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GulvkluderGuld

ADD DD COUNTERPLAY to CV

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Those guys are by far the hardest ones to find, though, so the DDs more likely to get hit are the ones who push caps and do other stuff DDs are supposed to.

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[IDDQD]
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CVs or not, lets talk about a real problem - majority of the playerbase is so terrible that most games are decided in first 3mins

ppl with 10k games making such mistakes my dog would learn to avoid after 100, how is that even possible, where is the evolution, why are dolphins more intelligent than average WoWs player

can WG do something about it? some forced tutorials, or when you drop below 40% WR you will be forced to coop or something? some MM adjustments maybe?

 

 

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Vor 39 Minuten, RAYvenMP sagte:

CVs or not, lets talk about a real problem - majority of the playerbase is so terrible that most games are decided in first 3mins

ppl with 10k games making such mistakes my dog would learn to avoid after 100, how is that even possible, where is the evolution, why are dolphins more intelligent than average WoWs player

can WG do something about it? some forced tutorials, or when you drop below 40% WR you will be forced to coop or something? some MM adjustments maybe?

 

 

You first need to fix the mindset of the people who always use excuses to cover their bad play. ♡

Their new favorite excuse? ☆

The reworked CVs! ♡☆♡

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It's so hard to play these days with all those damn dds running around.

CWPd2Hv.jpg

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DDs should realise if they are perma spotted by CV it means at that time CV is not killing your team mates so having CV planes above you means you already doing your job for a team. Unlike in old rts mode CV could spot you and torp a BB to death at the same time.

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32 minutes ago, Sugertukas said:

Unlike in old rts mode CV could spot you and torp a BB to death at the same time.

 

Then had his TBs go on cd for 3 minutes.

Now the CV kills you then can hit another DD/BB/cruiser in those 3 minutes.

 

Much improvement. So nerf. Wow.

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Then had his TBs go on cd for 3 minutes.

Now the CV kills you then can hit another DD/BB/cruiser in those 3 minutes.

 

Much improvement. So nerf. Wow.

source? afaik it was some 60s for US and 45s for IJN, and only if you lost whole squad

 

hows china server btw? i heard u moved there after last rockets and TB nerfs on Midway

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Just now, RAYvenMP said:

source? afaik it was some 60s for US and 45s for IJN, and only if you lost whole squad

 

- travel time back

- recovery time

- service time

- launching time

- travel time to target

- attack

 

Which for RTS CVs adds to about 3-4 minutes total reload.

 

2 minutes ago, RAYvenMP said:

hows china server btw? i heard u moved there after last rockets and TB nerfs on Midway

 

I've been on there since the rework hit.

Been playing on and off. It's actually pretty good. The meta isn't nearly as :etc_swear:ed and because a good chunk of the playerbase consists of bots the average player skill is actually surprisingly high compared to EU.

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Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

- travel time back

- recovery time

- service time

- launching time

- travel time to target

- attack

 

Which for RTS CVs adds to about 3-4 minutes total reload.

 

 

I've been on there since the rework hit.

Been playing on and off. It's actually pretty good. The meta isn't nearly as :etc_swear:ed and because a good chunk of the playerbase consists of bots the average player skill is actually surprisingly high compared to EU.

dang, so you could strike only 4-5 times per game with old CVs? my bad bad memory

 

anyway, HF in china, sounds fun and learning new language never hurts

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2 minutes ago, RAYvenMP said:

anyway, HF in china, sounds fun and learning new language never hurts

 

Well, I am Chinese tho. Just living in EU.

It's how I was able to buy the Enterprise over there (for like 25€ btw). You gotta have a CN bank account. :Smile_trollface:

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[DK_M]
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On 4/16/2019 at 3:50 PM, Verblonde said:

You're playing a Yugumo - of course you got tonked by CVs. This speaks to my only real gripe with the CVs; they've made IJN torp boats (and anything else with rubbish AA) largely useless against a half competent CV driver.

 

IJN Torp Boats needed a buff anyway. Torpedoes are a terrible weapon, especially in a world where everyone has hydro and/or radar to spot you and your torps, where maps are becoming more and more open to cruiser and DD detriment for the benefit of battleships that turn on a dime. Torpedoes rarely hit and don't deal anywhere near enough damage for their inaccuracy. 

