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DeviousDave02

AA rework suggestion.

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[TACHA]
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FORWARD:
This idea is entirely a case of IMO - I realize it's probably not to everyone's liking or taste and will in all likely hood be ripped to shreds and have over a dozen flaws pointed out but 'hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained' So please, no - 'OP CV PWEASE NURF/BURN IN A NUCLEAR FIRE' or 'DD CWY BABY, GIT GOOD' comments...

...There's literally a dozen+ (and growing) other threads for that.

 

THE SITUATION:
So after watching dozens of You tube videos on the CV rework game play, playing CV's and lurking on here and the STEAM forum I came to the conclusion that the AA rework, kinda doesn't really work to well.
The issue (IMO)  is that it's entirely damaged based which leads  to awkward game play issues in that some ships have AA that just shreds aircraft while other ships AA would have trouble fighting off a weather balloon.
This leads to an all or nothing approach to AA, either your AA is strong enough to make CV's cry and run away or.. well.. yeah.. the words 'sitting duck' springs to mind. There is no/little in between here as hurting a CV's squadron doesn't really help (or at least feels like it doesn't) as some of the damage still get's through unimpeded AND the CV has more/regenerating planes to throw at you while  you (the surface ship) have finite HP that doesn't come back. 
You end up being chipped to death with (what feels like) no counter play other than turning. 


Of course CV's argue differently as sitting staring at your deck waiting 2 minutes for your lazy hanger crew to ready one ****ing TB plane is pretty vexing (been there)


This leads to the current situation where surface ships want AA to shred, while CV's would rather it just scratched the paintwork slightly and this leads to the 'blobbing' game play everyone knows and hates as everyone groups up around the highest power AA ships and pray to RNGesus that it will protect them.
And then we have the sector reinforcing mechanic, which boosts AA on one side of the ship at the expense of the other side. This highlights the 'damage focus' issue AA has as ships with high AA power don't really need to use this in anything other than extreme circumstances (or if they want that bomber squadron over there to reeeallllyyyy go away) while low power AA ships will not be saved by it as their AA is so weak it really doesn't make much difference (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but at tier 4/5 - reinforcing feels like it does sweet **** all if I'm in a poor AA ship)

 

THE IDEA
Move the value of AA away from just pure damage and blowing planes from the sky, obviously AA focused ships would still be better at AA duty but weaker AA ships should still be able to effectively defend themselves from air attack.
My thoughts on this are to place more emphasis on the correct and skillful use of the reinforcing mechanic to deter air attacks. This could be achieved by toning down AA damage on high power AA ships while boosting AA damage on the really low performing AA ships (with a net loss to AA power), removing the 150% (I think, correct me if wrong) AA damage boost from reinforcing  and then introducing 'perks' or stat changes to the AA system that activate on the side of the ship that has been reinforced.
Note: for this idea to work, ALL ships should be given short range AA, including ship that currently have NO AA (just pretend the crew have ran out on deck with rifles to shoot at the passing planes)

 

PERK IDEAS

Perks would be based around the idea of disrupting an air attack or making accurate striking harder for the CV player if they attack from the reinforced side. 

values given are just rough ideas and subject to change based on feedback.


HEAVY AA: 
Increase RoF by 10%
Increase Flak generation by 50% of maximum Flak
Decrease accuracy by 25%
Barrage - adds an AoE effect to the long range AA zone that deals very low constant damage to aircraft in it - adds graphical effect of mini AA explosions and smoke bursts all over the sky while in this zone - possibly add fake flak clouds above and below the players position.
The idea is that this creates a visual 'wall of doom' that makes flying in that direction unappealing to the CV player by increasing the amount of flak as well as spreading it out more. 
Overall your more likely to clip a plane formation doing some damage but less likely to score a massive blow by having the formation play through multiple Flak clouds at once. 
note: The increased Flak is based off of the Flak generated after modifiers are applied - so if your ship normally generates 8 Flak clouds per attack you would generate 12 Flak clouds on the reinforced side however with captain skills/ship modifications you could in theory up the Flak generated to 10 Flak clouds per attack in which case you would generate 15 Flak clouds clouds on the reinforced side.

MEDIUM AA:
Increased RoF by 10%
Accuracy decreased by 10%
Zero in - for every (x) seconds spent under fire from the reinforced medium AA guns the accuracy/hit chance of these guns increases by 5% topping off at a 50% higher than standard hit chance. This effect will linger on the planes as a de-buff meaning even after you leave the reinforced side it will still apply for a few seconds before negating back to 0% (so if the surface ship swaps reinforced sectors fast enough/turns to put the aircraft back in the sector the medium AA guns will be firing from the value they were at when the planes first left instead of starting from 0% boost again)
Crippling blow - Very, Very low chance per hit of causing the struck plane to immediately break off from the attack/squadron and start to climb to safety before returning to base - aircraft that are forced to break off have a massive damage reduction applied making it far harder for them to be shot down.
The idea here is that medium AA guns create a zone that is very dangerous for aircraft to lurk in as the longer they stay, the more likely they are to get hit and either get shot down or possibly forced to fly back home. This puts a  soft limit on how long a CV's squadron can spend lurking around a ship before it gets into real trouble.

