USS Washington (BB-56) - a good idea for Tier 7 premium BB?

[HussarKaz]

During the WW2 there was not many battleship clashes in the Pacific. One of them was the second battle of Guadalcanal.

It is a pity that this kind of clash is currently impossible in WOWS. Kongo-class BBs are Tier 5, while North Carolina is Tier 8. It is impossible for them to meet each other.

 

I see a nice solution for this problem - adding USS Washington, which would be simply a stock North Carolina, as a premium ship on Tier 7. It would be easy and require minimum developers' work. Typical AA castration would not be necessary due to the fact the ship would be balanced itself with its quite weak armor. Sigma should be 1.8 to give it significantly different playstyle than Colorado. More agile (28 knots), protected by 32 mm plating would perform much better than Colorado in close-range combat. Colorado will be superior in long-range sniping.

 

USS Washington was one of two first North Carolina-class battleships. Launched in 1940, she had a typical pros and cons of North Carolina-class battleships. It was one of the first US Navy ships to be equipped with fully operational radar (WG can add this feature). Her most famous action was the night battle of Guadalcanal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Washington_(BB-56)#Naval_Battle_of_Guadalcanal during which she saved badly damaged, chased USS South Dakota from being sunk. During that battle, USS Washington landed many direct hits on IJN Kirishima, which went down next morning.

[Bics93]

13 minuti fa, HussarKaz ha scritto:

It would be easy and require minimum developers' work. Typical AA castration would not be necessary due to the fact the ship would be balanced itself with its quite weak armor. Sigma should be 1.8 to give it significantly different playstyle than Colorado. More agile (28 knots), protected by 32 mm plating

 

First, as a tier 7 it should have 25mm plating as all tier 7 BB are overmatchable by 380mm.

Then take Ashitaka and Amagi: to bring Amagi guns at tier 7 Ashitaka loses almost all AA, main belt thickness and the precious turtleback, it also has reduced fire rate and slower turret traverse.

So no, I don’t think a ship of this class is suited for tier 7, not without a fantasy retro-fitting like WG has done with Ashitaka.

[Panocek]

13 minutes ago, Bics93 said:

 

First, as a tier 7 it should have 25mm plating as all tier 7 BB are overmatchable by 380mm.

Then take Ashitaka and Amagi: to bring Amagi guns at tier 7 Ashitaka loses almost all AA, main belt thickness and the precious turtleback, it also has reduced fire rate and slower turret traverse.

So no, I don’t think a ship of this class is suited for tier 7, not without a fantasy retro-fitting like WG has done with Ashitaka.

Umm, both ships have their "turtleback", difference is Amagi have citadel lowered and/or sits deeper in the water.

[HussarKaz]

25 minutes ago, Bics93 said:

 

First, as a tier 7 it should have 25mm plating as all tier 7 BB are overmatchable by 380mm.

Then take Ashitaka and Amagi: to bring Amagi guns at tier 7 Ashitaka loses almost all AA, main belt thickness and the precious turtleback, it also has reduced fire rate and slower turret traverse.

So no, I don’t think a ship of this class is suited for tier 7, not without a fantasy retro-fitting like WG has done with Ashitaka.

It should be at least 27 mm for many reasons, the most important is incoming Sinop with its absurdly powerful armor.

The 27/32 mm plating would also make it quite unique Tier 7 BB, perfect for tanking - of course this feature will have to be balanced with some cons, like for example poor torpedo protection, turning radius, 1.8 sigma and average gun range (the last one may be done with quite simple way - WG can give USS Washington a radar consumable instead of a recon aircraft)

[fumtu]

USS Washington could be a nice T7 premium in her late 1942 configuration, during the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. This would mean significantly worse AA then NC. This would mean 6 quad 1.1inch (28mm) mounts and 35 20mm Oerlikon guns.

[HaachamaShipping]

Ah yes, I can totally see how a 1.8 sigma (so, average accuracy) with 9 T8 guns, T8 armour plating and a 28 knot speed is totally balanced at T7...

