Graf Zeppelin underperforms. Please fix it.

[Grumpy_Shark]

Ok here i am once more exposing the naked king. I have tried all premiums and i noticed that Graf Zeppelin is sub par. 

I start with the good. 
Fast planes in general except for the rocket planes that are slow.
Very good rocket planes. They are slower than those of other CVs but have good damage and penetration. They are very good against all types of ships. 
Problem is you can't use them more than a couple of times as they die fast.

And now with the bad. 
All planes die very fast. Plane HP very low and being unagile just makes it worse. 
Torp planes are subpar. Harder to lock on than others, need to start from afar, low damage per torp only 4k. But you end up using these a lot since bombs totally suck.

So yeah bomb planes totally suck. They are hard to manoeuvre and the AP bombs do minimal damage. Even if perfectly centered on immobile targets do bad damage. I tried bombing from various angles. The results seem rather random. Also, the bombs are not centered correctly and quite often if you bomb from the bow even on BBs they tend to go left and right to the sea! They seem to do better vs cruisers if they hit which is rare since quite often they miss. The ships feel too "thin" for these bombers. The bombs drop on sea never touching the ship one to the left and one to the right. The bombs should be much tighter. 

PS and imagine it is the most expensive CV! It is the most worthless of them all. I like it's looks and "voice"  are cool but its damage output is very low. 

Please fix it  I am sure others will agree and i find it strange that noone has brought this issue yet.




 

[Tyrendian89]

2 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

i find it strange that noone has brought this issue yet.

easy explanation for that.

Graf Zeppelin is the best performing T8 CV in pretty much every category.

[Bear__Necessities]

8 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

Ok here i am once more exposing the naked king. I have tried all premiums and i noticed that Graf Zeppelin is sub par. 

I start with the good. 
Fast planes in general except for the rocket planes that are slow.
Very good rocket planes. They are slower than those of other CVs but have good damage and penetration. They are very good against all types of ships. 
Problem is you can't use them more than a couple of times as they die fast.

And now with the bad. 
All planes die very fast. Plane HP very low and being unagile just makes it worse. 
Torp planes are subpar. Harder to lock on than others, need to start from afar, low damage per torp only 4k. But you end up using these a lot since bombs totally suck.

So yeah bomb planes totally suck. They are hard to manoeuvre and the AP bombs do minimal damage. Even if perfectly centered on immobile targets do bad damage. I tried bombing from various angles. The results seem rather random. Also, the bombs are not centered correctly and quite often if you bomb from the bow even on BBs they tend to go left and right to the sea! They seem to do better vs cruisers if they hit which is rare since quite often they miss. The ships feel too "thin" for these bombers. The bombs drop on sea never touching the ship one to the left and one to the right. The bombs should be much tighter. 

PS and imagine it is the most expensive CV! It is the most worthless of them all. I like it's looks and "voice"  are cool but its damage output is very low. 

Please fix it  I am sure others will agree and i find it strange that noone has brought this issue yet.




 

 

[Grumpy_Shark]

6 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

easy explanation for that.

Graf Zeppelin is the best performing T8 CV in pretty much every category.

 If carried by good team maybe...

[El2aZeR]

Nah dude, if there is a premium CV currently underperforming it's Enterprise. Just look at her stats. Literally below every other premium CV. Just barely beats out tech tree ones. So weak.

WG pls buff Enterprise again. She clearly needs it.

 

Spoiler

 

[Srle_Vigilante]

1 minute ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

 If carried by good player maybe...

fixed it for ya  

[Beastofwar]

40 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

And now with the bad. 
All planes die very fast. Plane HP very low and being unagile just makes it worse. 
Torp planes are subpar. Harder to lock on than others, need to start from afar, low damage per torp only 4k. But you end up using these a lot since bombs totally suck.

Please fix it  I am sure others will agree and i find it strange that noone has brought this issue yet.
 

 

I did bring it up...but there are so many topics on CV ....

 

You are right no matter how much they try to redicule you or contradict what you say.

 

- All aircraft turn like oil tankers overflying half of the enemy fleet which they not survive

- Decellerating in a turn does not result in a sufficient tighter turn

- Above mean you cannot fight DD's effectively as your divebombers use AP and rocket fighters are unable to turn tight.

- Aircraft have very low HP compared to all other T8 aircraft except for Kaga's, but those have "limitless" reserves while the GZ does not.

 

But there are plus sides :

 

- Insane speed ( ofc using boost too ) when approaching targets leaves them unable to do anything about it.

- Insane speed makes dodging FLAK unnessesary.

- Insane speed can you have enjoy killing spree's of low HP enemy ships late match as them being scattered all over the map makes no difference to you.

- Not attempting to turn around you can just "blitz" over targets accelerating out with low losses. "'F" when out of the FLAK outer ring, immiditatly lauch again with other aircraft.

