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dubsy1021

RN Battlecruiser Tree

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So I have been thinking recently about how to do a Royal Navy battlecruiser tree, and how their performance would be, and I've come to some ideas. So firstly, general performance. I think the main 'gimmick' would be basing their hull performance closer to a cruiser than a battleship. This would reflect their origin as a cruiser killer based off of an armoured cruiser type hull. So what do I mean by this? Firstly, better rudder shift. This allows them to stay closer to the battle, in tune with their speed, and dodge torpedoes, staying alive. Secondly, better concealment, again allowing a closer presence. This would allow them to become more orientated around cruiser support, as opposed to a more long range traditional BB role. The trade off is of course weakness to battleship fire and probably lower HP

So how would I do the tiers?
Well, start at tier 3. HMS Invincible is a fairly obvious pick. The first battlecruiser. Compared to the Bellerophon, you sacrifice armour and a turret for speed, along with the previous features I mentioned. Interestingly, despite 1 fewer turrets, the ship allows LIMITED cross deck firing, so it is possible to get an 8 gun broadside (similar to the Kaiser, if any of you are familiar with that ship). Another possibility is the Indefatigable class, which was very similar. Basically it allowed better cross deck firing angles, and had other slight improvements. Invincible.thumb.jpg.4cf9c34f69a716eeda78b138ebbd0dcd.jpg
HMS Inflexible, an Invincible class

Tier 4 is where things get a little interesting with my choices. Some people seem to be of the opinion that there should only be 1 13.5 inch BC, with the rather weak 6 gun 15 inch Renown at T5  then a merger, or something similar. However, I suggest sticking with 13.5 inchers from 4 to 5. This follows the battleship precendant, and stays with the theme of a smaller main armament and less armour for more speed compared to the same tier British battleship. So the lower pick would be Lion. This class were the first 13.5 inch battlecruisers, with an improved speed and thicker armour.
Lion.jpg.8921a7e6344be848edff9e2ada237178.jpg
HMS Lion

Then at tier 5, HMS Tiger. This ship is very comparable to the Kongos, both being improved Lions (fun fact the first Kongo was built in Britain). It has far better rear firing angles for the mid turret (on Lion there's a second superstructure obstructing firing, Tiger was refitted to have full rear firing - this presents an interesting hull upgrade option). It also had 6 inch secondaries rather than 4 inch, and is slightly faster. Basically, it is to the Lions as the Iron Dukes are to the Orions. Comparing it to the Kongo, I am aware this is a potential issue for some people. Smaller guns and slower speed. However, I disagree. Firstly, the speed is only 2kn slower. Secondly, the armour is thicker on Tiger. Finally, the 13.5 inch is very comparable to the Vickers 14 incher. The 13.5 is certainly a little worse, however not significantly, and its higher trajectory makes it more effective against deck armour, a considerable advantage at this tier when ships do not have very thick decks. Also, I think it would be reasonable to give the ship a WWII refit. This could vary in significance a lot. The minimum would be better AA, like the German BBs of this tier. It could extend further though. The Kongos were refitted with better armour and better boilers giving a higher top speed. Why not give the Tiger a speed boost? It's a reasonable upgrade. The most outlandish possibility is replacing the 13.5 inch guns with 14 inch guns as fitted to the KGVs. The 14 inch gun was actually designed to fit in the 13.5 inch mounts, interestingly, so it does have some basis in reality and could quite possibly have happened if the ship had stuck around.

Tiger.thumb.jpg.7f5fc388cf1b68a3cce969a39ff7cbea.jpg
HMS Tiger, showing the better firing angles on the rear turret


Moving on, Renown at tier 6. A faster Revenge class with 6 15 inch guns, and hideously thin armour. A 6 inch thick belt. This thing is a real glass cannon. But at 32 knots, with decent firing angles and less of a reliance on broadsiding (2/3 of main guns are forward firing), it should be OK. No trouble on AA, the Renown got right through WWII so a decent armament got on, along with some neat secondary 4.5 inchers and the octopoidal superstructure.

renown.jpg.dc4e735ed22ce7e827582c9db3316268.jpg

HMS Renown in refitted condition

Tier 7 is where I think the line should merge back in with the BBs. This tier would have the final battlecruiser. Hood as a premium creates an issue, but I have a solution. The original Admiral class design. This would mean a very fast ship with 32kn +. The Admiral had a much better belt than Renown, with 12 inches at 12 degrees. This is actually comparable to the Iowa at close ranges (lesser angle, but this has little effect at close range), so perfectly well protected. The deck armour is really not anything to write home about, but the ship is intended to fight at closer ranges, so this shouldn't be a giant issue. The AA could be modelled off of Hood, or given a more generous WWII refit. The ship would look very similar to Hood, though probably sitting a little higher in the water. 
Hood.thumb.jpg.bf41cb9bf0c4b3812e5bfa4db81e3db3.jpg
HMS Hood. The Admiral would look very similar.
The reason for a Tier 7 merge is twofold. Firstly, I cannot think of a T8. Secondly, from the KGV and beyond, the battleships get faster and make the idea of a battlecruiser a bit obsolete. 
However,  if a candidate for T8 can be found, and is used (likely one of the worse designs from the studies that led to the G3s and N3s), the T9 would probably be a G3, with a modernised AA set up. This is a fast, well armoured and fairly well armed ship, a true fast battleship, so I personally would not really recommend it, it would not fit with the line well and be too similar to the Lion.