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1 minute ago, Amaterasu_Regale said:

IJN Torp Boats needed a buff anyway.

Agree - the large spotting distance on the torps has been annoying people for longer than I've been playing the game.

 

I suspect we may be waiting a while though - the Russians still seem to have a sulk on regarding the IJN, and Tsushima...!

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1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

Agree - the large spotting distance on the torps has been annoying people for longer than I've been playing the game.

 

I suspect we may be waiting a while though - the Russians still seem to have a sulk on regarding the IJN, and Tsushima...!

 

do it again admiral togo

 

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3 hours ago, Max_Kammerer said:

Here is another, by non-DD players overolooked aspect of the CW rework... Synergism with increased abundance of radar cruisers + last radar buff. Thanks to high presence of CVs lot of players bring to battles USN radar cruisers, which create together with CV planes much problematic environment for DDs skippers despite their abilities and skills. And please, dont answer me: adapt... :) 

Maybe DD's need a radar jamming device, would be interesting in game chat if nothing else,lol

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2 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Maybe DD's need a radar jamming device, would be interesting in game chat if nothing else,lol

I'm not sure about historical time-frames, but you could perhaps have chaff as a higher tier consumable? Have it work like smoke, only it blocks radar, but not visual...?

 

Edit: I suppose it might turn up anyway, as a gimmick for the mooted 'support' CVs?

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1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

Edit: I suppose it might turn up anyway, as a gimmick for the mooted 'support' CVs?

 

- block your teammate's radar

- steal the DD kill for yourself

 

These jokes practically write themselves! :Smile_trollface:

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13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

- block your teammate's radar

- steal the DD kill for yourself

 

These jokes practically write themselves! :Smile_trollface:

Bugger - hadn't thought of that...!

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Before rework :

 

- CV spotted my DD's torpedoes without even trying, which lowered my hit ratio tremendously.

- If the CV in the opposite team was half competent and I wasn't in div, statistically the one in my team was usually bad

- Which mean that a CV that decided to kill me could simply do it.

- Permaspot always was a thing as long as the friendly CV was too stupid to use its fighters.

- I had some 2 minutes games where CV found and annihilated me instantly.

- Any successful drop on you crippled you outright.

 

After Rework :

- Drops hurts way less. You can afford make a mistake against a torpedo spread

- Planes no longer spots torpedo, which means I still can get some points even in CV heavy matches

- Even crappy AA got buffed, but who would use its AA anyway when :

- You have an air detection range lower by several kilometers than the range needed to starts a CV attack on you. You can pretty easily bait a CV at least twice, and if you're in friendly AA range, two bad drop will hurts its plane LOTS.

- Permaspot still exists. But at least the CV have to actually do something and not attack someone else at the same time. While a prerework Midway could just use one fighter squadron to spots while the others squadrons annihilates stuff.

 

Overall I call that a DD buff. Sorry.

 

What people need to do on the other hand :

- Stop friggin going alone ! A CV match have to be played differently compared to a non-CV match ! You can't cap early. You have to be closer to your team and scout within their AA range, and moving forward with your team.

- Against a good CV player, you died all the same pre-rework. But now you even have the time to complain on top of this. Maybe the pre-rework situation was actually better. :Smile_trollface:

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Vor 16 Stunden, GulvkluderGuld sagte:

20F71A81-DECB-4DB2-A6BB-C77C413D4F08.thumb.jpeg.99b15bc7e5e79fd991517aa1bc910000.jpeg

 

Havnt played tier 4 CVs tbh, and those are in protected MM anyway so let's leave them out of it.

That said.

Good luck winning that 1v1 when I use planes to permaspot your dd all game long and strike if ever you move out of friendly air cover....That is my gripe with CVs: permaspotting without any counterplay.

 

My Tier 6 Furious have no problems what-so-ever killing DDs on its own. Rockets and for some dds, torps, work just fine. 

Tier 8 Lexington vs DDs is no contest. Dont make me laugh. 