 

You probably should get used to making 1 single attack pass with rediculous speed in a straight line  in and out, and then "F" when out of their AA range. 

 

Remember you can be back at the target from the CV in mere seconds because of the insane speed you should probably skill into even further.

 

Trying to turn obviously kills you, so you should probably  abandon that with this CV or suffer for it. WG designed this specific CV  this way not by accident, they will probably not "fix" it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy_Shark]

16 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

 

 I take your word for it...  Judging by your profile... 

 

[Desteban]

I am serious here, is GZ really considered good?

If so please somebody point me in the righ direction on how to use her because compared to the other premium CVs she feels kinda weak to me.

Doing well with the others but GZ seems like a hopless case to me 

[Beastofwar]

2 minutes ago, Desteban said:

I am serious here, is GZ really considered good?

If so please somebody point me in the righ direction on how to use her because compared to the other premium CVs she feels kinda weak to me.

Doing well with the others but GZ seems like a hopless case to me 

 

So read my advice 2nd above your comment ^^

[Bear__Necessities]

6 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

 I take your word for it...  Judging by your profile... 

 

Here’s the thing bub. I’ve had them played AGAINST me. They are strong. I’ve had players on my team play them. They are strong. 

 

Now. I suggest a good strong cheddar to match the Whine you have.

 

And as you decided to bring a stats fight, sure... it’s totally the ship that’s “weak”...

[EgyptOverseer]

Here I am, in a forum for a game dedicated to warships seeing technical discussions about planes. If only there was a dedicated game from the same developer for warplanes... Oh, wait... 

[Grumpy_Shark]

34 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

easy explanation for that.

Graf Zeppelin is the best performing T8 CV in pretty much every category.

As for the other troll now... Oh you are in TTT you must be very experienced... Well you are but not in CVs... You rarely play them...
 
 

[Tyrendian89]

4 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

As for the other troll now... Oh you are in TTT you must be very experienced... Well you are but not in CVs... You rarely play them...

 

which is why I wasnt speaking from experience, but raw stats.

 

next time you call someone a troll, at least please try to have some semblance of a clue what you are talking about. Helps with not looking like a [edited].

[Grumpy_Shark]

20 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I did bring it up...but there are so many topics on CV ....

 

You are right no matter how much they try to redicule you or contradict what you say.

 

- All aircraft turn like oil tankers overflying half of the enemy fleet which they not survive

- Decellerating in a turn does not result in a sufficient tighter turn

- Above mean you cannot fight DD's effectively as your divebombers use AP and rocket fighters are unable to turn tight.

- Aircraft have very low HP compared to all other T8 aircraft except for Kaga's, but those have "limitless" reserves while the GZ does not.

 

But there are plus sides :

 

- Insane speed ( ofc using boost too ) when approaching targets leaves them unable to do anything about it.

- Insane speed makes dodging FLAK unnessesary.

- Not attempting to turn around you can just "blitz" over targets accelerating out with low losses. "'F" when out of the FLAK outer ring, immiditatly lauch again with other aircraft.

 

You probably should get used to making 1 single attack pass with rediculous speed in and out, and then "F" Remember you can be back from the CV in mere seconds because of the insane speed you should probably skill into even further. Trying to turn obviously kills you, so you should probably  abandon that with this CV or suffer for it. WG designed this specific CV  this way not by accident, they will probably not "fix" it.

 

 

 

 

 

Your thought on paper seems good. Problem is that if you don't turn you will go deeper within enemy ship formation. Cause normaly you would aim for the ship ahead. So by going straight you will go deeper within enemy ship territory and there you will die even if you avoid all the flak . Cause your planes are too flimsy.  And you will run out of boost anyway quite soon... Also when you will be pressing F your planes will head back on a straight line towards your CV so they will have to travel above the whole enemy fleet once more... They gain invulnerability after some point but not sure when. All in all even with the "one pass" you will end up still losing almost all your planes. 

 

[Prospect_b]

19 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

which is why I wasnt speaking from experience, but raw stats.

 

next time you call someone a troll, at least please try to have some semblance of a clue what you are talking about. Helps with not looking like a [edited].

It's weird she's doing so good (still behind mighty Indomitable :D) since she looks extremely weak in every department to me, judging from some streams I saw. Her battle number is quite low, so we'll have to see what the next couple of weeks brings. I'm betting she will turn out lower on that table.

 

That's not to say I wouldn't have bought her, but they gave her those stupid planes so I don't care anymore.

[Bics93]

24 minuti fa, Bear_Necessities ha scritto:

Here’s the thing bub. I’ve had them played AGAINST me. They are strong. I’ve had players on my team play them. They are strong. 

 

Now. I suggest a good strong cheddar to match the Whine you have.

 

And as you decided to bring a stats fight, sure... it’s totally the ship that’s “weak”...

