WG, don't do the same mistake in WoWs as you did in World Of Fantasy Tanks

[HussarKaz]

 

>Tier 10 imaginary ships like Conqueror, Grosser Wurst etc.

>a nonsense Russian BB line full of papers (except for Tier 4) while real Russian BBs like Potemkin are still missing in the game 

>imaginary paper premiums like Georgia

 

WG please stop.

WoT is already ruined (especially in Tier 8) with fantasy tanks. Don't ruin WoWs this way.

[ColonelPete]

Do you want only one Tier X BB?

[El2aZeR]

[HussarKaz]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Do you want only one Tier X BB?

I understand it at Tier X, but the Russian BB line is filled with nonsense at Tier 3, 5, 6, 7, twice at 8, 9, and twice at 10.

Georgia is Tier 9 paper that is absolutely unnecessary in game. And there is much more ships like that.

[ColonelPete]

24 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

I understand it at Tier X, but the Russian BB line is filled with nonsense at Tier 3, 5, 6, 7, twice at 8, 9, and twice at 10.

Georgia is Tier 9 paper that is absolutely unnecessary in game. And there is much more ships like that.

Because otherwise we would have techtrees that look like swiss cheese...

Prefer that?

[lovelacebeer]

I can understand the desire for real historical ships, however I honestly don't have a problem with the paper ships provided they are balanced. Sometimes the paper ships can be interesting to look at if your into naval  history. 

 

The Russian BBs are understandably a response to the desire from within the Russian server, and for me I just see them as adding diversity to the game. 

They don't excite me but I also have nothing against them so enjoy the greater diversity in targets. 

 

All I ask is for balance, now that is far more important to me.

[thiextar]

36 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

 

>Tier 10 imaginary ships like Conqueror, Grosser Wurst etc.

>a nonsense Russian BB line full of papers (except for Tier 4) while real Russian BBs like Potemkin are still missing in the game 

>imaginary paper premiums like Georgia

 

WG please stop.

WoT is already ruined (especially in Tier 8) with fantasy tanks. Don't ruin WoWs this way.

If one nation built the biggest and strongest battleship in the world, you would obviously want that ship at tier 10.

 

But now what? How can any other nation compete with that ship? Seeing as it was the biggest battleship ever build, is it just supposed to be overpowered? Of course not, thats why the other nations need to have imagined tier 10 ships capable of competing with the biggest battleship in the world. 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

43 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

I understand it at Tier X, but the Russian BB line is filled with nonsense at Tier 3, 5, 6, 7, twice at 8, 9, and twice at 10.

Georgia is Tier 9 paper that is absolutely unnecessary in game. And there is much more ships like that.

Rising sun is a game hat is very very realistic so I am told, this however lets you play ships which the real life powers that be never let loose, I say bring em on, that said the Vladivostok needs so much buffing it is a joke, spotter plane, secondaries equal to that of the Tirpitz, and a huge range buff.

[Norris_of_Quirm]

I would prefer it if every last ship in the game were entirely historical; that said, there simply aren't enough historical ships to make a good and balanced game of the type we all enjoy, so it's inevitable that some degree of 'napkin designing' is going to happen (assuming you want things like Yamato in the game).

 

I would also prefer it if the obvious omissions from the game (*cough* Italians *cough*) were addressed before WG tried to make the Russians feel better about their historical lack of BBs, but financial considerations clearly matter more to the overall roadmap.

 

Having got that out of the way, based on the Russian BBs that I have already (T5, 6, and 8, plus Okt Rev - of course), I do feel it could be a lot worse: the made-up ships themselves are reasonably believable (although I'm not a naval architect); it's not like they are some sort of deranged fever-dream from a designer with an over-developed sense of nationalism. I haven't really played mine much (although I gave the T6 a run-out in Ops this weekend), but they don't seem to break anything very much in the hands of a typical player.

 

So long as future made-up stuff is kept to a necessary minimum (= enough to keep the Russian server from bursting into *too many* insecure tears), and avoids being complete fiction, I don't really mind. Compared to WOT Blitz, and things like Nameless on the WOT Asia server, we've got off very lightly - so far anyway.

