2 CV focussing on a single CV works...

[Beastofwar]

Who says "team" play does not work ? The concensus seems to be CV cannot be sunk untill mid-late match. Just a few minutes ago i was shown this to be a failed concept of thinking as i was very nearly sunk just after a few minutes after match start.

 

How was this done ? Simple : by 2 CV's focussing their torpedo bombers on a single enemy CV, catching it in old RTS style "torpedo sandwich" from which there is no escape taking damage. This was so succesfull i lost 3/4 of my CV health when they finally ran out of aircraft...or lost the appetite to continue. Because of their continuous spotting there was even 21 km or so incoming BB shells as well, despite me bing near the rear map edge far behind allied lines. No "concealment" would have mattered.

 

Lucky for me i am a "clueless noob" that actually has heavily invested in strenghtning my CV's AA so that cost these 2 CV dearly with torpedo bombers they could not recover. After the 2nd attack they came with divebombers. But still i needed  to litterally defend my CV with my own aircraft dumping fighter consumables around it, not being able to attack enemy ships myself. !! Had i not done that, they would have succeeded.

 

In other words : they shut me down completely, but failed because of my captain skill point distribution. Because they failed they could no longer help their team and lost. I was still alive and could resume attacking the enemy ships. And eventually exact revenge upon those CV.

 

What i want to say is :

 

- Changing "Meta" means players changing strategy and tactics. Since there are 2 CV on each side players begin to exploit combining their power...because they can.

- There are always players that come up with unusual tactics that can make you lose if you play and invest points in a predicatble manner. Without extreme punishig enhanced AA i would have sunk.

- there are no "wasted" skill point for every situation.

- You cannot do anything "wrong" as CV that will would not have put you in danger ( except for not moving ) since these guys hunted me and were planning that before the match.

- They were not stupid as they would have sunk  CV players without enhanced AA for certain. When you see your CV sinking after a few minutes after match start, who would be called stupid you think ?

- Maybe they were succesfull with this before and/or did so in more matches  and could start a broad accepted strategy of doing this in every 4 CV match......

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

When you encounter teamwork after 5000 games :O

[ColonelPete]

15 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Who says "team" play does not work ? The concensus seems to be CV cannot be sunk untill mid-late match. Just a few minutes ago i was shown this to be a failed concept of thinking as i was very nearly sunk just after a few minutes after match start.

 

How was this done ? Simple : by 2 CV's focussing their torpedo bombers on a single enemy CV, catching it in old RTS style "torpedo sandwich" from which there is no escape taking damage. This was so succesfull i lost 3/4 of my CV health when they finally ran out of aircraft...or lost the appetite to continue. Because of their continuous spotting there was even 21 km or so incoming BB shells as well, despite me bing near the rear map edge far behind allied lines. No "concealment" would have mattered.

I am not sure what you are arguing. The headline does not fit the text.

[Beastofwar]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I am not sure what you are arguing. The headline does not fit the text.

 

Because my CV seems to be very differently build then most others......for which they rediculed me or even blame me for "losing matches this way"

 

This difference cost these 2 CV their aircraft, plus some manual defending with fighter consumable drops since even that was not enough.

 

Players wtih non-enhanced AA will not be able to withstand a combined attack from 2 CV simultaneous.

 

That is the difference between nearly sininking and actually sinking when you encounter this. Since there are 4 CV in most matches with CV now you can expect to see such strategy more often.

[Xi_Tian]

How is that a suprise even? ♡

Is it an issue? ☆

[ColonelPete]

Just now, Beastofwar said:

Players wtih non-enhanced AA will not be able to withstand a combined attack from 2 CV simultaneous.

AA upgrades for CV are not discouraged. One should just not overdo it.

 

And most CV will survive that most of the time, because:

• not all CV players are good
• two random players are not well coordinated
• the target CV might be close to teammates
• teammates might help the CV with AA

And even if they succeed, the ressources and time needed to do that probably put their team behind.

[El2aZeR]

Oh, guess what, I had that happen several times at this point as well. And I'm not AA spec.

I deplaned both enemy CVs and survived every single time.

 

So yeah, your AA skills did nothing for your survival. CV base AA will easily do the job as well.

Congrats on proving what a gigantic waste taking AA skills on a CV is.

 

Also implying that you actually need to cross drop a CV, one of the biggest and the most sluggish class by far, is hilarious.

[Beastofwar]

29 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

AA upgrades for CV are not discouraged. One should just not overdo it.

 

And most CV will survive that most of the time, because:

• not all CV players are good
• two random players are not well coordinated
• the target CV might be close to teammates
• teammates might help the CV with AA

And even if they succeed, the ressources and time needed to do that probably put their team behind.

 

Well i'm not going to ague with most of that...