So what are people's thoughts on my suggestions?

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Agree with your choices, I think WG would put Indefatigable at 3 in the tree with Invincible as a premium, similar to what they did with Dreadnought, having the revolutionary one as the premium. 

 

More or less Identical to what I'd suggest though, mine would be : Indefatigable at 3, Queen Mary at 4 (As name Lion is already used), Tiger at 5, Renown 6, Admiral 7, I would then do J3 at 8, G3 at 9 and K3 at 10

 

With Invincible and Repulse as premiums, many argue Repulse for 6, personally I'd put her at 5.

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Well I don't think the Lion name is much of an issue, it's not like the ships have overlapping matchmaking brackets, so you couldn't really get confused. A T6 would be the highest to face Lion (BC), but too low to face Lion (BB). Still, Queen Mary would work fine at 4, so there's no reason why not to go with that.
Repulse at 5 makes sense. At least worse AA, and worse fire control, and possibly in her original configuration, worse armour as well.

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I am believed wows doesn't need more paper ships. After Admiral in Tier 7 the battlecruiser line should merge with battleship line - go into Monarch at Tier 8.

 

Anyway, the battlecruiser line is what I am waiting for.

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15 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

I am believed wows doesn't need more paper ships. After Admiral in Tier 7 the battlecruiser line should merge with battleship line - go into Monarch at Tier 8.

 

Anyway, the battlecruiser line is what I am waiting for.

I'm not sure about this merger idea. Sure it keeps the dreaded paper ships away (though that is pointless by now, take a look at basically any other line of ships), but supposing someone chose the battlecruiser line because they prefer that style of play to the slower, HE-slinging battleships? Why limit them to T7 maximum? Also, it should be considered that there could be little incentive to play this line, unless you really, really want to skip Queen Liz and KGV. If it went through to T10, it is a line that can stand on ts own two feet, so may seem more enticing to grind.

 

I'd like this battlecruiser line if it focused on using AP more than HE, so use the standard fuse time for AP at the cost of quarter pen HE (give it the standard 1/6 pen). I think this could make them good kiting ships, and very nice for making hit-and-run attacks on slower battleships. Maybe trial a reload booster for them, if it wouldn't be too OP or similar to the French line.  Also, they could run down cruisers pretty well too :Smile_hiding:.

 

This of course would get balanced By any [edited]-up ending in massive damage from basically any ship. Maybe only give the high tier ships 30mm plating, so they are a little squishy compared to battleships of the same tier?

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Invincible should have some sort of consumable which temporarily increases its rate of fire while sacrificing accuracy.

 

Oh and, if it gets hit by battleship AP while the consumable is active it will instantly detonate.

 

It could be called "Open magazine doors" or something...

 

----

 

On a serious note, I'd really like to see this battlecruiser line in the game - and I'd definitely take it all the way to tier 10 using the cancelled "G3 class" as a base for T8, T9 and T10.

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1 hour ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Why limit them to T7 maximum?

It's simple. Battlecruisers became a totally outdated class during WW2, while quick battleships like Iowa appeared.

 

Pre-dreadnoughts also end at Tier 2, it would make no sense to create entire line of pre-dreadnought BBs, even if there were some projects applicable to higher tiers.

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I do think the main issue with the G3 is that in some ways it is actually armoured better than Lion, at tier 9. The Lion has 5" deck armour, but for much of the ship the G3 has 8". Of course it does have the section that is worse protected, but that is only in comparison, that section is still comparable to Bismarck in thickness. The G3 is a true fast battleship. So making it squishy from hull plating ignores the point.

 

I realise ending it at 7 would annoy some players, but I envision the line as somewhat of an experienced player's pursuit anyway. Another ship to research sideways at tier 3, which will probably appeal less to new players than the Bellerophon due to being less up front powerful. I don't imagine a lot of people will go through the battlecruiser route, then rejoin to get to tier 10 first time, and a veteran would not be irritated to see it come back together at Monarch. But if you still think it is an issue, an opportunity to help to solve the rather bumpy join could be making the Admiral class more of a halfway house, which would make a lot of sense, since the modified Hood ended up as a fast battleship. 

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