 

(note: things like anime skins are entirely fine, as you don't have to see them if you don't want to)

[hellhound666]

2 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

I understand it at Tier X, but the Russian BB line is filled with nonsense at Tier 3, 5, 6, 7, twice at 8, 9, and twice at 10.

Georgia is Tier 9 paper that is absolutely unnecessary in game. And there is much more ships like that.

u dont understand crap m8 fter 100 bttles. russia is home market for wg and paper russian bb line is perfectly ok. if u dont like them dont play them

[Bics93]

Some of my favorite ships are “paper ships”: Alsace, Henri, De Grasse, Shcohrs and I think I’ll grind the russian BBs because they look like badass and their play-style seems interesting...  

[Floofz]

I can understand that they need to fill holes to make a techtree. I can also understand why they add ships like Kronshtadt or Montana. They were ships that were very nearly completed but either cancelled at the last moment or destroyed before being completed.

What I dont like is when they add ships that are complete fiction, ships that wouldve never ever been built or ships that were never even blueprints. Ships like Conqueror, Georgia, Grosser Kurfurst, Zao etc. Especially not when there are real ships that could fill those holes. WG should ALWAYS opt for real ships in real configurations over fictional ships. And the worst thing are all the fictional premium ships. There is ZERO need for them, ZERO.

 

[Panocek]

3 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

I understand it at Tier X, but the Russian BB line is filled with nonsense at Tier 3, 5, 6, 7, twice at 8, 9, and twice at 10.

Georgia is Tier 9 paper that is absolutely unnecessary in game. And there is much more ships like that.

So are Frenchies, with only three battleships made in steel.

 

24 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

I can understand that they need to fill holes to make a techtree. I can also understand why they add ships like Kronshtadt or Montana. They were ships that were very nearly completed but either cancelled at the last moment or destroyed before being completed.

What I dont like is when they add ships that are complete fiction, ships that wouldve never ever been built or ships that were never even blueprints. Ships like Conqueror, Georgia, Grosser Kurfurst, Zao etc. Especially not when there are real ships that could fill those holes. WG should ALWAYS opt for real ships in real configurations over fictional ships. And the worst thing are all the fictional premium ships. There is ZERO need for them, ZERO.

 

Because incomplete tech trees are bad for business. Otherwise Clan Battles would be World of Yamatos, Worcesters and Des Moines. And occasional suicidal Shimakaze and Gearing.

 

Sounds like game in open beta, when only USN and IJN were available 

 

Besides, War Thunder avoids "papercraft" whenever possible... And I'd say that works for the worse, as for Aerial Combat, anything other than Sabre/MiG and their supersonic followups is chaff. Pure flying exp to be farmed. Same with tanks, any other branch NOT having OP toys at their disposal is simply... discouraged from playing.

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

5 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Do you want only one Tier X BB?

Yes

[ColonelPete]

Just now, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Yes

Then make your own game.

The majority of players want more than one Tier X BB in the game.

[HussarKaz]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Because otherwise we would have techtrees that look like swiss cheese...

Prefer that?

If a paper ship is necessary to complete a line that lacks one or two tier ships - it is fine.

As well as in WoT where, for example, a Polish line is completed with total sci-fi Tier 7 called 45TP.

If it is necessary to complete an interesting line - okay.

 

But the entire fantasy lines and paper premiums are absurd. What next? Romanian battleships? Polish aircraft carriers? Czech submarines?

I don't want WoWs to end like WoT where 90% vehicles newer saw combat (especially Tier 8 is flooded with absurd never-existing premium vehicles, i.e. Defender)

[Floofz]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

So are Frenchies, with only three battleships made in steel.

 

Because incomplete tech trees are bad for business. Otherwise Clan Battles would be World of Yamatos, Worcesters and Des Moines. And occasional suicidal Shimakaze and Gearing.

 

Sounds like game in open beta, when only USN and IJN were available 

 

Besides, War Thunder avoids "papercraft" whenever possible... And I'd say that works for the worse, as for Aerial Combat, anything other than Sabre/MiG and their supersonic followups is chaff. Pure flying exp to be farmed. Same with tanks, any other branch NOT having OP toys at their disposal is simply... discouraged from playing.