 

Ouch! 

[Grumpy_Shark]

7 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

which is why I wasnt speaking from experience, but raw stats.

 

next time you call someone a troll, at least please try to have some semblance of a clue what you are talking about. Helps with not looking like a [edited].

Please be respectful towards the others and try to stay on the topic instead of going into personal arguments.

 

Gd'day,

Excavatus

[Miragetank90]

6 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

It's weird she's doing so good (still behind mighty Indomitable :D) since she looks extremely weak in every department to me, judging from some streams I saw. Her battle number is quite low, so we'll have to see what the next couple of weeks brings. I'm betting she will turn out lower on that table.

 

That's not to say I would have bought her, if they wouldn't have given her those stupid planes.

 

I find it weird as well. Still, I'm not sure she's weak, just difficult to use.

I actually love the planes. At that speed, they're a blast. Just flimsy. 

 

Gotta go fast.

[Grumpy_Shark]

5 minutes ago, Bics93 said:

 

Ouch! 

With the ape teams i get all the time i am quite proud of my stats. And if i find you in game be certain i ll kick your ship's arse. As for the CVs stats i never bothered to look too much into them cause when you grind you will be making losses till you get better. I don't befriend purple clans to carry me you see. I solo play hence the results are quite ok for me. 

And i posted your stats in CVs to make you see your experience in CVs is lacking therefore your opinion can't be taken seriously. Not to compair our e-peens. Unlike what you did probably cause your real "peen" is too small.

[Prospect_b]

6 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

I actually love the planes. At that speed, they're a blast. Just flimsy. 

I meant, I wanted Stuka's for DBs and BF109s for fighers. Don't really care what TBs they'd given her cause afaik she wasn't planned with any.

 

That kind of thing would be the only reason to persuade me to spend close to €50 for a tier 8 cv and the glorious matchmaking that comes with it. (or, alternatively, something horribly broken )

[Beastofwar]

23 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

Your thought on paper seems good. Problem is that if you don't turn you will go deeper within enemy ship formation. Cause normaly you would aim for the ship ahead. So by going straight you will go deeper within enemy ship territory and there you will die even if you avoid all the flak . Cause your planes are too flimsy.  And you will run out of boost anyway quite soon... Also when you will be pressing F your planes will head back on a straight line towards your CV so they will have to travel above the whole enemy fleet once more... They gain invulnerability after some point but not sure when. All in all even with the "one pass" you will end up still losing almost all your planes. 

 

 

You say it yourself : you should not overfly ships with such a course that will have you fly straight over their whole fleet making this not work.

 

As you have insane - comet atmosphere entry - speed you can come in at any angle you like, so choose a course that will not have you overfly the whole enemy fleet.

 

And that "F" thing when you blitzed out of their outer AA reach does work.....i do this all the time, get all of  them back in safety that did not die during the pass itself. Does not matter what they overfly when safely high up returning to CV.

 

Other CV aircraft get usually whacked by long range AA in the back ( can't effectively dodge what you cant see coming ) trying to exit the outer ring AA zone , so these insane speed escaping GZ aircraft are special being able to get away. You should use it.

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

It's weird she's doing so good (still behind mighty Indomitable :D) since she looks extremely weak in every department to me, judging from some streams I saw. Her battle number is quite low, so we'll have to see what the next couple of weeks brings. I'm betting she will turn out lower on that table.

 

That's not to say I wouldn't have bought her, but they gave her those stupid planes so I don't care anymore.

 

On Maplesyrup last week GZ doesnt actually look that good compared to others, 2nd last in WR and damage (kaga worst WR and Enterprise worst avg damage @El2aZeR i think you need to correct that one again )

 

6 minutes ago, pali_tz1f0s said:

If you don't have personal experience your opinion doesn't matter for me

Buffs for a ship cant be justified because someone is bad in a ship - its not how this works

Can i make a new account, suck with Fiji and then come here and say "Fiji armor sucks, needs buff, i die too fast". People would say im nuts (rightfully so).

Stats (aka facts) show, its not worse than the others, so demanding buffs is extremely questionable.

[_Ezio_]

3 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

I meant, I wanted Junckers for DBs and BF109s for fighers. Don't really care what TBs they'd given her cause afaik she wasn't planned with any.

Junkers where planned to be her TB... there even existed some Junkers modified to carry torpedos... And the BF109 is a stupid pick for a CV plane... And they realised that which is why later on she was listed with a different plane type.

BF109 had a flimsy landing gear which could barely hold on a landbased landingstrip. On a CV such a thing will always lead to countless casualties.

But i still want the Junkers on her.

[I_AM_LULU_SNAIL]

GZ is definitely harder to master as its style is very different from the others. I think the torpedo bombers are a bit sub par in terms of damage but that's about it.

My verdict is: gitgud issue

 

22€ for the consultation, thank you.