 

How about bloody hell no? And no, Sinop is not an excuse for this.

[HussarKaz]

8 minutes ago, fumtu said:

USS Washington could be a nice T7 premium in her late 1942 configuration, during the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. This would mean significantly worse AA then NC. This would mean 6 quad 1.1inch (28mm) mounts and 35 20mm Oerlikon guns.

 

6 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Ah yes, I can totally see how a 1.8 sigma (so, average accuracy) with 9 T8 guns, T8 armour plating and a 28 knot speed is totally balanced at T7...

 

How about bloody hell no? And no, Sinop is not an excuse for this.

So let's consider 27 mm plating - 406 mm bullets will overmatch, but 381 will not. It will be a quite unique feature at Tier 7.

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

 

So let's consider 27 mm plating - 406 mm bullets will overmatch. It will be quite unique feature at Tier 7.

Absolutely no reason to not go 25 mm. Nine 406 mm guns and a 28 knot speed are already a strong enough combination. It'd basically be a Nelson that changes superheal for guns that can pen stuff, which imo would already make the ship one of the most insane T7s in the game. Even at that state I'd find it incredibly OP and wouldn't want it in the game.

[HussarKaz]

25 is overmatched by anything above T7, making the playstyle against T8s and T9s boring - tanking is impossible.

32 could be OP, I fully agree, it need to be tested.

27 is a reasonable option, giving it a possibility to play more offensively even while at the bottom tier - and at the same time making the ship vulnerable for 406 mm guns barrage, which forces a wise playstyle. Remember that 406s are now present even at tier 6 and very common at T7.

[Tyrendian89]

8 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

25 is overmatched by anything above T7, making the playstyle against T8s and T9s boring - tanking is impossible.

welcome to pretty much every other T7 BB.

 

30 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

WG can give USS Washington a radar consumable instead of a recon aircraft

this makes me think you are either trolling, or you are so dense the Event Horizon Telescope could've probably just been pointed at you...

[HaachamaShipping]

6 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

25 is overmatched by anything above T7, making the playstyle against T8s and T9s boring - tanking is impossible.

32 could be OP, I fully agree, it need to be tested.

27 is a reasonable option, giving it a possibility to play more offensively even while at the bottom tier - and at the same time making the ship vulnerable for 406 mm guns barrage, which forces a wise playstyle. Remember that 406s are now present even at tier 6 and very common at T7.

Ah yeah, because I guess Nagato, Colorado, Nelson, Lyon, KGV, they all are underpowered with their 25 mm plating. Every T7 has to deal with the issue of potentially getting overmatched, your Washington is nothing special. Even its citadel does not compare to Nelson that frequently gets citpenned through the bow. Sorry, but that's how it goes, T7, 25 mm armour. Want your 32 mm, go to T8. West Virginia at T6 pretty much gave up a ton of hp (both in terms of the hp pool and repair party), a good bit of mobility, basically all AA, improved accuracy, torpedo protection, range, just so it could retain the punchy guns of Colorado at T6. And look there, it's one of the highest-performing T6 BBs. 

[dasCKD]

3 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

this makes me think you are either trolling, or you are so dense the Event Horizon Telescope could've probably just been pointed at you...

He didn't say which radar. She could get a 6 km radar with 20 second operational time that can spot only BBs and CVs :P

[HussarKaz]

15 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

welcome to pretty much every other T7 BB.

So what? Premium ship has to offer unique playstyle or it is not necessary in the game.

Anyway, look at the Sinop - it will be effective as hell in tanking.

 

The second part of your post will be left ignored, you can quarrel like this with your friends at kindergarten.

