Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Beastofwar

2 CV focussing on a single CV works...

65 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
1,712 posts
245 battles
14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yup. Figured he would be sneaking along the map border in an attempt to get to me. Which judging by his position when I spotted him and his actions later in the match he probably was.

Firing then abandoning is a much faster process than waiting for them to go on cd then abandoning. If you know you can't make another attack with a squad, don't.

Ahh ok i see, Im surprised he manages 57k in his asashio, i barely get to 26k in my maass lmao, although my winrate is 58%, i assumed winrate and damage collralate but i struggle badly to get damage via torps in dd's (need to play them more).

 

Watching you play miss presents gave me a better insight on what to do with lexi and rangerz, also the turn rate on this attack fighters is insane, wish my lexi ones could change as fast.

 

the little jab fest was fun to watch lol.

 

Edit: also you just beat my record for damage in my ranger by 1k ;-;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
[BHSFL]
Players
1,810 posts
6,028 battles
1 hour ago, Europizza said:

You don't need an CV AA centric build to withstand 2 CV's ganging up on you. You just need to blob up with the other CV.

 

That fails as you don't always get to spawn near one. They can be minutes away on some maps as CV do not accelerate or turn that fast. I would have done it if any had been near.

 

But you are right if it would be a pre match strategy that would pretty much fail right then and there where CV's do spawn near each other, and seek to use each others AA.

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Because as we all know AA gets less efficient when faced with multiple squads just like back in the RTS iteration!

Oh wait...

 

That being nonsense does not change enhanced AA kill squadrons faster. 

 

More then one squadrons potentially drop more torpedo's or bombs sinking you if you are a stock AA defenceless nub that can't kill them fast enough to prevent too many weapons dropping.

 

It is therefore important AA kills squadrons faster - even if these squadrons are simultaneaously killed anyway - and enhanced AA does just that : kill faster.

  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
14 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

That being nonsense does not change enhanced AA kill squadrons faster.

 

Which is irrelevant as the amount of attacks you take is in the same in the end.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[XTREM]
[XTREM]
Players
369 posts
10,045 battles
10 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

That being nonsense does not change enhanced AA kill squadrons faster. 

 

More then one squadrom potentially drop more torpedo's or bombs sinking you if you are a stock AA defenceless nub. It is therefore important AA kills squadrons faster, and enhanced ones do just that : kill faster.

 

No one is denying enhancing AA kills planes faster, everyone is saying you don't need it.

 

The stock AA kills enemy squadrons just fine. In fact, in general CVs have some of the best AA defences at their tiers.

Added to the fact that DoTs are almost nothing to CVs, and you can drop fighters voluntarily AND automatically, it already presents a hard target for enemy CV to attack. The distance needed to travel to you to chip away at your health, the shreking their planes will take, and thus time wasted for them notwithstanding. 

 

Of course sniping is still possible. 

Does it happen often enough, do planes pose that much of a threat to a CV, that you need to take AA build to save yourself, when those skill points are better spent elswhere?

 

No.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
[BHSFL]
Players
1,810 posts
6,028 battles
12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Which is irrelevant as the amount of attacks you take is in the same in the end.

 

Nope....2 squadrons lay more torpedo's in the water then 1 squadron. 2 squadrons of divebombers drop more bombs then 1 divebomber squadron.

 

You simply face 2 x the potential DPM of a single CV attack, unless you stop them from dropping what they could drop. Killing faster does that.....result in less weapons being able to be launched at you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BFS]
Beta Tester
493 posts

I also have a problem with the headline versus the story... if anything it should state that the CV’s themselves (the ships) are overpowered, since they’re able to singlehandedly fend off two enemy CV’s?

 

I’m not sure what to think about that?

 

It takes the CV vs. CV play away from the game....

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

Nope....2 squadrons lay more torpedo's in the water then 1 squadron. 2 squadrons of divebombers drop more bombs then 1 divebomber squadron.

 

Except they both only get one, at most two attacks. And will only get that many attacks regardless of how much AA you take.

Because AA does not disperse over multiple squads. It applies the same damage to each individual squad. Aka if your AA deals 500 DPS, squad one will take 500 DPS and squad two will also take 500 DPS. Taking AA skills doesn't suddenly evaporate one of them.

 

Unless ofc one of them is too stupid to dodge flak, which means he will die before reaching you regardless of AA skills because base flak damage + base DPS is enough to shred any incoming squad.

So how about providing a replay?

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RMKI]
Players
9 posts

Oh well, 2 CVs focusing against one CV worked before 0.8, teamplay worked before 0.8...

What is the point here? Other than the fact, this time, the single CV survived the attacks?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,973 posts
3,349 battles
2 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Took me 5 mins in a Lexington to whittle an almost full HP Yamato to death. 5 mins from a T8 CV on a T10 BB. And yet a CV survived the constant attack from 2 CV’s... yeah. Balanced... totally balanced...

Took me 5 seconds to shoot a broadside CV to death... in Hood.

