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GulvkluderGuld

ADD DD COUNTERPLAY to CV

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13 minutes ago, Alelos said:

A good DD player never push alone without help. 

Let me guess, you only play in a a 3 man tryhard div?

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1 hour ago, Alelos said:

A good DD player never push alone without help.

Sometimes you have to. And you still have better tools than any other ship class to do this. The question is whether taking a cap (and likely losing your ship in the process) is worth the trade.

 

While all the advice about working with cruisers and AA ships is good, it's all dependent on other players understanding your needs and helping you - sometimes they just won't - and then you've got to fall back on your own resources. That means some lines of DDs are much more attractive than others - the upcoming French ones are likely to be particularly tricky vs CVs if they lack smoke and decent AA.

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1 hour ago, MK1D said:

Let me guess, you only play in a a 3 man tryhard div?

Prolly 1 Midway, 1 Montana and 1 Gearing./Grozovoi. :) 

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20 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

My Tier 6 Furious have no problems what-so-ever killing DDs on its own. Rockets and for some dds, torps, work just fine. 

How many DD would you say you kill on average with the Furious?

20 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Tier 8 Lexington vs DDs is no contest. Dont make me laugh. 

I'm guessing you kill lots and lots of DD with the lexington then?

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Yugumu was nothing but a toy to play with for the red cv even before the rework. In that sense nothing has changed and carriers have been broken ever since the game has been released.

 

What is now annoying for me: Good post-rework T10 CVs don't care about my DD's Def AA consumable.  And in case I find the enemy CV I can't burn him down anymore because the fires expire after a couple of seconds:Smile_sad:

 

So 

Spoiler

HeYIxyQ.jpg

 

 

(And stop playing IJN torp boat line)

 

 

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6 hours ago, dd__dd said:

 

No offense, might sound harsh but truth to be told sometimes helps and you tend to comment in such a condescending way for no reason you need to be brought back to earth.

 

I doubt that you are having „no problems killing DDs on your own whatsoever“ or that an encounter of us „will make you laugh“. Your average killrate on CVs of 1,01 is on the lower end on the scale for this class as are the other statistical aspects.

 

The stats of your DDs imply that you don‘t really know how to play them. You overall got more than 11k matches and your stats might be green and blue sometimes, but given the experience to be expected on such a scale of games and that stats are relative to the whole player base which consists bots, one/short time players, little kids, fun players not intending to perform in any kind of matter players, your stats aren’t impressive at all.

 

A competent DD player really knowing what he is doing could top all your DD outputs on stock boats with a 3pt captain and no modules attached.

I'm sorry if my reply to your post came across condescending. It wasn't meant to be. 

It was meant to be quick, which can sometimes seem that way. Don't make me laugh was about the Lexi DBs which are currently featured as broken on YT by Ichase (exploit) so I figured we didnt need to discuss those.

 

Maybe you should look into the mirror before writing up such a condescending post of your own.

Now stat-bashing while hiding behind a new account instead of sticking with the topic? (at least get the stats right - the recent ones are purple)

image.thumb.png.ba9d76c0d247f44955cdde77a55b6e83.png

 

As to CVs, I'll happily admit my stats are terrible, as I have only a few games in them. Enough to grasp the potential, but not enough to replicate what a good CV player just did to me. Killing dds take me a lot of time so why would i take you on in a unpracticed class? You asked if I could kill a dd in a random battle? Arn't you forgetting one thing: I don't need to be the one killing it. All a CV has to do is hang a plane over the DD and the team will shoot it. Afterall the point of this thread is about the lack of counters to permaspotting, eg. #MakeFightersGreatAgain. 

 

3 hours ago, Alelos said:

A good DD player never push alone without help. And here you can see that he is completely sailing away from cap in the open. Where do you see really the good play and push on him? And a good player as well with good attitude will never start posting threads and flaming others for his own mistakes which they are clear from those failed screenshots. Even if your team is is misplaying you should never flame them. This post is an huge fail. If I was him I would have been embarrassed and delete this thread.

Where in my post do you see me blame or flame the team?

You can't find an example, because that isn't the point of the thread. So please stick with the topic 

 

This thread is about CV vs DD interaction in different scenarios: 

 

1) damage potential of so-.called "useless" rocket planes is very much intact vs. a mispositioned DD. Smoking up was detrimental to assessing the damage potential of the CV against an isolated DD, thus I only used maneuverability and AA.

2) Whether hiding in friendly AA makes the DD safe (nope)

3) whether smoke can save a DD (nope, as the CV just camps on top of it untill it ends).

 

1 hour ago, Xevious_Red said:

How many DD would you say you kill on average with the Furious?

