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I HATE RICHELIEU

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So Lyon was a total blast, I had a great time playing her as a brawler with manual secondaries, and using those 16 guns up close and personal against the enemy. Her manual secondaries were very good against DDs and cruisers too, overall I had a lot of fun in her that was comparable to me in Bismarck or Massachusetts. 

And then I made the mistake of getting Richelieu when I got enough XP for it. I CAN'T GET THE BLASTED SHIP TO WORK. Play her as a bow tanker? If I wanted that sort of gameplay I'd stick to my Yamato and I already hate that ship to its guts. Play her as a speed flanker? The slightest broadside you show to the enemy you can expect to eat pens and citadels for days. Spec her out fully for AA? Her AA believe it or not is GARBAGE WORSE than even the Lyon when I specced her for manual SECONDARIES. Fire HE more than AP in Richelieu because of her anemic guns at T8? If I wanted to play HE spamming games I'd break my cruisers out for that TYVM, and her AP is just rubbish against anything other than close range cruisers and in this current meta GOOD LUCK GETTING THAT CLOSE before HE spam melts you down. 

In short, I HATE RICHELIEU. Change my mind about her please, because if I take another five more losses in her I swear I'm going to sell her and forget about the rest of the French BB line. 

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1 hour ago, TheIdesOfMarch93 said:

So Lyon was a total blast, I had a great time playing her as a brawler with manual secondaries, and using those 16 guns up close and personal against the enemy. Her manual secondaries were very good against DDs and cruisers too, overall I had a lot of fun in her that was comparable to me in Bismarck or Massachusetts. 

And then I made the mistake of getting Richelieu when I got enough XP for it. I CAN'T GET THE BLASTED SHIP TO WORK. Play her as a bow tanker? If I wanted that sort of gameplay I'd stick to my Yamato and I already hate that ship to its guts. Play her as a speed flanker? The slightest broadside you show to the enemy you can expect to eat pens and citadels for days. Spec her out fully for AA? Her AA believe it or not is GARBAGE WORSE than even the Lyon when I specced her for manual SECONDARIES. Fire HE more than AP in Richelieu because of her anemic guns at T8? If I wanted to play HE spamming games I'd break my cruisers out for that TYVM, and her AP is just rubbish against anything other than close range cruisers and in this current meta GOOD LUCK GETTING THAT CLOSE before HE spam melts you down. 

In short, I HATE RICHELIEU. Change my mind about her please, because if I take another five more losses in her I swear I'm going to sell her and forget about the rest of the French BB line. 

Get freexp and unlock the alsace, trust me thats a ship you will like. I bypassed the richeliu because it is crap.....

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Might be in the minority here, but the Richeliue is a solid BB IMO. The common mistake however is to go "all guns in the front, better bowtank everytime". The only times you should bowtank is when you are at a safe distance to disengage or only face a limited amount of enemies. I tend to just use her speed to reposition quicker or get out from a stationary position.

It just works for me if I'm honest, and apart from the sqishyness I can't seem to find the hate about it honestly. Guns work, AA is alright, it handles no real worse than the others.

 

Keeper for me.

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22 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Might be in the minority here, but the Richeliue is a solid BB IMO. The common mistake however is to go "all guns in the front, better bowtank everytime". The only times you should bowtank is when you are at a safe distance to disengage or only face a limited amount of enemies. I tend to just use her speed to reposition quicker or get out from a stationary position.

It just works for me if I'm honest, and apart from the sqishyness I can't seem to find the hate about it honestly. Guns work, AA is alright, it handles no real worse than the others.

 

Keeper for me.

Not alone in  feeling this, at least, I personally feel the same way.

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With the French battleships it is pretty important to know bow armours, because you can't lol pen any cruiser. You can't overmatch the bow armours of US CA and German cruisers, the others you can just shoot through the bow. 
Also with your 32mm armour layout the last thing you want to do is bowtank. Use your speed to get into good positions to support your team. Perhaps you need to switch more often to HE than in other battleships, but I use plenty of HE shells in my Montana as well. AP being the only ammo choice for a BB is a hoax...

She isn't a bad ship at all, in the contrary she is even fun when played right. 

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2 hours ago, TheIdesOfMarch93 said:

Spec her out fully for AA? Her AA believe it or not is GARBAGE WORSE than even the Lyon when I specced her for manual SECONDARIES.