 

13 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Ah yeah, because I guess Nagato, Colorado, Nelson, Lyon, KGV, they all are underpowered with their 25 mm plating. Every T7 has to deal with the issue of potentially getting overmatched, your Washington is nothing special. Even its citadel does not compare to Nelson that frequently gets citpenned through the bow. Sorry, but that's how it goes, T7, 25 mm armour. Want your 32 mm, go to T8. West Virginia at T6 pretty much gave up a ton of hp (both in terms of the hp pool and repair party), a good bit of mobility, basically all AA, improved accuracy, torpedo protection, range, just so it could retain the punchy guns of Colorado at T6. And look there, it's one of the highest-performing T6 BBs. 

>say 27 mm several times
>HURR DURR YOU WANT 32 MM GO TO T8
omg

 

Still, the proposed Washington will be of course inferior to even stock North Carolina, with for example much worse sigma value. 25 mm plating is a nonsense - would you buy an another T7 battleship overmatched at any angle by T8 and T9 rivals? I don't think so. I agree with you that 32 may be too tough. 27 would be unique and it is to be considered.

[dasCKD]

9 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

So what? Premium ship has to offer unique playstyle or it is not necessary in the game.

"It's better than its competitor in every way" is not a playstyle. It's pay to win and WG should be doing EVERYTHING to curb it. 1.8 is excellent sigma for a tier 7 battleship, meaning that she shall excel in both close quarters and ranged combat. Radar on a tier 7 battleship is utterly insane. Radar in the game exists only on tier 7 cruisers and arguably shouldn't exist even on them.

[fumtu]

10 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

So what? Premium ship has to offer unique playstyle or it is not necessary in the game.

Anyway, look at the Sinop - it will be effective as hell in tanking.

 

Premium ship don't have to offer unique playstyle. Some of them do but not all of them. Also premium don't have to be better than its regular counterpart. Washington at T7 wouldn't need radar or 27mm bow. 25mm is standard BB plating at that tier. With 9 guns, 6 of them in front, she is already offering somewhat different playstyle then Colorado. With some other small changes, maybe additional consumable she should be good.

 

Sinop still have 25mm upper bow plating. Also close range engagement is kind off a standard gimmick of Soviet BBs and that's why their lower bow plating is better armoured.

[HussarKaz]

9 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

"It's better than its competitor in every way" is not a playstyle. It's pay to win and WG should be doing EVERYTHING to curb it. 1.8 is excellent sigma for a tier 7 battleship, meaning that she shall excel in both close quarters and ranged combat. Radar on a tier 7 battleship is utterly insane. Radar in the game exists only on tier 7 cruisers and arguably shouldn't exist even on them.

Well, for example Colorado and Nagato have 2.0

North Carolina, one tier higher has 2.0

I think 1.8 would be just fine.

Washington, even with 27 mm plating would't be better armored than Sinop  which armor is insane.

[Solo_Wing_Potato]

10 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

So what? Premium ship has to offer unique playstyle or it is not necessary in the game.

 

It would already offer a unique play style at T7 with both speed and the 406’s layout making it quite different to any US BB in the main line up to that point.  You add in 27/32mm bow armour and you make the ship significantly stronger than the other BB’s at it’s tier.  Especially when you add the fact that T7 ships mostly end up top tier.  Also  Sinop can’t be used as a measuring stick as it’s a WiP and likely to change.  I think the general consensus is that the ship is to powerful in its current iteration.

[HussarKaz]

5 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

Premium ship don't have to offer unique playstyle. Some of them do but not all of them. Also premium don't have to be better than its regular counterpart. Washington at T7 wouldn't need radar or 27mm bow. 25mm is standard BB plating at that tier. With 9 guns, 6 of them in front, she is already offering somewhat different playstyle then Colorado. With some other small changes, maybe additional consumable she should be good.

 

Sinop still have 25mm upper bow plating. Also close range engagement is kind off a standard gimmick of Soviet BBs and that's why their lower bow plating is better armoured.

It has, but the entire citadel is protected by the armor belt which is over 100.

[fumtu]

10 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

It has, but the entire citadel is protected by the armor belt which is over 100.