 

But i can tell you i felt pretty alarmed when i saw what was going on, that they really inteded on sinking specifically me out of all enemies and just after minutes after map start, probably flying detours to do it......all options from then on are non-usual. Have you defended your CV with your own aircraft yet ? Felt as a pretty desperate thing to do for me.....

 

When i think of it....they were not taking detours for their follow up runs, they arrived too fast after their last attack for that......must have been using "ninja" concealment captain points and module overflying the small gaps in the enemy line unmolested. Well that worked quite impressive, but obviously that does not protect against long, mid and short range AA opening up on them at their target....getting them killed nonetheless.

[Miragetank90]

22 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

So yeah, your AA skills did nothing for your survival. CV base AA will easily do the job as well.

Congrats on proving what a gigantic waste taking AA skills on a CV is.

 

You can keep saying it

He won't ever get it at this point

 

[Beastofwar]

3 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

 

You can keep saying it

He won't ever get it at this point

 

 

But you will at some point i guess...sinking like noobs 3 min from map start. Just like DD in fact, you will be their new duck to rape as DD become more scarce.

[Miragetank90]

Just now, Beastofwar said:

 

But you will at some point i guess...sinking like noobs 3 min from map start. Just like DD in fact.

 

Don't hold yer breath.

 

In any case, I'd like to see some proof to back up this be-all, end-all claim

 

38 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Players wtih non-enhanced AA will not be able to withstand a combined attack from 2 CV simultaneous.

 

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

4 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

But you will at some point i guess...sinking like noobs 3 min from map start. Just like DD in fact, you will be their new duck to rape as DD become more scarce.

 

What is it with you and the phrase “duck r**e.” Awful use of such fowl language.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

The concensus seems to be CV cannot be sunk untill mid-late match.

Yes can. If one of my div-mates plays CV and I am in a BB we can sink it within minutes. 

No AA or secondaries gonna save you mate, if we really want to. He spots it, and I bury it. 

[xxNihilanxx]

Putting aside @Beastofwar's ridiculous self-delusion for a moment, what is actually being demonstrated here is the outrageous survivability of CVs as a class. The fact that two CVs made repeated, concerted, synchronised efforts to kill an enemy ship and FAILED solely because the target they chose was another CV is testament to how broken the impementation is. I would be quite surprised if any other ship in the game, including the most intensively AA-fit, AA specialist ships, could withstand that amount of pressure and survive.

 

I know that the CV apologists will come out with reasons as to why this is "perfectly fine and totally balanced because... blah, blah, blah" and, frankly, I am sitting here waiting,  with a sense of growing amusement, to read those incoming excuses.

[Bear__Necessities]

4 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Putting aside @Beastofwar's ridiculous self-delusion for a moment, what is actually being demonstrated here is the outrageous survivability of CVs as a class. The fact that two CVs made repeated, concerted, synchronised efforts to kill an enemy ship and FAILED solely because the target they chose was another CV is testament to how broken the impementation is. I would be quite surprised if any other ship in the game, including the most intensively AA-fit, AA specialist ships, could withstand that amount of pressure and survive.

 

I know that the CV apologists will come out with reasons as to why this is "perfectly fine and totally balanced because... blah, blah, blah" and, frankly, I am sitting here waiting,  with a sense of growing amusement, to read those incoming excuses.

Took me 5 mins in a Lexington to whittle an almost full HP Yamato to death. 5 mins from a T8 CV on a T10 BB. And yet a CV survived the constant attack from 2 CV’s... yeah. Balanced... totally balanced...

[Beastofwar]

27 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Putting aside @Beastofwar's ridiculous self-delusion for a moment, what is actually being demonstrated here is the outrageous survivability of CVs as a class. The fact that two CVs made repeated, concerted, synchronised efforts to kill an enemy ship and FAILED solely because the target they chose was another CV is testament to how broken the impementation is. I would be quite surprised if any other ship in the game, including the most intensively AA-fit, AA specialist ships, could withstand that amount of pressure and survive.

 

I know that the CV apologists will come out with reasons as to why this is "perfectly fine and totally balanced because... blah, blah, blah" and, frankly, I am sitting here waiting,  with a sense of growing amusement, to read those incoming excuses.

 

Other CV with diffrent builds would have sunk.....Being able to alter what your ship does to some extent is a feature of the game, you can choose to strenghten AA or to leave it stock. Stock AA could NOT have resisted 2 CV. But if you  payed attention enahncing AA was still not enough....had to defend with dropping fighter consumables around the CV as well to  fend them off. But it made enough difference as without it nothing would have mattered, while now desperate measures proved  succesful.

 

That is what made the AA in general seem so extremely overpowered right after the rework as almost EVERYONE took AA skills and modules, while some others still complained AA was too weak.....that is choosing captian points and modules doing that....not WG fiddling. That is probably why is is so difficult to '''balance'' in the first place.....you need to account for several possible builds.

