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Beastofwar

Shokaku cursed ship ?

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However well i try to play, whatever damage i do ( 90K in screenshot ), this ship loses....a lot.

 

The only other CV that does bad for me is the Graf Zeppelin but the cause of that is obvious to me, im wrestling with its very different then other CV mechanics. I will get the hang of that yet, but the Shokaku is not new, and not very different from other CV...

 

I also see in general statistics of all players it has lower stats, but not as bad as mine.

 

What am i dong wrong ? Please refrain from useless comments like "L2P" and please give some usefull advices or causes if you can.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

What am i dong wrong ? Please refrain from useless comments like "L2P" and give some usefull advices.

Playing inferior CV line, incapable of killing important ships winning.

 

IJN CVs are all about molesting battleships and occasional cruisers. USN are all about doing the same and then nuking DDs for the win. 

 

And seeing 48k avg dmg on her I can't comment otherwise than "L2P" I'm afraid. Go back to Ryujo and earn your torpedo lessons there

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6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Playing inferior CV line, incapable of killing important ships winning.

 

IJN CVs are all about molesting battleships and occasional cruisers with AP bombs, USN are all about doing the same and then nuking DDs for the win. 

 

Maybe it takes too long to kill important ships compared to other CV ? Because i did remove this guy for 62K dmg but it could have taken too damned long as it is obviously 3 launches or more against it...

 

 

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Just now, Beastofwar said:

 

Maybe it takes too long to kill important ships compared to other CV ? Because i did remove this guy but it could have taken too long....

 

 

WG4a.jpg

Since when battleships are important, game deciding factor?

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8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Since when battleships are important, game deciding factor?

 

Well one of ther CV was useless not helping their team ( look at how many of their aircraft were shot by useless attacks on my CV ) and still they won.....DD were killed early in match as usual...what else is there to hit, especially if it is breaking through intending to find and kill your CV ?

 

But that was only one match, could just have been better players thrown in with each other by MM.....but i seem to lose most matches with that ( and GZ ) specifically.

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5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Since when battleships are important, game deciding factor?

This ! that screenshot proves u do not know your target priority's

DD's/ Radar/hydroships first Then u can see whats out there.

Ofc u can go after the isolated BB But if there are other treats out there that is a damage farming descision not a game winning one.

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4 minutes ago, lameoll said:

This ! that screenshot proves u do not know your target priority's

DD's/ Radar/hydroships first Then u can see whats out there.

Ofc u can go after the isolated BB But if there are other treats out there that is a damage farming descision not a game winning one.

 

Why do my other CV not have the same issue then ?

 

That is why i displayed all my T8 CV stats......i could be misplaying the 2 red stat ones ( for GZ that is certain and i know it )  but the others indicate there is not a "L2P" CV issue.

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30 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And seeing 48k avg dmg on her I can't comment otherwise than "L2P" I'm afraid. Go back to Ryujo and earn your torpedo lessons there

 

Do you think ( specificly on IJN ) torpedo acceleration is messing with my torpedoing ? I have to lead the ships a rediculous lot negating all benefits faster topredo's should have ( typically WG balancing it out so does not get powerfull i suppose ) as with this huge lead they are still evading them......the tooltip does not mention this drawback.

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There's nothing wrong with going after the BBs, contrary to what some people might think a well played BB can swing a game. But application of damage when and where it is needed helps secure the win as opposed to just farming.

 

Same deal with spotting. 

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7 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Do you think ( specificly on IJN ) torpedo acceleration is messing with my torpedoing ? I have to lead the ships a rediculous lot negating all benefits faster topredo's shouls have, as with this huge lead they are still evading them

Torpedo Acceleration is really not necessary with IJN torpedos. They're fast enough without it. The torpedo arming time is in seconds, so with Torpedo Acceleration you have to drop then farther away, so the skill doesn't make hitting them home any easier.

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5 minutes ago, asalonen said:

Torpedo Acceleration is really not necessary with IJN torpedos. They're fast enough without it. The torpedo arming time is in seconds, so with Torpedo Acceleration you have to drop then farther away and lead the target more, so it doesn't make hitting them home any easier.

 

Is torpedo arming a set ship stat or influeneced by torpedo acceleration ?

 

If it is a set stat that could be very hampering indeed.....i hate targets evading well aimed torpedos, and this damned ship fires only 2 per attack !......the fact that the Kaga is not hindered by this must be it launches 4 torpedo's and not a mere 2.....could it be the ship features ( and me not being able to adapt to them well ) ?

