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Which is the Best Premium CV?

Which is the Best Premium CV?  

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  1. 1. Which is the Best Premium CV?


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Hello!

 

I've been trying to get a picture of the strengths and weaknesses of the four premium CV:s. There's a lot of information out there, and about as many opinions as there are players. So I thought, this question may well be an old one and already answered, but what the heck - I'll just put up a poll and see what happens.

 

I am usually the first one out with a vote on my own polls. Not so this time, for the simple reason that I don't feel qualified to form an opinion, as of now. For one thing, I don't own all four premium cv:s (yet). I also haven't played enough games in those I do own, to have a definitive opinion on those.

 

Simply voting on the poll will of course be very helpful. But it would be even more interesting to also know your reasons for how you vote.

 

Cheers!

:Smile_honoring:

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Enterprise hands down.

+ Best rockets

+ Best torps

+ Best sustain

+ Best maneuverability

+ Topkek AP bombs that nuke your worst enemies (aka AA cruisers)

+ Murderous 10 fighter squad with gigantic patrol circle

+ Good aircraft survivability

+ Decent hull characteristics

+ Extremely dangerous when bottom tier

:etc_swear:s all over enemy team when top tier

 

- Requires skill to play

- Has little use for DE unlike other USN CVs, so you're gonna need a dedicated captain for full effectiveness

- So powerful you can't farm damage in most matches because you win too fast, giving you bad average damage

- Yes, that's it

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I cannot vote, will not vote, as I refuse to play (or purchase) any reworked FARCE CV. Some players actually have & maintain their principles.

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Short version:

E N T E R P R I S E

PS spoiler> It is not even t8 in practice!

 

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On 4/16/2019 at 2:38 PM, El2aZeR said:

Enterprise hands down.

+ Best rockets

+ Best torps

+ Best sustain

+ Best maneuverability

+ Topkek AP bombs that nuke your worst enemies (aka AA cruisers)

+ Murderous 10 fighter squad with gigantic patrol circle

+ Good aircraft survivability

+ Decent hull characteristics

+ Extremely dangerous when bottom tier

:etc_swear:s all over enemy team when top tier

 

- Requires skill to play

- Has little use for DE unlike other USN CVs, so you're gonna need a dedicated captain for full effectiveness

- So powerful you can't farm damage in most matches because you win too fast, giving you bad average damage

- Yes, that's it

I am actually in that deep love with Enterprise that I will found some Fan Club of it or the Church of Enterprise. When you master it you just wreck everything. Even the losses are fun.

 

I blame myself not buying it earlier. It is the best entertainment in this for me from day zero.

 

As for skills I went for classical plane tankiness, and hp boosted the rocket planes with the upgrade.

 

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My question to all is which of these are the most unique i.e which one gives gameplay no tech tree ship can provide? 

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1 hour ago, affie said:

My question to all is which of these are the most unique i.e which one gives gameplay no tech tree ship can provide? 

Most unique is Graf Zeppelin. Doesn't make it the most useful though. And nerfs aren't exactly going to change that.

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8 hours ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Most unique is Graf Zeppelin

I'll second that. If looks is also just as important with the CV played, then the Graff is the best looking one I think. Looks a little like Furious and Kaga CV in design, a bit more funky looking with some "character" compared to Enterprise and Saipan - which resemble your typical looking modern CV. Also like the look of the planes with Graff because they show torps, bombs and rockets carried on the 3 plane types, unlike with the other 3 CVs sold that use bomb doors for some planes, so they don't display either torps or bombs on some planes like Graff does.

 

The Graff comes with 2 of the 3 plane types being fast at around 260 knots when using engine boost, so you can sit at the far edge of map miles away and still be able to zip across it  into enemy areas using the fast planes and stock CV concealment. Which is needed if you don't use concealment module and skill with Graff, its concealment is pretty dire at 15.7 stock, but then that's only if no concealment skill/module are used and you go for some secondary gun skill build instead (sacrificing concealment skill + plus taking faster plane regeneration on the module side also), which is what I do. You can do it because the fast planes can let you sit far away from being spotted and still be be effective.

 

So you have a few skill build options with Graff, and its a bit more unique also because it has decent secondary guns (they are not bad at all actually), which adds an extra fun factor to the Graff CV and can be extended to around 9k range for extra defence against pesky DD.

 

The Enterprise is the only CV out the 4 that comes with no secondary guns at all. So skill build wise it's more straight forward really, as you don't even need think about using any skills/module for secondary gun defence (seeing as it has none). Although you would still need BFT and AFT skills if you wanted to boost AA further on Enterprise, which will boost both the AA and Secondary guns on Graff (so a bit more useful in taking both skills), with the rest of points used on plane skills.

 

Not saying the Graff is best CV out the 4 (performance wise). Just something to think about with it, if you are considering getting it.