Tier 8 Shokaku has to rely on rockets which arn't very good, but it can still permaspot with fighters + integral planes.

Tier X: Midway has the same planes as Lexi, just more of them so the DD will evaporate even faster. Haku i'm not sure since i stopped playing IJN after the torp nerfs.

 

No offense, might sound harsh but truth to be told sometimes helps and you tend to comment in such a condescending way for no reason you need to be brought back to earth.

 

I doubt that you are having „no problems killing DDs on your own whatsoever“ or that an encounter of us „will make you laugh“. Your average killrate on CVs of 1,01 is on the lower end on the scale for this class as are the other statistical aspects.

 

The stats of your DDs imply that you don‘t really know how to play them. You overall got more than 11k matches and your stats might be green and blue sometimes, but given the experience to be expected on such a scale of games and that stats are relative to the whole player base which consists bots, one/short time players, little kids, fun players not intending to perform in any kind of matter players, your stats aren’t impressive at all.

 

A competent DD player really knowing what he is doing could top all your DD outputs on stock boats with a 3pt captain and no modules attached.

 

As said it‘s no offense though it might sound harsh, but it is again an average DD player complaining about CV situation, pretending what (even) he can produce in a CV - which obviously isn‘t the case. You are neither really good in CVs nor you are in DDs and you spread myths about the broken meta though the reason for your experience is clearly you and nothing else.

 

I won’t write the whole post of the „fellow DD players“ thread again, but it comes down to what‘s written there...

 

Again, no offense.. truth hurts sometimes, but is a chance either.

 

in this sense.. :etc_hide_turtle:

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On 4/16/2019 at 5:34 PM, GulvkluderGuld said:

Another Double CV complaint thread.  Now with some demonstrations.

But first off the mandatory frustration: Double CV games entire afternoon...This crap has to END.

 

Now to the nuts and bolts. Lots of CV apologists state that CV vs DD balance is fine. I disagree from both ends. 

Let me show from this game that DDs cannot perform their intended role in CV games. Reasons:

1) what (so-called nerfed) rocket planes can do from the recieving end

2) Friendlies provide NO protection (just LOL) and

3) that it does no good to smoke up

 

Yugumo game on Haven. First off, I waited for the mandatory rocket planes to do their sweep of the team while i hugged a friendly Neptune.

Then as the team was blobbing, I went alone because the team was blobbing and it was likely a loss anyway. AA off (obviously) untill detected. 


First CV vs DD situation: Alone vs rocket planes from Enterprise (I make no complaints about taking damage here, as i did go off alone)

shot-19_04.16_16_51.43-0928.thumb.jpg.719ad277c7037d704a0cfe22d221b2be.jpg

He did 4 attempted strikes

1. first one denied by virtue of aa off + turn in + speedboost making him overshoot. AA was turned on as he detected me and off again as he crossed 2,5 km for next strike.

2. 5k from 2nd one, despite same tricks (although i did leave aa off from here, having shot no planes down)

3. Same tactics for the last 2 strikes. He only dropped fighters after mostly missing the 3rd strike (and still mostly missed = 1,5k dmg the last)

 

End result: took 8k dmg from those so-called "useless" Rocket planes. (50% hp if not for SE)

 

Second CV vs DD situation: Grouped with friendlies (neptune + iowa) and using smoke vs DB from Enterprise.

shot-19_04.16_16_55.47-0407.thumb.jpg.5ca27475cd9712ff4aa35f86e6cfdc7d.jpg

Got spotted by first DB strike on the Nept/Iowa as i was barely inside 2,5 km from it. Even smoking up ASAP when i see him target me, another 3k (and lucky at that)

 

Third CV vs DD situation: Cv apologist argue - smoke up and the CV will go away in search of better targets.

shot-19_04.16_16_57.05-0876.thumb.jpg.bd8a171ac8e1633166c3b2ebd218c222.jpg

Uuuhm, nope. Why would they do that? (since you cant shoot the planes from smoke when they arn't spotted)


Obviously, got attacked as the smoke ended. Game ended before i could torp the Massa.

Replay uploaded for interested parties.