 

 

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Shokaku and Implacable are the weakest of the T8 bunch when it come to carry potential, especially when uptiered

-try to avoid using rockets on anything except DDs (on IJN CVs)

-practice AP bombing (there was some sheet on reddit what are best targets for IJN AP bombs)

-dont hesitate to torp cruisers, even if you miss, you will force them out of position

-you dont need to attack DDs to get them killed, drop a fighter plane on them and move on (dont AP bomb them ofc)

-always keep an eye on the map for friendly vulnerable ship in good position (DDs in/near caps, cruisers near islands, BBs holding flank..) and drop a plane on them - ppl are still doing stupid things when attacked by CV - Yamato going full broadside to avoid pitiful midway torps etc, they panic, they die - works both ways.

-always save some speed booster for attacks, either to make attack course corrections or to get away quickly

- you can remove enemy ship's spawned fighters with your fighter consumable to prevent them to chase/kill your active squadron - works only on low AA ships or lower tier (i keep doing that to Bismarck with Midway, should work on plenty of T7 on Shokaku)

-practice the rocket drops on DDs with slowing down in turning your squadron, you can manage to turn inside their small/medium AA range and still attack them  - and avoid usually strong long range AA (US or IJN gunboats)

-don't expect to carry T10 with T8 (your team mates will do anyway, such is life, one of the key roles of CV is to take the blame)

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Just now, Beastofwar said:

 

Is torpedo arming a set ship stat or influeneced by torpedo acceleration ?

 

If it is a set stat that could be very hampering indeed.....i hate targets evading well aimed torpedos......the fact that the Kaga is not hindered by this must be it launches 4 torpedo's and not a mere 2.....could it be the ship afterall ?

 

 

Torpedo arming distance is function of torpedo arming time and torpedo speed. So if you tack TA to improve speed, distance is going to increase.

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Just now, Panocek said:

Torpedo arming distance is function of torpedo arming time and torpedo speed. So if you tack TA to improve speed, distance is going to increase.

 

So torpedo acceleration is actually hurting my performance in IJN instead helping ?  As it helps targets to evade far easier.....

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3 minutes ago, RAYvenMP said:

Shokaku and Implacable are the weakest of the T8 bunch when it come to carry potential, especially when uptiered

-try to avoid using rockets on anything except DDs (on IJN CVs)

-practice AP bombing (there was some sheet on reddit what are best targets for IJN AP bombs)

-dont hesitate to torp cruisers, even if you miss, you will force them out of position

-you dont need to attack DDs to get them killed, drop a fighter plane on them and move on (dont AP bomb them ofc)

-always keep an eye on the map for friendly vulnerable ship in good position (DDs in/near caps, cruisers near islands, BBs holding flank..) and drop a plane on them - ppl are still doing stupid things when attacked by CV - Yamato going full broadside to avoid pitiful midway torps etc, they panic, they die - works both ways.

-always save some speed booster for attacks, either to make attack course corrections or to get away quickly

- you can remove enemy ship's spawned fighters with your fighter consumable to prevent them to chase/kill your active squadron - works only on low AA ships or lower tier (i keep doing that to Bismarck with Midway, should work on plenty of T7 on Shokaku)

-don't expect to carry T10 with T8 (your team mates will do anyway, such is life, one of the key roles of CV is to take the blame)

Shokek from my experience is the best for uptiering due to the fastest and sneakiest TB with AP bombs can and will citadel T10 cruisers lacking DFAA and or finger to press it. With proper (ab)use of dmg reduction from attack runs as well island cover you can keep picking on T10, though casualties will eventually follow, especially Yamato as she have actually the best short range AA for farming returning planes. IJN rockets are actually fine for cruiser bashing as they have 28mm HE pen and cruisers are big enough to land most rockets on point

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11 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

So torpedo acceleration is actually hurting my performance in IJN instead helping ?  As it helps targets to evade far easier.....

in case of IJN CV, it will increase arming distance by ~10%, it a trade off - 5 knots speed for ~50m

since Haku 8km torps became trash, i use TA on IJN CVs

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As far as damage numbers go, Shokaku has been good for me. In fact, for me, it's curiously close to Midway. Win rates are very close, with a reasonable sample by now.

I believe it's mostly because with Shokaku the target selection is more limited. I often resort to what could be called damage farming: dumping loads of torps into isolated BB with weak AA, or dropping AP bombs on German BB's. It's something that Shokaku excels at, and especially when uptiered it often feels like the only efficient thing I can do.

 

With the USN CV's I don't feel so limited, and switch targets a lot more. Average damage suffers, but it seems to win games just as well.

