How do you judge target speed?

[Battledragon]

I've been playing since the preorder ships came out.  So far the biggest problem I have is that with long range shooting getting a read on the enemy's bearing isn't too hard with practice but it's very hard to tell if a ship 16km or so away is going full speed or idling along at 2-3 knots.  This is kind of important to know in order to lead the target correctly.

Am I missing something, or is it actually impossible to get any kind of idea how fast an enemy ship is moving other than firing off a ranging shot first, which usually just makes them start dodging and/or changing speed as soon as they see it land, and is therefor almost always useless by the time you've seen where it went and fired again.

It seems a bit broken to me that the only way to guage a targets speed right now seems to be that cheat aim mod.

If there is a way to do this without installing cheat mods, I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me.

[Dangerhamster]

A combination of watching for a couple of seconds and experience. If in doubt a ranging shot followed by adjustment to allow for them reacting, a lot of targets will turn out from a shot from habit.

[DestoryerO_o]

Anything besides that, you will have to learn from experience.

 

In my case i never use the ALT key and fire my shots just by observing my opponent's movements. all humans are predictable to a certain extent, so i land lots of shots on targets changing direction a lot.

 

I do however fire my 1st long shot with no real hope in hitting the target - that shot is fired just to find the lead distance.

Different guns have different projectile velocity, different firing arcs, and  thus different times it takes the projectile to travel to the target - so, that lead distance is different for each type of gun - thus the 1st miss-shot.

[Historynerd]

I've been playing since the preorder ships came out.  So far the biggest problem I have is that with long range shooting getting a read on the enemy's bearing isn't too hard with practice but it's very hard to tell if a ship 16km or so away is going full speed or idling along at 2-3 knots.  This is kind of important to know in order to lead the target correctly.

Am I missing something, or is it actually impossible to get any kind of idea how fast an enemy ship is moving other than firing off a ranging shot first, which usually just makes them start dodging and/or changing speed as soon as they see it land, and is therefor almost always useless by the time you've seen where it went and fired again.

It seems a bit broken to me that the only way to guage a targets speed right now seems to be that cheat aim mod.

If there is a way to do this without installing cheat mods, I'd appreciate it if someone can explain it to me.

 

Well, perhaps I'm not the best person suited for answering you (my hit rate at long ranges isn't that good), but if you want my two cents you can have them.

It's vital to have at least an idea of how fast a ship can go; that is important because most of the time players don't stray away from top speed, especially when there are torpedo bombers or DDs on the loose. I start with that, then if my shots don't reach the enemy I know he must be slowing down. It can sure be frustrating, if you are in a BB, but something more precise... I'm afraid that there isn't.

[MeanGreenUnseen]

IMHO the biggest problem is not the speed, it's determining the angle of movement, but I guess that's just me.

 

Anyway, it mainly comes with experience. Generally I try to determine about how far the ship moves in 1s, then look at it with alt-view to see the shooting time to hit, then look at the map to determine the angle, then shoot. I feel it's a good practice to add 1-2s of distance due to the server lag.

[Battledragon]

I think it'd be nice if they could make some kind of ship's wake, so you could at least get a rough guess on how fast they were moving by how long it was.  What do you think?

And I've seen a lot of battleships that seem to dodge my fire by slowing to half speed soon as I fire a shot close to them so the rest of my salvo drops way in front of them even though they clearly have not turned.

[Xmasbeer]

IMHO the biggest problem is not the speed, it's determining the angle of movement, but I guess that's just me.

 

Anyway, it mainly comes with experience. Generally I try to determine about how far the ship moves in 1s, then look at it with alt-view to see the shooting time to hit, then look at the map to determine the angle, then shoot. I feel it's a good practice to add 1-2s of distance due to the server lag.

 

While holding alt note the distance of the target with the interval of one or two seconds. So if your target was 16km away and a second later it is 15,9km away and your shot takes 15 seconds to get there, then adjust your distance roughly 1,5 km closer while also obviously taking lead of the other axis. There I too look how far the target traversed in one second and the rest is math. However it does mean that I hold alt button 90% of the time...

[Cattro]

I figured out that when I play, I judge speed and direction a lot of the surrounding terrain and the enemy ship in accordance to it. I also use my map to determine their heading. This is why I struggle to land hits on Ocean because I personally have no point of reference, then it's a bit of luck;) 

[Battledragon]

trouble with using landmarks to tell how fast they are moving is I'm moving too, unless they're passing close to an island it's still kind of hard to figure how fast they are going what with the paralax involved with viewing a moving target from a moving platform.

I mean they can look like they're moving towards an island even if they're stationary just because I'm moving past the same island in the opposite direction from the far side.

[Conte_Vincero]

I generally have a feel for how fast a ship is going, most ships will be traveling around 27-33 kts anyway so it's not that much of a difference, if I'm unsure I fire of one turret first and then the rest once I know how the first is going to land.

[rancidpunk]

I did think we'd have some reading of approximate speed along with distance - any Gunnery Officer would have calculated the target ships speed while he was calculating the range then report to the Captain something like; 

 

"Battleship Yamato, bearing red three zero, distance 15 miles, moving left to right, approximate speed 15 knots increasing"

 

Having a basic speed estimate could help people a bit but nowhere near as much as that bloody "aimbot" lead indicator mod!

[Seinta]

The way I learned how to aim properly is I always presume that the ship is going full speed and use sequential fire to draw a line at a predicted location of the ship and from then on it's easy.