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On 5/11/2019 at 6:04 PM, TheScarletPimpernel said:

The Enterprise is the only CV out the 4 that comes with no secondary guns at all.

 

That's Saipan, although E's secondaries may as well not exist anyway as well (4x 5"/38s per side).

Not that she needs them ofc. Her RFs are the best DD hunters in the game bar none. Not even Midway DBs can rival them in their consistency.

 

GZ is getting nerfed hard in the upcoming patch. As such recommending to buy her right now is questionable to say the least.

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On 4/16/2019 at 3:38 PM, El2aZeR said:

Enterprise hands down.

+ Best rockets

+ Best torps

+ Best sustain

+ Best maneuverability

+ Topkek AP bombs that nuke your worst enemies (aka AA cruisers)

+ Murderous 10 fighter squad with gigantic patrol circle

+ Good aircraft survivability

+ Decent hull characteristics

+ Extremely dangerous when bottom tier

:etc_swear:s all over enemy team when top tier

 

- Requires skill to play

- Has little use for DE unlike other USN CVs, so you're gonna need a dedicated captain for full effectiveness

- So powerful you can't farm damage in most matches because you win too fast, giving you bad average damage

- Yes, that's it

Damn it - that’s the one I don’t own.... I didn’t buy any new ones but kept the ones I had anyway. Saipan I find a bit meh on first impression but I will come back to her later. Kaga’s planes are made from tissue paper and GZ is lacking punch. Plus the spood beest nerf is insane

 

On 4/16/2019 at 6:17 PM, antean said:

I cannot vote, will not vote, as I refuse to play (or purchase) any reworked FARCE CV. Some players actually have & maintain their principles.

Haha I was waiting for this 

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

GZ is getting nerfed hard in the upcoming patch.

Hmm, didn't know that when buying GZ last week. In what way is it getting nerfed?

 

I know WG are going to slow planes down in the next patch, so yeah it will effect all CV planes really. Although, the thing about the British T8 Prem CV not released yet is the "speed the planes do" because it lacks torp planes. So that CV will be hit hardest really in slowing planes down, and its not even for sale yet.

 

To be honest, I think the AP planes need a buff on RNG getting hits. Seems a waste of time using the AP planes, you can do 10 drops all spot on target with a BB, and about 1 out 10 will land a hit. I'm aware the AP planes don't work well against Cruisers or DD ships because of the round aiming circle and them ships being too narrow to get AP hits on. But come on, even on BB ships most of the time the AP drops miss when the aiming was bang on target.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TheScarletPimpernel said:

Hmm, didn't know that. In what way is it getting nerfed?

 

Max speed of her planes is getting cut down to 181kn which is a 70-80kn nerf I believe.

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Well in that case then, I sure as hell hope they are going to buff the ships concealment down to same as all other CVs for sale to make allowance for that. If they don't, they can give me a refund back for the CV. I'll be asking for one if they nerf the speed down by so much and then leave the concealment at 15.7

 

Due to the terrible concealment the Graff has, you need the fast planes to be able to sit at distance safetly and use the speed of the planes to get across the map to be effective in it. So obviously if they leave the concealment the same and slow the planes down by that huge a margin. The CV will then be a load of shite to use.

 

I bought the Graf mainly because it has some fast planes, bored with playing CV that have slow planes.

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28 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Max speed of her planes is getting cut down to 181kn which is a 70-80kn nerf I believe.

Hmm. the planes already cruise at around 186 and then  do 260 with boost, torps and bombs planes do.

 

So if they make it so those two planes only do 181 with boost used, what the heck is the normal cruise speed going to be cut down too. Same as something like Implacable planes, slow as :etc_swear: at around 140 cruise speed. As they will clearly have to also reduce to cruise speed as well, when currently two planes are faster at 186 than they plan to have them doing at 181 with boost used.

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Gz now goes 180 without boost and around 250 with boost. In the future it will go 180 without boost and around 215 with boost...still a large Nerf...although it did get some buffs at bomb department...but I would say that overall it is Nerf.

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:57 PM, 1MajorKoenig said:

Kaga’s planes are made from tissue paper

I've played Kaga for a week now, 37 randoms so far, and I don't recall ever running out of planes.

 

What comes to Kaga in general, its ability to deal out damage with the torps is amazing for T8. I've had many T8 and T9 matches with 150k alpha damage from torps alone. Add to that damage over time, and whatever you might get with rockets and dive bombers, we're at 200k or beyond. It's really quite ridiculous.

 

The problem with Kaga is that the gameplay is possibly too simplistic. You just fly wave after wave of torpedo attacks against a vulnerable target. The rocket planes and dive bombers are occasionally useful, but overall they just lack the punch. Kaga is unique, but overall, for me, Shokaku is more fun.