I'm guessing you kill lots and lots of DD with the lexington then?

Please see above with regards to my own CV stats. 

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26 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

1) damage potential of so-.called "useless" rocket planes is very much intact vs. a mispositioned DD. Smoking up was detrimental to assessing the damage potential of the CV against an isolated DD, thus I only used maneuverability and AA.

 

There is only one big issue with this conclusion:

You went up against an Enterprise. Enterprise RFs are the best in the game against DDs to the point where they can even give Midway DBs a run for their money depending on RNG because they weren't nerfed nearly as hard as the rest. You could even argue that the RF nerf really didn't affect her at all.

So it's more like damage potential of Enterprise RFs remains ludicrous against DDs. RFs of other CVs aren't nearly as powerful or consistent. I believe the only other CV that can even think about contesting her in this is Indomitable but that ship is still in testing.

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37 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Please see above with regards to my own CV stats. 

That's fine, I dont mind what people's stats are.

 

However by making claims that you have no problem what so ever killing DD on your own in the furious, when actually you have played 1 game in random, 1 game in coop and didnt sink anything in either, it weakens your own arguement because it makes you look like you're less interested in a honest discussion and more interested in pushing a narrative.

 

For what its worth I think that CV's are too good at finding DD, particularly those that rely on stealth rather than AA to avoid planes, and have always been an advocate for removing the detected symbol from planes, as this is far too useful for squadrons that can whizz around the map at 200+kn

CV should keep the detected symbol for their hull, but not their planes.

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38 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

There is only one big issue with this conclusion:

You went up against an Enterprise. Enterprise RFs are the best in the game against DDs to the point where they can even give Midway DBs a run for their money depending on RNG because they weren't nerfed nearly as hard as the rest. You could even argue that the RF nerf really didn't affect her at all.

So it's more like damage potential of Enterprise RFs remains ludicrous against DDs. RFs of other CVs aren't nearly as powerful or consistent. I believe the only other CV that can even think about contesting her in this is Indomitable but that ship is still in testing.

Certainly a good point, and one I couldn't make up my mind about as I dont have the Enterprise (or plan to get one).

 

I thought the primary nerf was to air spotting range of DDs, and while I did read there was penalty added to aiming time for RF, it looked secondary. 

Also I'm not practiced enough with all nations to asses just how much it affected each nation - my read was USN TiTs were largely unaffected, while IJN was hit hard (no DBs to compensate).

RN wasn't out so I guess moot point. The Furious rockets seem to work fine for me, just like RN TBs seem stupidly good (must drop point blank tho).

 

Still the damage potential for RFs was left untouched and no method was added to "shoo" them away like RTS fighters.

Honestly I'm gonna have to eat my own words from pre-rework. RTS was the better concept to balance. This new stuff is a nightmare to balance, because of the shallowness of CV play.

There is no CV vs CV element as far as I can see, just a race for damage. And the surface ship vs CV interaction is diminished aswell (basically reduced to reinforcement or not).

36 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

That's fine, I dont mind what people's stats are.

 

However by making claims that you have no problem what so ever killing DD on your own in the furious, when actually you have played 1 game in random, 1 game in coop and didnt sink anything in either, it weakens your own arguement because it makes you look like you're less interested in a honest discussion and more interested in pushing a narrative.

 

For what its worth I think that CV's are too good at finding DD, particularly those that rely on stealth rather than AA to avoid planes, and have always been an advocate for removing the detected symbol from planes, as this is far too useful for squadrons that can whizz around the map at 200+kn

CV should keep the detected symbol for their hull, but not their planes.

Thank you for discussing at least partially, the point of this thread, which is really about CV (perma) spotting.
I do want to push that narrative in the sense that I want a discussion about it. For that I dont need to have good CV skills, all I need to prove is I can find a DD and keep it permaspotted with fighters /return with next strike to spot it.

I have played some dozen games in the new CVs and I can hit dds, but this isn't primarily about CV damage to DDs or who can kill whom (despite many attempts to twist the topic into that).

 

It is about changing the interaction of DDs and CVs to make permaspotting more difficult and costly, because there isnt currently any active counterplay to spotting apart from the figher consumable and CVs hardly lose planes from spotting DDs.

The how is up for discussion. 

What I propose is creating windows where CVs can spot DDs either by introducing active CV vs CV mechanics to deny said spotting, or by other means (buffs/nerfs to CVs or DDs, or reintroducing DFAA as a windowed no-fly zone)

 

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8 hours ago, 22cm said:

Prolly 1 Midway, 1 Montana Conqueror and 1 Gearing./Grozovoi. :) 

FTFY... :Smile_playing::Smile_trollface::Smile_izmena:

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