 

I didnt mean that they should only feature ships that existed and were built. Im fine with putting ships in the game that were either layed down and not completed, or being close to but cancelled. Examples if these are Montana, never layed down but was going to if the war hadnt ended. Lion that was also supposed to be built. Ibuki that was converted into an aircraft carrier. Sovetsky Soyuz that was partially completed but not finished, same with Kronshtadt and believe it or not Stalingrad. Stalingrads hull was actualy used as target practice since it was cancelled because of Stalins death. Moskva was supposed to be a Stalingrad class, so it has the wrong guns in the game.

Even Minotaur and Neptune were supposed to be built but wasnt for various reasons.

So Im fine with these ships. What Im not fine with are ships that are complete imaginary works of fiction. Examples of these, Zao, Conqueror, Grosser Kurfurst. And its not only tier 10, you have fictional ships in the lower tiers such as Yorck, Roon, Nicholas, Izumo, Schors etc. But the worst part is the premiums and you all know whch these are. Simply because fictional premiums are completely and entirely unecessary. Theres plenty of historical ships that still arent in the game.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

7 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

 

I didnt mean that they should only feature ships that existed and were built. Im fine with putting ships in the game that were either layed down and not completed, or being close to but cancelled. Examples if these are Montana, never layed down but was going to if the war hadnt ended. Lion that was also supposed to be built. Ibuki that was converted into an aircraft carrier. Sovetsky Soyuz that was partially completed but not finished, same with Kronshtadt and believe it or not Stalingrad. Stalingrads hull was actualy used as target practice since it was cancelled because of Stalins death. Moskva was supposed to be a Stalingrad class, so it has the wrong guns in the game.

Even Minotaur and Neptune were supposed to be built but wasnt for various reasons.

So Im fine with these ships. What Im not fine with are ships that are complete imaginary works of fiction. Examples of these, Zao, Conqueror, Grosser Kurfurst. And its not only tier 10, you have fictional ships in the lower tiers such as Yorck, Roon, Nicholas, Izumo, Schors etc. But the worst part is the premiums and you all know whch these are. Simply because fictional premiums are completely and entirely unecessary. Theres plenty of historical ships that still arent in the game.

 

Isn't the Zao though supposedly based on the Design B-65 cruiser? Arguably she is (for me) the only really somewhat playable Japanese high tier cruiser so I am not exactly sorry that they included her in game.

 

But agree with you in principle, especially with tiers where they could have selected ships that really did exist. There seems to be little point in adding paper ships in their place.

[ColonelPete]

20 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

If a paper ship is necessary to complete a line that lacks one or two tier ships - it is fine.

As well as in WoT where, for example, a Polish line is completed with total sci-fi Tier 7 called 45TP.

If it is necessary to complete an interesting line - okay.

 

But the entire fantasy lines and paper premiums are absurd. What next? Romanian battleships? Polish aircraft carriers? Czech submarines?

I don't want WoWs to end like WoT where 90% vehicles newer saw combat (especially Tier 8 is flooded with absurd never-existing premium vehicles, i.e. Defender)

That would still leave many lines as swiss cheese or short.

 

[Norris_of_Quirm]

36 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

especially Tier 8 is flooded with absurd never-existing premium vehicles, i.e. Defender

Technically, Defender was built for real - it was the 'other' prototype of the IS-6, if memory serves me right (I *think* the distinction is to do with the drive-train). You're right though: never saw combat*.

 

I don't mind this sort of thing, as they were at least real (a lot of the weird stuff in WOT gets a pass from me on these grounds), but it's a bit harder to apply the same criterion to ships - it's not like you can knock up a swift prototype ship in a few weeks/months most of the time...

 

*Edit: here's a link if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS_tank_family#Object_252/253_IS-6

[HussarKaz]

3 minutes ago, Norris_of_Quirm said:

Technically, Defender was built for real - it was the 'other' prototype of the IS-6, if memory serves me right (I *think* the distinction is to do with the drive-train). You're right though: never saw combat.