 

I've been waiting for the average damage to come down, but it's starting to look like it won't:

image.thumb.png.81c859fb7d0a7758d8442d81f1ac3d25.png

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Surprised that both Kaga and Enterprise are averaging over 100k damage often per match. And don't know how  Kaga manages to get 100k damage average with it's tier 6 paper planes that usually all get decimated in the 1st attack run, lol. I know it never runs out planes, but they usually don't even make it past a first attack run when following Kaga players in game after I've been killed. So what real use is the high plane regen on it?

 

I struggle with the Graff Zep to get anywhere near 100k damage, average is usually around 40-50k damage per match for me. The problem I find with Graff is that only 2 AP bombs are dropped and very often leads to getting no hit because so few are dropped and the high miss chance because of that rounded aiming recycle given Graff that leads to bad RNG on AP bomb dropped on ships like Cruisers, they are pretty frustrating to use on Graff. Same thing goes with rockets on the Graff, only a very few are fired so you're not getting that much damage from them really, the high fire chance they have doesn't count for much either because so few are fired (that is quite misleading). Plus rocket planes are the slowest planes on Graff. The torps sound okay with 3 torps dropped, but the problem with dropping torps on Graff - the aiming recycle opens up wider with any slightest WASD steering movement while doing the torp attack and leads to dropped torps usually fanning outwards and not getting 2 or 3 torp hits regular enough from them. So even damage from 3 torps dropped doesn't usually amount to much due to the "fanning outwards" of torps only makes them wildly spread out when reaching the target most times, rather than being 3 tightly grouped together torps. I dislike the Graff keep doing that with any slightest WASD key movement on torp run-in, when the torp aiming recycle has fully closed up for you for a perfect drop, but then opens up again after using WASD keys for any last minute very small plane adjustment movement that you don't have time to do with the mouse.

 

So Graff is generally disappointing to play, you struggle with Graff to do any high damage output like that, never hit 100k damage once yet. Best done has been about 80k damage I think, but that is rare. The Graff Zep for me underperforms too much due to small numbers of AP bomb/HE Rockets and the problematic and somewhat quirky Torp/AP bomb aiming you have. You have to play it hard to even get 50k damage out the CV per match.

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1 hour ago, TheScarletPimpernel said:

Surprised that both Kaga and Enterprise are averaging over 100k damage often per match. And don't know how  Kaga manages to get 100k damage average with it's tier 6 paper planes that usually all get decimated in the 1st attack run, lol. I know it never runs out planes, but they usually don't even make it past a first attack run when following Kaga players in game after I've been killed. So what real use is the high plane regen on it?

First off, Kaga has actually pretty mediocre plane regen on most planes. The D4Y Suisei DBs are the sole plane I'd rate as fast regenerating and even then only if you don't look at Enterprise times. What makes Kaga able to almost never run out of planes (if played well) is that she starts out with 96 to 102 planes depending on what modifications you use and regenerates like an additional dozen planes per type ontop.

 

Second, if you don't just waste your planes (which are T7, not T6), they actually are tough enough to survive attack runs. If you collect flak buffs though or try to drop Minos, of course they just die. But it's very possible to drop T10 BBs with it and the 4 torps per drop are no joke for a T8 CV.

1 hour ago, TheScarletPimpernel said:

I struggle with the Graff Zep to get anywhere near 100k damage, average is usually around 40-50k damage per match for me. The problem I find with Graff is that only 2 AP bombs are dropped and very often leads to getting no hit because so few are dropped and the high miss chance because of that rounded aiming recycle given Graff that leads to bad RNG on AP bomb dropped on ships like Cruisers, they are pretty frustrating to use on Graff. Same thing goes with rockets on the Graff, only a very few are fired so you're not getting that much damage from them really, the high fire chance they have doesn't count for much either because so few are fired (that is quite misleading). Plus rocket planes are the slowest planes on Graff. The torps sound okay with 3 torps dropped, but the problem with dropping torps on Graff - the aiming recycle opens up wider with any slightest WASD steering movement while doing the torp attack and leads to dropped torps usually fanning outwards and not getting 2 or 3 torp hits regular enough from them. So even damage from 3 torps dropped doesn't usually amount to much due to the "fanning outwards" of torps only makes them wildly spread out when reaching the target most times, rather than being 3 tightly grouped together torps. I dislike the Graff keep doing that with any slightest WASD key movement on torp run-in, when the torp aiming recycle has fully closed up for you for a perfect drop, but then opens up again after using WASD keys for any last minute very small plane adjustment movement that you don't have time to do with the mouse.

 

So Graff is generally disappointing to play, you struggle with Graff to do any high damage output like that, never hit 100k damage once yet. Best done has been about 80k damage I think, but that is rare. The Graff Zep for me underperforms too much due to small numbers of AP bomb/HE Rockets and the problematic and somewhat quirky Torp/AP bomb aiming you have. You have to play it hard to even get 50k damage out the CV per match.