Once you get used to the speeds ships have( usualy IJN CA's are faster than US) you can score good hits and 1 or 2 salvos can help you adjust to the speed if it's lower.

[PassTheSalt]

You can usually tell if that ranging shot is going to hit whilst it's in the air, once confident of adjustment or not fire the salvo, the sooner you get it off the less time the have to deviate/react.

[Benaulim]

The way I learned how to aim properly is I always presume that the ship is going full speed and use sequential fire to draw a line at a predicted location of the ship and from then on it's easy.

Once you get used to the speeds ships have( usualy IJN CA's are faster than US) you can score good hits and 1 or 2 salvos can help you adjust to the speed if it's lower.

 

This. Players tend to sail full ahead most of the time. If there is one that actually changes speed (or course) a lot I tend to switch to an easier target if available.

[Pivke]

i watch a target a couple of seconds (when turrets move in position). if target is far and i cant judge his speed corectly than i fire one gun only, than adjust my lead when i see my shell start dropping and fire the full guns (before the first shoot lands near the target, because i want to leave them less time to manouver or change speed) most smart people start turning or change speed when things start landing near them.

 

but like most people here say: experience is the key! the more you use a ship, the more you get used to its guns. so its kind of "gets in your blood" how much you need to lead the target and only make minor adjustments to get better hits.

[Xevious_Red]

Look at their smoke stacks - smoke streaming behind them? They're moving forward at full speed. Smoke going straight up? They're sat dead in the water.

[ThatOneDidntGoIn]

In a battleship this can be a pain because of the reload times but in other ships just use a ranging shot.

Use the lines on your sight as a guide and it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out. What is more difficult is when they are manoeuvring, then it's down to guess work. They might be going at the same speed but the distance they travel laterally will be shorter so adjust your lead closer to the target. If they are turning away from you you will also need to raise you aim, and if they are turning towards you, lower your aim.

 

Some ships are so fast that you have to lead more than the markings on your sight will allow, again, ranging shots will help.

 

If you are not sure, fire your guns in sequence and move your aim point slightly for each shot and see which round lands the best.

 

I would like to see more wake from a ship though, especially bigger ships. Sometimes it looks like BB's are sitting still but a ranging shot clearly shows they are not. A wake would clear that up.

[Zenith]

The alt key is your friend. It's just a shame that they don't have a toggle for it yet. 

[Bigglesof206]

 

The way I learned how to aim properly is I always presume that the ship is going full speed and use sequential fire to draw a line at a predicted location of the ship and from then on it's easy.

Once you get used to the speeds ships have( usualy IJN CA's are faster than US) you can score good hits and 1 or 2 salvos can help you adjust to the speed if it's lower.

 

I know this was already quoted above, but it's an excellent quick method that works most of the time so I'm repeating it!

Use the tick marks on the range scale, eg against a BB at 18km the last tick is against the stem of the ship for my first shot (for a CA at that range my final tick is at least half to one ship length forward of the stem).

 

Fire your first shot, then correct when you see how close you got. I can generally land a hit or two with my opening shot, so I frequently fire a full salvo, but firing a single turret as a ranging shot is a good move until you get more practised at it - you can usually tell how good your aim has been before the ranging shots land, if they look good then you can fire the rest off before the ranging shots actually land.

 

Dave

 

 

In all cases

[Et_Lanatus_baro]

Unless I can see them in normal viewing range (not zoomed in)but when I am zoomed in I always look at the back of the ship (when applicable) to see the flow of water from the props this can give you a rough indicator of what speed they doing the more flow of water the faster they are going, But if you need to just fire off a single shot and readjust your aim where necessary. Obviously tho if they are coming towards  you or facing you, You can't

[Jexter]

Another good way to gauge speed is to sail straight at constant speed and not move your guns for a few seconds while in bino view, and see how your target moves relative to your reticle (this applies mostly if the target is sailing in a line that is somewhat parallel to yours). Once you have a fair idea of speed, adjust your lead depending on distance and angling, and use the ALT key to fine tune distance depending on whether the enemy ship is getting closer or farther away.

I also adjust my basic lead depending on the ship class, based on the assumption people are moving at full speed most of the time (and knowing the rough top speed of said class).

Most of all, however, with habit and repetition aiming and leading should become a second nature, almost intuitive, because your brain will "remember" similar situations. Having a logical mind and the ability to "visualize" 3 dimensions projected on a 2-dimensional plane helps a lot, too.

 

On a side note, people using aim "assist" are not learning how to aim, because their brain is not doing any of the work involved, and instead relies on blindly following a marker.

[ArrNgee]

For some reason I must have a real good feel for it, seem to hit much more than my enemies

 

[BrusilovX]

For some reason I must have a real good feel for it, seem to hit much more than my enemies

 

Observation is the best way.  Some people are simply able to judge distance and movement better than others.

 

It does help if the enemy does act in a predicable manner.  Some targets are harder to hit than others simply because they are either smaller or can maneouver better than others.

 

[mtm78]

Lead is way easier to judge for me then elevation. Might be because that axis is more compressed ;)

[Maglor_the_rum]

my general rule:

1 use the bar of the binocular view as "compass" to see the ship direction relative to your.

2 shot to find range usually at "half" voyage, when the shot start his descend you can already guess if is hit or not.

3 fire the full salvo, before the target, seeng the leading shot start zig-zag

 

I am curius if the game shall use "dazzle" camo patterns, can be funny on long range shots.
And... alt is generally useless.