 

Guess what the "mandatory" build will be if ganging up on a singled out CV ever gets in fashion ? Because it will be very attractive if it works - it will with stock AA CV - and you can blap enemy CV out of existence in about 3-5 mins from match start. DD will want this, as they can do their old stuff again, undisturbed. If you noticed more strategies are already emerging using BB long range fire for that too.....CV won't be king-o-the-hill for much longer.

 

 

 

 

[xxNihilanxx]

24 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Other CV with diffrent builds would have sunk.....Being able to alter what your ship does to some extent is a feature of the game, you can choose to strenghten AA or to leave it stock. Stock AA could NOT have resisted 2 CV. But if you  payed attention enahncing AA was still not enough....had to defend with dropping fighter consumables around the CV as well to  fend them off. But it made enough difference as without it nothing would have mattered, while now desperate measures proved  succesful.

 

That is what made the AA in general seem so extremely overpowered right after the rework as almost EVERYONE took AA skills and modules, while some others still complained AA was too weak.....that is choosing captian points and modules doing that....not WG fiddling. That is probably why is is so difficult to '''balance'' in the first place.....you need to account for several possible builds.

 

Guess what the "mandatory" build will be if ganging up on a singled out CV ever gets in fashion ? Because it will be very attractive if it works - it will with stock AA CV - and you can blap enemy CV out of existence in about 3-5 mins from match start. DD will want this, as they can do their old stuff again, undisturbed. If you noticed more strategies are already emerging using BB long range fire for that too.....CV won't be king-o-the-hill for much longer.

 

 

 

 

 

I literally began the post you are replying to with "Putting aside @Beastofwar's self-delusion..." so what on earth makes you think that those self-same delusions could form any part of a cogent response?

 

Compared to you the growing number of "flat-earthers" appear to have something akin to a solid proposition.

[Europizza]

You don't need an CV AA centric build to withstand 2 CV's ganging up on you. You just need to blob up with the other CV.

[El2aZeR]

42 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

I would be quite surprised if any other ship in the game, including the most intensively AA-fit, AA specialist ships, could withstand that amount of pressure and survive.

 

Well, I can actually demonstrate that a CV does die pretty fast to (competent) air attack if that helps:

Spoiler

 

Enemy Lex dies ~2 mins after first attack. All damage dealt by me as can be seen here:

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/9009-what-were-your-greatest-gaming-achievements-today/?page=418&tab=comments#comment-2950327

Haku dies in about the same timespan while focused by 2 CVs.

 

Though please ignore that this was a 5k+ base exp match. I don't think that helps my "CV apologist narrative". 

 

The issue is that in any practical early/mid game scenario you can't bring this kind of DPM to bare as you need to fly across the entire map while avoiding enemy concentrations of AA, dragging out kill time. Add to that the hilarious survivability buff WG gave CVs by cutting down DoT damage (because according to WG we are too stupid to be given hull control) and you get an extremely undesirable target solely because it takes far too long to kill it.

If a CV willingly makes himself a target by moving just as or closer than his teammates then all hands are off. Which basically never happens because (usually) even potatoes know not to charge directly into enemy lines with their CV. I've seen that happen once so far, he promptly regretted it.

 

Take from that what you will. Personally I think in the current iteration it'd actually be better to just remove the hull from the match and let planes fly in from the map border. Which is either sad or hilarious depending on who you ask. Or both.

 

34 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Stock AA could NOT have resisted 2 CV.

 

Because as we all know AA gets less efficient when faced with multiple squads just like back in the RTS iteration!

Oh wait...

[beercrazy]

you can still cv snipe at times

I have had my Lexington cv sniped by a tier 10 jap cv

it is hard to do and requires your team to run away but it is possible

 

[Bear__Necessities]

The gift that keeps on giving

[CptBarney]

7 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

The gift that keeps on giving

I wonder if yasakaraxx will make a comeback?

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

I wonder if yasakaraxx will make a comeback?

 

I made sure he doesn't.

Spoiler

 

 

[CptBarney]

5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I made sure he doesn't.

  Hide contents

 

 

Bloody buli lol.

 

A few Q's, around the 3-4mins mark were you searching for him? Also why did you fire your rockets off when you had no targets in front of you?

 

R.i.P smoll king of dots, cause of death buli by el2azer.

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

A few Q's, around the 3-4mins mark were you searching for him? Also why did you fire your rockets off when you had no targets in front of you?

 

Yup. Figured he would be sneaking along the map border in an attempt to get to me. Which judging by his position when I spotted him and his actions later in the match he probably was.

Firing then abandoning is a much faster process than waiting for them to go on cd then abandoning. If you know you can't make another attack with a squad, don't.