Critique is welcome (going off alone was a calculated risk, not using P in the rocket engagement is to not accidentally leaving it on making it easy for the CV).

 

TL; DR

 

Wellplayed CVs make it impossible for dds to fulfill their role and Something Must Be Done.

CV apologist arguments about how DDs can adapt is pure BS strawman arguments as demonstrated in the 2 last examples (provided the CV is not an idiot).

First example demonstrates how Rocket planes are if anything, still overpowered (removing fighter plane consumable would make them less-so).

 

Couple ideas

- GIVE CVs some useful AA to deny permaspotting from enemy CV (like fighters from old RTS CV)

barring that

- remove figher planes from Rocket planes or make fighter planes unable to spot DDs

- nerf rocket plane damage along with DB damage and leave spotting range intact, or reduce air spotting range of dds even further (<2 km)

- make planes visible through smoke and let DDs spot and attack the things, and most importantly, buff DD AA

20190416_164735_PJSD209-Yugumo_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

 

Edit: Tags removed from the title

This guy sailing way so far from his allies and instead accepting he is misplaying A.F. he blames his team for not providing support. WoWs Playerbase at its best

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17 minutes ago, Alelos said:

This guy sailing way so far from his allies and instead accepting he is misplaying A.F. he blames his team for not providing support. WoWs Playerbase at its best

Dude, if his team is stupid and not pushing the caps, a good DD player has to try to cap solo, because the game is lost anyway. 

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Overall the CV situation is fine as it is, but the moment you get 2 CVs per team the game becomes cancerous garbage, due to constant strikes and spotting. WG needs to cap the number of CVs  on tiers 6 and 8 as well.

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45 minutes ago, 22cm said:

Dude, if his team is stupid and not pushing the caps, a good DD player has to try to cap solo, because the game is lost anyway. 

A good DD player never push alone without help. And here you can see that he is completely sailing away from cap in the open. Where do you see really the good play and push on him? And a good player as well with good attitude will never start posting threads and flaming others for his own mistakes which they are clear from those failed screenshots. Even if your team is is misplaying you should never flame them. This post is an huge fail. If I was him I would have been embarrassed and delete this thread.

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Vor 10 Stunden, ShinGetsu sagte:

Before rework :

 

- CV spotted my DD's torpedoes without even trying, which lowered my hit ratio tremendously.

- If the CV in the opposite team was half competent and I wasn't in div, statistically the one in my team was usually bad

- Which mean that a CV that decided to kill me could simply do it.

- Permaspot always was a thing as long as the friendly CV was too stupid to use its fighters.

- I had some 2 minutes games where CV found and annihilated me instantly.

- Any successful drop on you crippled you outright.

 

After Rework :

- Drops hurts way less. You can afford make a mistake against a torpedo spread

- Planes no longer spots torpedo, which means I still can get some points even in CV heavy matches

- Even crappy AA got buffed, but who would use its AA anyway when :

- You have an air detection range lower by several kilometers than the range needed to starts a CV attack on you. You can pretty easily bait a CV at least twice, and if you're in friendly AA range, two bad drop will hurts its plane LOTS.

- Permaspot still exists. But at least the CV have to actually do something and not attack someone else at the same time. While a prerework Midway could just use one fighter squadron to spots while the others squadrons annihilates stuff.

 

Overall I call that a DD buff. Sorry.

 

What people need to do on the other hand :

- Stop friggin going alone ! A CV match have to be played differently compared to a non-CV match ! You can't cap early. You have to be closer to your team and scout within their AA range, and moving forward with your team.

- Against a good CV player, you died all the same pre-rework. But now you even have the time to complain on top of this. Maybe the pre-rework situation was actually better. :Smile_trollface:

Before rework: 1 CV every 5th or even 10th match.

 

After rework: 1 or 2 CV in 2 of 3 matches.

Even worse in mid tier matches.

 

No DD buff at all.

I have given up playing my IJN torp boats and wait until CV get less.

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11 minutes ago, Alelos said:

A good DD player never push alone without help. 

What i ve said. Even if you get no help from your team, you will still have to try to cap when you see the difference in points is getting too big. 

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