Graf Zeppelin is currently a bit of an underpowered CV compared to others, imo, so no surprise it doesn't do as well. One tip I do give you though is that you should not aim with WASD when you are on the aiming run. Get the approach angle right, then use your mouse. If you look at planes from behind (which in aiming you kind of always do), planes respond to mouse input, which allows for minor adjustments that don't throw off the aim. Other than that, Graf Zeppelin is a challenge, as you need to use your planes wisely. GZ needs to not lose its planes, as its entire damage comes from the speed allowing it to have a faster attack rate than others. Obviously, that gets nerfed hard next patch and getting the aiming reticule buffed on the AP DBs is unlikely to make up for that, as the fundamental issue of the DBs to me is that in the end, it'll always just be 2 bombs vs Shokaku's 3 and Enterprise's 6. Combined with some ships being outright immune to AP DB cits and the GZ having the worst anti-DD performance beyond 9.4 km makes it comparatively crap, when often much damage comes from just spamming torps and using AP DBs whenever you see a lone target of opportunity that actually eats cits.

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1 hour ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

Is someone plaid GZ on PTS? IF so how it is it did get some buffs...along one giant nerf :)...

Given how underwhelming GZ feels already even if you got two cits out of a DB run...

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4 hours ago, TheScarletPimpernel said:

And don't know how  Kaga manages to get 100k damage average with it's tier 6 paper planes that usually all get decimated in the 1st attack run, lol. I know it never runs out planes, but they usually don't even make it past a first attack run when following Kaga players in game after I've been killed. 

The way I play Kaga is the cowardly way. More often than not I focus on the isolated targets that don't have strong AA. I dump torps into them until dead, and it often does not take long. Some would call it damage farming, but Kaga is such a one-trick pony that I believe it's actually the most efficient way. The rocket planes and dive bombers are really weak, and I only use them in situations where they're good enough, and/or I feel the need to conserve my torp bombers. 

 

If you get a T10 game with a smart red team, it's a struggle to get anywhere near 100k.

 

 

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I have both Enterprise and Graff Zep, I bought Enterprise today to see what all the fuss is about over that CV.

 

First impressions, I don't think its as good as people make out it is. While it seems capable to doing a bit more damage overall that Graff Zep, there really isn't that much difference between the two CV worth shouting about. Okay, Enterprise has more to shoot from planes with a salvo than Graff does, but Graff can pen more ships than Enterprise with both its AP Bombs and HE rockets, and does it at a faster pace - with its faster planes. So that makes up for it not having the same volume that Enterprise has to fire. 40mm pen on rockets with Graff - compared to 27mm pen with Enterprise rockets, Enterprise is more limited on targets it can pen. T7 planes used by Enterprise stuggle more in top tier matches than the T8 planes Graff uses, plus the T8 planes Graff uses are so fast at 260k that it can zoom in drop torps and fly out of AA flak pretty fast for a second attack run, even outrun any attack planes launched. Something Enterprise planes struggle to do and takes far more plane damage at top tier doing 1 attack run and then being slow planes to get away from the AA flak. But that of course will change now with the speed nerf coming to Graff

 

I would say now playing both, that they are pretty equally balanced overall. Not a great deal between the two, both have their own pros and cons

 

And what this I read before about Enterprise having a bigger attack plane radius of 6k compared to 3.5 with Graff Zep attack planes. I see Enterprise showing only 3.5k radius for it's attack planes, same as Graff?

 

 

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I got the Enterprise a couple days ago, and I'll compare it to Shokaku since I've played it a lot, and have done well with it. Also, they have the similarity of using AP bombs.

 

What Enterprise has going for it over Shokaku:

  • Rockets have very similar overall performance with a tight reticle: Shokaku's hit a bit harder but Enterprise has a great 4x3 squadron. It's absolutely devastating against DD's.
  • The AP bombs are much more devastating in Enterprise, almost the same damage but twice as many. 
  • Torpedos are a tough call since the squadrons are quite different. Shokaku's can be great, but it's difficult to utilize 4x2 squadron well. Shokaku's planes can have the huge advantage in concealment, but against most targets Enterprise's might actually be better.
  • Planes have more HP.
  • Fighters are a lot, lot better.
  • More planes on deck, faster restoration.

What Shokaku has going for it:

  • Better concealment.
  • Faster planes.

So absolutely no contest, Enterprise wins hands down. Of the four T8's I've played (Lexington, Shokaku, Kaga and Enterprise) it seems to be clearly the best. Kaga has an amazing ability to harvest damage, but it's a lot, lot less versatile. I feel that Enterprise can carry even T10 games when all goes well. When top tier it can essentially shıt all over the enemy team: there's no ship that you can't comfortably attack.

 

 

 

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