting time at the beginning of the battle to be an issue and when playing as a surface ship it did help a bit.

 

The reduction in flight speed was very sensible now when I position myself near to the battle I can feel it is worth the risk to get my planes engaged sooner, where as before I could easily be far back but my planes were near supersonic, so I could constantly cycle my planes in attacks.

 

I still found plane regeneration to be very fast even when I threw planes away attacking AA ships I never felt punished for throwing planes away needlessly, also conversely as a surface ship no matter how many planes I killed it was never enough to give myself or my team any breathing space.

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[YEBOI]
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The change to the launch time of the aircraft at the start of the battle is a move in the right direction, but for a CV it is just wasted time. I would suggest that the CV can like queue up a certain type of squadron that then launches once it is ready.

Change to the HE dive bombs of american carriers makes it  definitely harder to consistently hit all bombs on a target, especially DDs. A change in the right direction.

I noticed however that currently there is a slight delay between a player executing an action and it actually happening. This gets specifically annoying when dropping cruisers or DDs, WG please fix.

 

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So I played DD quite a bit on the PTS and I can tell you right away that the impact of this change on the game is zlich. My poor destroyer still gets murdered and spotted every minute by a guy hiding in the corner of the map. Absolutely not fun at all! The "just dodge" thing we read here and there is a complete joke, these aren't planes, these are UFOs with insane speed and maneuverability so moving won't do anything. I tried playing carrier too and it's just not fun, it's too trivial.

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On 5/16/2019 at 5:58 PM, Sunleader said:

So for T4 and T6 it might be a defacto limit as they run out of full Squads fast.

But on T8 and 10 its just not an Issue.

Nope, this is not accurate, I rarely ever get "deplaned" at tier4 the AA down at that level is annoying but should never deplane competent CV captains.

 

The jump to tier6 is a little more challenging as you will see tier8's far more often, the life of a tier6 CV is not brillianrt, but it is not on a par with the tier8 CV's.

 

You have made a statement on tier8/10 CV's when you have experience of the Kaga on live servers, yes the Kaga has lots of planes, but try a Saipan in the constant tier10 matches, tier8 CV's see, then come back and say they have unlimited planes. I think the Kaga and BigE have fast regen rates on their planes because they see far more tier10 games than tier8 games, it is probably a balancing mechanic, the 2 CV's that dont have great regen rates, the GZ and Saipan struggle in the hands of less than good players as they are deplaned, I see them regularly launching half squadrons.

 

This whole concept of "unlimited planes" is beyond a joke now, it is a game mechanic, accept it, move on. 

 

If you are so annoyed by "infinite planes" what about infinite torpedoes on DD's? (most only ever had 2 full salvo's, then it was return to port), CV's do not have unlimited planes, a competent CV player can makes his planes last the match, that is not even close to "infinite planes". Also if you want to be able to obliterate a whole squadron with your AA bring back the Dev Strike capability of the RTS CV's. If an RTS CV wanted you dead you were dead, regardless, Def AA was as useless there as it is now. How have people forgotten how "unfair" the RTS CV's were? If you want any further proof go watch Fara's stream when he is on the chinese server, still using RTS CV's, dev striking at will any target he comes across. you want that back?

 

The only reason people "preferred" RTS CV's is that they didn't see them that often and when they did it was a crap shoot with the MM, you hoped you had the good player, becausen if you got the bad player it was almost certainly a loss, regardless of what you did, that's why the good players were 75%+ in their CV's, now we see far more CV's and that's the reason for whining, the meta has changed and many, many folks just cannot or will not adapt.

 

TB.

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[LIDGE]
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Unlimited planes issue:

 

Can't there be a connection between regen time and planes killed?

The more planes are being shot down, the more time it takes to regenerate a new squadron.  For example, 1 more second per plane shot down.

It will compensate a bit the depletion of Ship's AA during the battle.

 

Just my 2 cents...

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[THESO]
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55 minutes ago, T3ddyBear said:

Nope, this is not accurate, I rarely ever get "deplaned" at tier4 the AA down at that level is annoying but should never deplane competent CV captains.

 

The jump to tier6 is a little more challenging as you will see tier8's far more often, the life of a tier6 CV is not brillianrt, but it is not on a par with the tier8 CV's.

 

You have made a statement on tier8/10 CV's when you have experience of the Kaga on live servers, yes the Kaga has lots of planes, but try a Saipan in the constant tier10 matches, tier8 CV's see, then come back and say they have unlimited planes. I think the Kaga and BigE have fast regen rates on their planes because they see far more tier10 games than tier8 games, it is probably a balancing mechanic, the 2 CV's that dont have great regen rates, the GZ and Saipan struggle in the hands of less than good players as they are deplaned, I see them regularly launching half squadrons.

 

This whole concept of "unlimited planes" is beyond a joke now, it is a game mechanic, accept it, move on. 