 

Sinop still could be citadeled if show broadside. Personally I would prefer to keep 2.0 sigma with standard BB T7 armour then sacrifice small increase in tankines for accuracy. Sinop work because of increased accuracy on the close range, Washington with standard BB accuracy wouldn't work on the same way. Tanking is not everything. She could be make interesting on other ways.

[CptBarney]

So washingmachine is op in AL as well as wows (if she every arrives) noice.

 

I guess the increased armour would make an interesting premium, but she will focused more often by cruisers because of it i guess.

 

if it were to have mostly 27 with 32 in some areas i guess a HP nerf and maybe a turn rate nerf would be in order (maybe an AA nerf as well?)

 

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

HiI all,

 

2 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

During the WW2 there was not many battleship clashes in the Pacific. One of them was the second battle of Guadalcanal.

It is a pity that this kind of clash is currently impossible in WOWS. Kongo-class BBs are Tier 5, while North Carolina is Tier 8. It is impossible for them to meet each other.

 

I see a nice solution for this problem - adding USS Washington, which would be simply a stock North Carolina, as a premium ship on Tier 7. It would be easy and require minimum developers' work. Typical AA castration would not be necessary due to the fact the ship would be balanced itself with its quite weak armor. Sigma should be 1.8 to give it significantly different playstyle than Colorado. More agile (28 knots), protected by 32 mm plating would perform much better than Colorado in close-range combat. Colorado will be superior in long-range sniping.

 

USS Washington was one of two first North Carolina-class battleships. Launched in 1940, she had a typical pros and cons of North Carolina-class battleships. It was one of the first US Navy ships to be equipped with fully operational radar (WG can add this feature). Her most famous action was the night battle of Guadalcanal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Washington_(BB-56)#Naval_Battle_of_Guadalcanal during which she saved badly damaged, chased USS South Dakota from being sunk. During that battle, USS Washington landed many direct hits on IJN Kirishima, which went down next morning.

 

I still  have 1:400 "Washington" diorama since I was around 12-13!

 

BTWI made my "goal" to have every WoWs ship that I have as diorama... so...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[Cambera_1]

55 minutes ago, Ace_Rimmer01 said:

Especially when you add the fact that T7 ships mostly end up top tier.

You seem to be playing a different T7 to me. I get far more Mid and Bottom tier than top tier.

But I take your point that this proposal would be murder for T5, but I believe that to be the OP's intention.

[HussarKaz]

50 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

Sinop still could be citadeled if show broadside. Personally I would prefer to keep 2.0 sigma with standard BB T7 armour then sacrifice small increase in tankines for accuracy. Sinop work because of increased accuracy on the close range, Washington with standard BB accuracy wouldn't work on the same way. Tanking is not everything. She could be make interesting on other ways.

Keep 2.0 sigma on Tier 7 with 3x3 406 mm guns? It would be a weapon of mass destruction  no matter of plating thickness.

 

I would definitely buy it 

[fumtu]

9 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

Keep 2.0 sigma on Tier 7 with 3x3 406 mm guns? It would be a weapon of mass destruction  no matter of plating thickness.

 

I would definitely buy it 

 

What I want to say for improved armour you need to sacrifice something and usually DPM is one that suffer either by longer reload, abysmal turret traverse or sigma and dispersion. And WG really love use sigma when things needs to be balanced. I personally would choose accuracy over tankines as 25mm could be somewhat negated by positioning and angling, crap accuracy on the other side is much harder to compensate.

[HussarKaz]

Just now, fumtu said:

 

What I want to say for improved armour you need to sacrifice something and usually DPM is one that suffer either by longer reload, abysmal turret traverse or sigma and dispersion. And WG really love use sigma when things needs to be balanced. I personally would choose accuracy over tankines as 25mm could be somewhat negated by positioning and angling, crap accuracy on the other side is much harder to compensate.

Indeed, but still I don't think WG will ever introduce a craft with such deadly firepower on Tier 7.