And even less in a Gnevny.... :Smile_trollface:

 

(it takes quite an a effort to kill a good Gnevny though, no matter im Hood or in CV). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
3,999 posts
15,042 battles
2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Took me 5 seconds to shoot a broadside CV to death... in Hood.

And even less in a Gnevny.... :Smile_trollface:

 

(it takes quite an a effort to kill a good Gnevny though, no matter im Hood or in CV). 

 

And how long did it take you to get in range to do the shooting?

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
57 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

And how long did it take you to get in range to do the shooting?

 

*inb4 range mod and spotter plane* :Smile_trollface:

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TF57]
Players
55 posts
5,868 battles

The 2 CV per team teamwork tactic can really hurt if the CV captains know what there doing, saw it today 4 CVs & 4 DDs in a domination match, I DD headed to the A cap the other DD headed to the C cap, thinking 1 CV will come my way the other to the other cap, was very wrong when I saw the other poor DD getting pounce on by both CVs, didn't take long for them to remove him from the game. Luckily for me they stayed on that sided of the map and moved on to the next victim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
[BHSFL]
Players
1,810 posts
6,028 battles
5 hours ago, ahaelson said:

Oh well, 2 CVs focusing against one CV worked before 0.8, teamplay worked before 0.8...

What is the point here? Other than the fact, this time, the single CV survived the attacks?

 

Well inspecting the AA on the Enterprise - the ship that resisted the 2 CV - they focussed on the wrong CV in this game......

 

50 x 20 mm guns, 16 x 40 mm guns, 24 x 40 mm guns and 8 x 127 mm guns. That is 98 various range AA guns together. Must be the heaviest combined AA platform in all the game and it has a fighter patrol up to boot.

 

Imagine what happens if you take most AA skills and the AA module, increasing ROF, range, continuous AA damage and number of long range heavy FLAK bursts.....it will be completely immune to any air attack as long as it moves. Such things have their use, when only/mainly CV remain in a match turning such a CV  into an unstoppable capping force where other battered ships fail and sink under relentless air attacks.....happens quite a lot actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,973 posts
3,349 battles
3 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

 

And how long did it take you to get in range to do the shooting?

Not that long... usually after cap then we'll see where we go, and sometimes we meet the CV.

I wouldn't know how long it would take to get to 'shooting distance'. Depends on the CV as well. 

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

*inb4 range mod and spotter plane* :Smile_trollface:

Hood has ~18km range and no spotter plane. Probably can be done with other ships a bit better. I imagine Lyon or something like that.

We've done it in Texas, which has a spotter plane, then you can shoot ~

22km. I've shot a CV at that distance, killed him too (with Arizona)

but usually it takes more than 3 salvoes and you'll be lucky to kill him due to dispersion. 3 shots is all the spotter gives, and you sure cannot catch him.

 

In Hood, you sure WILL kill him. And he cannot run... at least not faster than Hood.

So far only ONE T10 CV bit the dust (Conqueror...) but I do not especially go looking for them, usually.

However if I find one in range... it's another red ship that needs to be killed.

 

I do not understand the whine about CVs being OP, they are much easier to kill than any damn cruiser or BB.

First of all there's only so many spots they will hide, and then they are about the largest target you can get and usually suffer from tunnelvision.

Then, yes they have fast top speed but the acceleration and steering sucks heaps. And they will not shoot back much, either.

I'd rather chase a CV than a Mino or a Moskva or even a Shima. 

 

1 hour ago, martin035 said:

Luckily for me they stayed on that sided of the map and moved on to the next victim.

They usually will. Flying over half the map take time, plus they might accidentally meet some good AA ship,

so they either arrive at the target half-squadded or sometimes not at all.

The only thing I'll fly over half the map for is a nice, fat T6 premium West-Virginia... :Smile_trollface:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

50 x 20 mm guns, 16 x 40 mm guns, 24 x 40 mm guns and 8 x 127 mm guns. That is 98 various range AA guns together. Must be the heaviest combined AA platform in all the game and it has a fighter patrol up to boot.

 

Number of guns is irrelevant because AA is no longer calculated from individual gun DPS but simply given a value for long, mid and close range respectively.

And no, E would not be immune from air attack because the first attack always goes through regardless of whether you're attacking a full AA CV, a full AA Mino or even a full AA Jean Bart.

 

Have you really learned nothing about the fundamental game mechanics you've been using or facing so far?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
[BHSFL]
Players
1,810 posts
6,028 battles
26 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Number of guns is irrelevant because AA is no longer calculated from individual gun DPS but simply given a value for long, mid and close range respectively.

And no, E would not be immune from air attack because the first attack always goes through regardless of whether you're attacking a full AA CV, a full AA Mino or even a full AA Jean Bart.

 

Have you really learned nothing about the fundamental game mechanics you've been using or facing so far?

 

First attack coming though does not mean those torpedo's or bombs will hit......however, NONE of these aircraft will return.......

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

First attack coming though does not mean those torpedo's or bombs will hit

 

Which is up to the enemy CV player and not you as a CV is an incredibly easy target to actually attack, being among the biggest ships in the game and the most sluggish by far.