 

If you are so annoyed by "infinite planes" what about infinite torpedoes on DD's? (most only ever had 2 full salvo's, then it was return to port), CV's do not have unlimited planes, a competent CV player can makes his planes last the match, that is not even close to "infinite planes". Also if you want to be able to obliterate a whole squadron with your AA bring back the Dev Strike capability of the RTS CV's. If an RTS CV wanted you dead you were dead, regardless, Def AA was as useless there as it is now. How have people forgotten how "unfair" the RTS CV's were? If you want any further proof go watch Fara's stream when he is on the chinese server, still using RTS CV's, dev striking at will any target he comes across. you want that back?

 

The only reason people "preferred" RTS CV's is that they didn't see them that often and when they did it was a crap shoot with the MM, you hoped you had the good player, becausen if you got the bad player it was almost certainly a loss, regardless of what you did, that's why the good players were 75%+ in their CV's, now we see far more CV's and that's the reason for whining, the meta has changed and many, many folks just cannot or will not adapt.

 

TB.

 

Differences between Single CVs should not matter here.

See Mate.

In the other Topic. Someone Challenged me to Bomb Worcester and T10 Blobs.

And I did that in my Kaga.

I lost about 130 Planes in that Match because I on purpose Bombed a Freaking Worcester with each Squad Type at least Once.

While also Bombing other Ships around and in front of the Worcester to Reach it.

In that Match I really wasted my Planes on Purpose like Crazy. Going at a T10 Blob with my T8 Carrier.

Earning 180k Spotting Damage from it.

 

See Mate.

In Effect you might get smaller Squads in the end. Due to Planes not Regenerating a Full Squad before your Next Attack.

But you will still get Bombing Squads going that can unload 1 Charge per Flight pretty fast.

 

 

 

And No Mate.

The reason why People Preferred the RTS CVs.

Has absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

The Reason RTS CVs were less Hated than the Current CVs.

Is because RTS CVs were something you could Counter to some Degree.

 

1.

The Player did not have Full Control of the Squadrons.

So there was a Several Second Delay between you Ordering to Drop your Load either Automatic or Manual.

And the Planes actually doing that.

And once that Order was Given and you were inside that Delay. You could not Adjust or Abort the Drop.

Thanks to that. Even a BB. Could usually Evade Torps sometimes. Or at least Vastly Reduce the Damage Taken when they made the right Decision.

 

2.

Catapult Fighters were never really Dangerous to Planes. Because the 1 Fighter often even got Killed by the Bombers rear Gunners.

But if he Attacked. The Bombers suddenly got Super Inaccurate. Basicly Landing maybe 20% of the Damage they usually did. Or Missing entirely.

 

3.

AA Consumable was really powerful on some Cruisers.

It could easily Delete Several Squadrons in all Directions.

And even if it did not. It still make Dropping Bombs super Inaccurate so you would not be hit.

 

4.

RTS CVs had Limited Planes and were Present with far more Planes at Once in the Battle.

This is a Huge Difference in Playing Mentality and Feeling for both sides.

Back then. CVs usually had like 30 Planes out in the Match. And their Total Stockpile was like 90 Planes.

So if they Lost a Full Squadron Twice that usually meant they were pretty much out of the Match or at least Tremendously Reduced in their Power.

So while an RTS CV could Run some Devastating Attacks if you were Undefendent. When Defended you could effectively Take the CV Out of the Game.

 

5.

RTS CVs were Competing Players.

In the RTS. CVs had to Fight each other in the Air to actually get any Bombing out.

Which Tremendously Hindered their Ability to Harass a Single Player and also caused Significant Losses if they werent careful.

 

 

 

But all of this no Longer Exists in the current CV Gameplay.

Instead CVs can Harass you for the whole Game. You cannot Stop them.

They have little to no Obstacles and you cant even Defend yourself against their Drops.

And well. The thing we just talked about.

 

They need like 30-40% of the Planes they needed in RTS to be an Dangerous Adversary to you.

While at the same Time having 200% the Planes Available.

 

 

 

Wargaming Pretty much Removed any Risk and any Skill Requirement to CVs.

And made sure that CVs can effectively just keep Harassing everyone on the Battlefield without any Risk to themselves.

 

And this kind of thing.

Makes People Feel like they are the Turkey in a Turkey Shoot.

Which is a Feel that Players absolutely Detest.

And which will lead to this current System causing more and more of a Crabstorm the longer it lasts.

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On 5/9/2019 at 5:23 PM, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

1. HE bomb overpens for reduced damage against DDs. You can still hit the same way HE bombers can now, but the inflicted damage can simply be 1/2-1/3rd of current. Both DD players AND CV players will pribably encourage this.

how do you overpen with something that explodes on contact?
whats next?  that anything above 200mm guns should overpen with he?
11821393.jpg

shows how much the cv fans know about the game and balance, other than trying to keep a ship class broken

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