LIGHT AA:

Range increased by 1-2 kilometers
Panic - (same as the old panic effect) short range AA guns cause a panic effect on aircraft within their area of effect. This panic effect causes the targeting reticule to slowly start to expand, becoming less accurate (similar to if the plane was maneuvering during an attack) and reducing accuracy gain. The reticuel will max out at 40 - 50% accuracy (If your below that it will slowly degrade back to this value, if above then it won't decrease any further than this) with maneuvering causing the effect to increase.
Hold the line - Increases Panic effect by 300% and removes the 50% limit allowing accuracy to drop back to 0% against remaining aircraft in a squadron that have just dropped munitions.
The idea here is that short range AA is your ships last line of defense that focuses on reducing the accuracy of an attack against you and gives the best chance for avoiding damage by quick rudder control. (also helps to reduce cheesy drop tactics)

 

CONCLUSION
The overall idea here is to give surface ships the ability to handle air attacks without needing to blow every last plane from the sky, and to allow WG to balance AA without sea-sawing between OP AA and can't shoot down a kite AA by introducing useful perks to reinforced AA that could be further improved with ship modules and Captain perks (I imagine the community could come up with some fun ones)

And hell, you might even consider actually giving the lower tier CV's some teeth so they can hurt things in a reasonable amount of time.

  • Cool 1

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Wrong forum to post "feedback and suggestions", unless you literally bump into S_O, who usually comes here with fire extinguisher to handle dramas

 

I'm not quite fond of RNGesus randomly touching planes and sending them home. Personally I'd leave short/mid range AA as dps only and tie panic effect to flak, coming from DP guns and overlapping with other auras, maybe having minimal distance of 1km or so. Then amount of flak and firing pattern tie to amount of DP guns on board and their reload

 

That and flatten plane hp across the tiers with corresponding AA dps adjusting.

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[JRM]
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I stopped at the "regenerating planes" for all prople still going on about "infinite reserves" pls take a paper write down the base complement and then caclulate how many planes yoh cam regenerate in a battle that lasts up to 20 min, is that number finite or is it infinity?

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[BHSFL]
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Yeah very good points i can agree on up and untill the proposed solutions that i find unacceptable. If you would have said "Because of these flaws rework the AA system to involve player skill making a difference" i would have agreed.

 

Also i see the panic mechanic of old ( RTS ) return a lot as a suggestion. That would ofcourse be very desirable on the receiving end but was a mechanic to throw off a full squadron of AI piloted arcraft launching ALL weapons at you for FULL weapon damage.

 

This is no longer the case, it is only 2-3 aircraft attacking at any time doing considerable lower damage. You can't throw human controlled aircraft  in panic when the player is not in panic.....and removing  control from a player to suggest panic......well that is a deadly game developing sin, only permittabale if it can be avoided ( flashbang in a shooter game ) all together. And thus the better players will avoid it , having no effect.

 

Much of the pressing issues is WG thinking we cannot handle more complex, simultaneous handling. Dumbed down perfectly good mechanics. RTS players moved up to 5 ( or 6 ? )  squadrons and their ship simultaneaously with AI autopilot help and AA could be focussed.  My idea is they rework AA completly, making it player skill driven but not taking the ability away to still fight other ships effectively. And have some faith in players to handle that somewhat higher complex handling simultaneously....because most can. Others with excercise.....

 

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[CHEFT]
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53 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I stopped at the "regenerating planes" for all prople still going on about "infinite reserves" pls take a paper write down the base complement and then caclulate how many planes yoh cam regenerate in a battle that lasts up to 20 min, is that number finite or is it infinity?

 

However, you can never run out of planes...

So i guess, the people who say "infinite" planes, just have a different pov than others. Just seems that people dont like the word itself, even tho it has some truth to it.

Compared to RTS CVs, they had a clear limit on their planes, once they were shot down, it was over, you could have been deplaned very fast (especially midtier CVs), and then you had nothing to do for the rest of the game. New CVs have atleast a chance to do something, even tho the total amount doesnt differ as much.

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[BHSFL]
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4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

However, you can never run out of planes...

So i guess, the people who say "infinite" planes, just have a different pov than others. Just seems that people dont like the word itself, even tho it has some truth to it.

Compared to RTS CVs, they had a clear limit on their planes, once they were shot down, it was over, you could have been deplaned very fast (especially midtier CVs), and then you had nothing to do for the rest of the game. New CVs have atleast a chance to do something, even tho the total amount doesnt differ as much.

 

A squadron of 1-2 aircraft isn't really usable.....it is quite obvious AA damage is spread over all aircraft in a squadron, and if there are only 2-3 aircraft to take it .....zap...zap ...dead.

 

With the right captain skill and module it is somewhat difficult to deplane yourself, but left with 2-3 aircraft per squadron handicaps you asif you lost all aircraft......."infinite aircraft".......right.....

 

 

 

 

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[-OOF-]
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6 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

A squadron of 1-2 aircraft isn't really usable.....it is quite obvious AA damage is spread over all aircraft in a squadron, and if there are only 2-3 aircraft to take it .....zap...zap ...dead.

 

With the right captain skill and module it is somewhat difficult to deplane yourself, but left with 2-3 aircraft per squadron handicaps you asif you lost all aircraft......."infinite aircraft".......right.....

 

 

 

 

But planes will still regenerate at some point, so technically you do have "infinite planes" by definition. Same thing about ammo and torps. Now if you have them on demand and can always use them is a different matter entirely.

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[JRM]
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No you see you dont, becouse there is a VERY finite number of planes you can field in a battle, if the planes regenerated (all of them) in the moment they are lost so you can always field a full sqadron you MIGHT call it infinite planes (aldough even then it wouldnt be true in itself but ok, semantics) but since they regenerate ONE AT A TIME that regeneration can and in fact will lag behind severely if you are reckless making your striking potential null and void, only thing these "endless planes" acctually change is the fact that before when you were depleted you litteraly couldnt do :etc_swear: anymore and now you still have something to do until the end of battle, sometimes you might pop some very low and plucked ship that is sailing around yes but in most cases that you end up deplaned it will be already 4-6 red ships vs you and those 2-3 plane squads wont save you or the battle, when you end up deplaned it is usually becouse you had to throw planes at impossible odds to try to turn a crumbling team and battle

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