 

3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

however, NONE of these aircraft will return

 

They won't anyway regardless of whether you take AA skills or not.

Which is where squad shortening comes in.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,468 posts
8,149 battles
10 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Putting aside @Beastofwar's ridiculous self-delusion for a moment, what is actually being demonstrated here is the outrageous survivability of CVs as a class. The fact that two CVs made repeated, concerted, synchronised efforts to kill an enemy ship and FAILED solely because the target they chose was another CV is testament to how broken the impementation is. I would be quite surprised if any other ship in the game, including the most intensively AA-fit, AA specialist ships, could withstand that amount of pressure and survive.

 

I know that the CV apologists will come out with reasons as to why this is "perfectly fine and totally balanced because... blah, blah, blah" and, frankly, I am sitting here waiting,  with a sense of growing amusement, to read those incoming excuses.

Afaik, WG made CVs hard to sink for enemy CVs to prevent them from doing the CV sniping thing. You seem to have forgotten how lame (and common!) this used to be before the rework and in this WG has succeeded at mostly eliminating this problem.

And what an awfully negative post yours is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,468 posts
8,149 battles
1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Number of guns is irrelevant because AA is no longer calculated from individual gun DPS but simply given a value for long, mid and close range respectively.

And no, E would not be immune from air attack because the first attack always goes through regardless of whether you're attacking a full AA CV, a full AA Mino or even a full AA Jean Bart.

 

Have you really learned nothing about the fundamental game mechanics you've been using or facing so far?

But it is when calculating AA DPS when mounts start getting destroyed, or is this also a thing of the past?

 

And why did they change the battle whatever UI to show only percentages and not raw DPS anymore? That's just kinda annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
3 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

But it is when calculating AA DPS when mounts start getting destroyed, or is this also a thing of the past?

 

And why did they change the battle whatever UI to show only percentages and not raw DPS anymore? That's just kinda annoying.

 

No, but it's probably just going down in percentages.

Hence why percentages are displayed in the UI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,468 posts
8,149 battles
7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

No, but it's probably just going down in percentages.

Hence why percentages are displayed in the UI.

Both used to be displayed in the ui. Now only the percentages are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
Just now, NothingButTheRain said:

Both used to be displayed in the ui. Now only the percentages are.

 

I am well aware.

It probably has to do with avoiding confusion about AA DPS and true DPS. If e.g. AA DPS gets displayed and someone checks it they'll find that their AA doesn't do the displayed damage due to hit probability. If they display true DPS on the other hand people are gonna ask why it is lower than the value given in port.

 

Can't think of any other reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,468 posts
8,149 battles
10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

I am well aware.It probably has to do with avoiding confusion about AA DPS and true DPS.

This got me LOL in real life here as this has got me nothing but confused! :cap_book:

The percentages are useless as they mean nothing at all without any context (the context being the raw damage numbers).

 

Like, "wow, my AA has been damaged by 23%! Well, what exactly is the damage? 23% of what?".

Quote

If e.g. AA DPS gets displayed and someone checks it they'll find that their AA doesn't do the displayed damage due to hit probability. If they display true DPS on the other hand people are gonna ask why it is lower than the value given in port.

 

Can't think of any other reason.

During the battle, both max and current damage values were given (like 45/60 or something, meaning 45DPS of the 60DPS is still in working order).

 

If someone can't even firgure this out, they really deserve to not know if this makes WG consider buffing their handicapreduction and more sensible people who don't want to bother memorising all AA damage values are getting shafted basically.

 

I think your guess is somewhere in the right corner. There's fewer number to look at now. Too bad WG decided to remove the wrong numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,507 posts
15,221 battles
Just now, NothingButTheRain said:

During the battle, both max and current damage values were given (like 45/60 or something, meaning 45DPS of the 60DPS is still in working order).

 

Allow me to explain:

There are two relevant values given in port when it comes to DPS. One is the DPS value, the other is hit probability. AA DPS is multiplied with hit probability to get true DPS that is actually applied to the aircraft.

That means if you have an AA DPS of 200 but only 50% hit probability, your true DPS is 100.

 

So if you display AA DPS in the UI and someone runs a test, he'll see that the value given is a lot higher than what is actually applied to the plane.

If you display true DPS however people are inevitably going to ask why the DPS given in the UI is much lower than what is displayed in port.

 

Thus it is far easier to just give a generic percentage number.

Personally I would prefer having true DPS displayed.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,468 posts
8,149 battles
5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Allow me to explain:

There are two relevant values given in port when it comes to DPS. One is the DPS value, the other is hit probability. AA DPS is multiplied with hit probability to get true DPS that is actually applied to the aircraft.

That means if you have an AA DPS of 200 but only 50% hit probability, your true DPS is 100.

 

So if you display AA DPS in the UI and someone runs a test, he'll see that the value given is a lot higher than what is actually applied to the plane.

If you display true DPS however people are inevitably going to ask why the DPS given in the UI is much lower than what is displayed in port.

 

Thus it is far easier to just give a generic percentage number.

Personally I would prefer having true DPS displayed.

Fair enough.

 

I would've preferred the true DPS as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×