 

I don't mind this sort of thing, as they were at least real (a lot of the weird stuff in WOT gets a pass from me on these grounds), but it's a bit harder to apply the same criterion to ships - it's not like you can knock up a swift prototype ship in a few weeks/months most of the time...

No single prototype was built. It existed only in blueprints. Anyway, 252U is only one of Tier 8 never-existing vehicles. The funny fact is that they often outmatch real existing vehicles, i.e. Lowe (existing only in blueprints) is way better than real Tiger II; the best TD on Tier 8 is never-built Skorpion; the best HT is Defender, etc...

[Norris_of_Quirm]

1 minute ago, HussarKaz said:

No single prototype was built. It existed only in blueprints. Anyway, 252U is only one of Tier 8 never-existing vehicles. The funny fact is that they often outmatch real existing vehicles, i.e. Lowe (existing only in blueprints) is way better than real Tiger II; the best TD on Tier 8 is never-built Skorpion; the best HT is Defender, etc...

I don't believe you're correct: whilst not exactly wildly accurate in terms of the data, there are a few pics in the IS-6 entry from the wiki ('historical images' section) - they're a mixture of Obj 252, and 253 (the latter being IS-6 from the game; the former being Defender). I understand they built at least one of each - the Russians did seem to like prototyping stuff.

 

You've got them bang to rights on stats though: the prototypes and blueprint designs can be given whatever characteristics WG find most amusing/commercial. They don't always go crazy though - the IS-6 is poor (these days, anyway), and the KS Waffle doesn't exactly pull up trees etc.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

16 minutes ago, Norris_of_Quirm said:

Technically, Defender was built for real - it was the 'other' prototype of the IS-6, if memory serves me right (I *think* the distinction is to do with the drive-train). You're right though: never saw combat*.

 

I don't mind this sort of thing, as they were at least real (a lot of the weird stuff in WOT gets a pass from me on these grounds), but it's a bit harder to apply the same criterion to ships - it's not like you can knock up a swift prototype ship in a few weeks/months most of the time...

 

*Edit: here's a link if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS_tank_family#Object_252/253_IS-6

 

That's pretty much how I see it too. Mentally much easier to accept an odd 'paper tank' or two than an entire fleet of phantom ships.

 

9 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

No single prototype was built. It existed only in blueprints. Anyway, 252U is only one of Tier 8 never-existing vehicles. The funny fact is that they often outmatch real existing vehicles, i.e. Lowe (existing only in blueprints) is way better than real Tiger II; the best TD on Tier 8 is never-built Skorpion; the best HT is Defender, etc...

 

The biggest problems in WoT IMO are not so much related to 'prototype' or 'blueprint' tanks as such, but the fact that some of the tanks there are just too unrealistic to ever have been built. Also many of their blueprint tanks represent failed designs. For gameplay purpose this can, of course, be adjusted. This is somewhat trivial because a lot of the problems for gameplay are tied to the MM. You just end up being bottom tier too often for it to be much fun. The two tier gap in WoT is also much bigger than the relative gap is in WoWS, thankfully. (By 'thankfully' I mean the gap isn't as big in WoWS, it is way too big in WoT, IMO).

 

 

[HussarKaz]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

The biggest problems in WoT IMO are not so much related to 'prototype' or 'blueprint' tanks as such, but the fact that some of the tanks there are just too unrealistic to ever have been built. Also many of their blueprint tanks represent failed designs. For gameplay purpose this can, of course, be adjusted. This is somewhat trivial because a lot of the problems for gameplay are tied to the MM. You just end up being bottom tier too often for it to be much fun. The two tier gap in WoT is also much bigger than the relative gap is in WoWS, thankfully.

 

This is also true. Type 5 Heavy would be barely able to move in real life.

[Norris_of_Quirm]

Just now, HussarKaz said:

 

This is also true. Type 5 Heavy would be barely able to move in real life.

The Japanese heavies were ludicrous; from an 'interesting history' perspective, it's a shame nothing survives (unless you count a track fragment) of what was actually built...