 

image.thumb.png.3af703c36875041b4c373edb03d2a132.png

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5 minutes ago, asalonen said:

As far as damage numbers go, Shokaku has been good for me. In fact, for me, it's curiously close to Midway. Win rates are very close, with a reasonable sample by now.

I believe it's mostly because with Shokaku the target selection is more limited. I often resort to what could be called damage farming: dumping loads of torps into isolated BB with weak AA, or dropping AP bombs on German BB's. It's something that Shokaku excels at, and especially when uptiered it often feels like the only efficient thing I can do.

 

With the USN CV's I don't feel so limited, and switch targets a lot more. Average damage suffers, but it seems to win games just as well.

 

image.thumb.png.3af703c36875041b4c373edb03d2a132.png

 

Most of my AP bombs seem to miss, bounce or shatter  coming in from the side, as targets evade, but not coming in bow or stern.

 

Do you have similair experience ? Do you take effort in lining up bow or stern overflying targets in lenght ? Have you got concealement skills to make that easier ?

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2 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Do you take effort in lining up bow or stern overflying targets in lenght ? Have you got concealement skills to make that easier ?

I try to fly along the centerline of the target, whenever possible. It makes it much easier to get multiple citadels.

 

I have both Concealment Expert and Concealment Modification, but it doesn't really make much difference for the dive bombers and attack planes. They can be spotted from far away, even with all concealment buffs. It's the torpedo bombers that make the concealment build so useful for IJN carriers, since their concealment drops down to 6.1 km.

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found her to be a nightmare as well and its my worst tier 8 cv win rate ship with 54%

to me the biggest problem is as others have said its a ship primarily to attack bbs with its good torps

the rocket fighters are meh at best and the ap bombs when they hit are nice but again that's another rng based issue

 

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1 hour ago, asalonen said:

I try to fly along the centerline of the target, whenever possible. It makes it much easier to get multiple citadels.

 

I have both Concealment Expert and Concealment Modification, but it doesn't really make much difference for the dive bombers and attack planes. They can be spotted from far away, even with all concealment buffs. It's the torpedo bombers that make the concealment build so useful for IJN carriers, since their concealment drops down to 6.1 km.

 

Well considering this specific CV  underperforms for me i will respec its captain and modules to concealment then....see if it improves anything. 

 

Late evading enemies when torpedoed could make a noticable difference. If that is the case, thank you very much. It will be refreshing getting usefull advices from the forum, instead of "L2P" or worse.

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2 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

However well i try to play, whatever damage i do ( 90K in screenshot ), this ship loses....a lot.

 

The only other CV that does bad for me is the Graf Zeppelin but the cause of that is obvious to me, im wrestling with its very different then other CV mechanics. I will get the hang of that yet, but the Shokaku is not new, and not very different from other CV...

 

I also see in general statistics of all players it has lower stats, but not as bad as mine.

 

What am i dong wrong ? Please refrain from useless comments like "L2P" and please give some usefull advices or causes if you can.

 

 

 

 

WG1a.jpg

WG3a.jpg

I concur that some ships appear cursed

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30 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

I concur that some ships appear cursed

 

More probably me not adapting to their specific strenghts and weakenesses that simply seems to hinder these ships more the others. That is why i ask for help, and it is refreshing to actually get some useful indications what could be going sub optimal  :Smile_honoring:

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32 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

More probably me not adapting to their specific strenghts and weakenesses that simply seems to hinder these ships more the others. That is why i ask for help, and it is refreshing to actually get some useful indications what could be going sub optimal  :Smile_honoring:

Except in IJN case amount you simply lack option to stomp DDs quickly. You can pester them with rockets, which, granted, gets actually decent on Haku, but unless RNGesus keeps saying "da" repeatedly it will take long time. You can pick off low hp ships, but again, thats something USN can do just fine as well.

 

Besides generic "how to TB", stacking camo to troll Woosters/Minotaurs and throwing dices AP bombs at cruisers and German BBs there isn't really a hattrick to pull off with IJN.

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5 hours ago, Panocek said:

Playing inferior CV line, incapable of killing important ships winning.

 

IJN CVs are all about molesting battleships and occasional cruisers. USN are all about doing the same and then nuking DDs for the win. 

 

And seeing 48k avg dmg on her I can't comment otherwise than "L2P" I'm afraid. Go back to Ryujo and earn your torpedo lessons there

Nah, you just need to learn how to torp DD.

Spoiler

Though Kaga can also just HE bomb the heck out of them.

 

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