AA in general usually depends on what you are up against, unless you are something like Mino, Worcester, Des Moines or Salem with their high continuous dps zone of nope for enemy CVs. As dps for most ships is mostly dodgeable, if the CV is good enough, they just don't need to give a damn. They may loses 1-4 planes, but they sure get their strikes in. Played my new Kaga yesterday, torping Kurfürst isn't even hard. And unlike regular German AA, it isn't even restricted to the short range 105 mm guns, nor are Kaga planes especially tanky or even especially fast like GZ. Thus also, what constitutes full AA spec on a T8? Basically AFT is worthless, BFT is decent, if your ship has high continuous and you can combine it with Manual AA. +2 explosions AA module is ok, but basically, there isn't much you can do to buff AA on a BB. Cruisers and DDs get a bit more AA power from spec (though BBs get better base values), given with BFT, Manual AA and defAA, you get three boosts to lift some mediocre values out of mediocrity. Some 100 continuous dps on a defAA DD's long-range can then be boosted to 110 with BFT, 198 with Manual AA's 80% boost and then to 396 with defAA. On a BB with only BFT and Manual AA of 50%, your options to boost beyond base values is limited. Overall, Richelieu sits in the same boat as Monarch, in that most AA is mid-range and by 3.5 km range, you are not going to stop much anymore. But that's normal and the Lyon is hardly better, being mostly helped by being up vs T6 or T8 CVs, instead of T6 to T10 CVs.

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It's a very mediocre ship. As per advice from other players in another thread, playing her like a Batttlecruiser is more suitable, but the kicker is still those awful, awful, awful guns. They're too inaccurate and borderline unusable even at close range. 

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For me the Richie-lulu was okay-ish.

Accuracy sucks, gun caliber is on the lower side, armor is meh, only two turrets combined with their low armor means that it is not rare to lose 50% of your firepower in a lucky BB salvo. Bow-tanking really does not work as you take a lot of HE damage and AP can break your guns. I found it decent to play once I got used to the speed and just zipped around like a BC. The ship should not be played up too close, but due to the inaccurate guns should not be played at long range either. Stick with the team - do not go in first, but don't stay too far back either. Learn when to disengage - if your flank is about to collapse, take defensive position and prepare to run away. Avoid 1 vs 1 battles with BBs unless they are showing more broadside to you than you are to them. A fair fight is a fight you could lose - look for flanking shots when possible and prioritize CA/CLs.

 

You can work around the weaknesses of this ship but it is, as @KillSlim said - mediocre.

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I may also belong to a minority, since i loved Richie but hated Lyon and Alsace (basically any BB with sigma < 1.8 is a mood killer).

 

Richeleu was a blast. Possibly THE best tier 8 BB.

Play it at 10-15 km range, kiting away and use both AP and HE as appropriate. Despite the gun-layout, bowtanking is a mistake - unless you are literally in a 1v1 situation where it is viable. 

Contrary to the Lyon and the Alsace, it has punchy, accurate guns which makes AP viable (Alsace has nerfed sigma which makes it basicly an oversized HE spamming cruiser).

The accuracy makes the non-existent armor a moot point, as it can be played from range. 

As to AP you will need to know it can't lol-pen all cruisers as has already been said.

 

On 4/15/2019 at 6:05 PM, KillSlim said:

It's a very mediocre ship. As per advice from other players in another thread, playing her like a Batttlecruiser is more suitable, but the kicker is still those awful, awful, awful guns. They're too inaccurate and borderline unusable even at close range. 

Considering Richileu has much better sigma than either Lyon and Alsace, I just wonder how you coped with those :Smile-_tongue:

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11 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Considering Richileu has much better sigma than either Lyon and Alsace, I just wonder how you coped with those :Smile-_tongue:

Presumably helped by the  extra gun barrels. The Richie does reward good aim while the Lyon was more than just a bit of a shot gun (not played the Alsace yet)

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14 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Presumably helped by the  extra gun barrels. The Richie does reward good aim while the Lyon was more than just a bit of a shot gun (not played the Alsace yet)

A lot of people seem to think that. It's a case of Fuso/Nagato and New Mex / Colorado.

My experience with Alsace is that firing AP at anything over 10 km is a waste of time, even if the target is a cruiser sitting broadside on, grounded and unable to move. 

HE is the way to go, avoid Yamato/Mushi like the plague and never bowtank. I asked for help playing this thing and people suggested play it like Zao. However, I dont have a Zao :Smile_child:

For maximal hilarity instead I tried something else: Alsace secondary build (needs IFHE) is actually viable (although the armor is NOT suited for it). 

 

Fortunately the Republique is worth it all. Those 431 mm rifles are my favorite guns in the game.

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34 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

A lot of people seem to think that. It's a case of Fuso/Nagato and New Mex / Colorado.

If the Colorado wasn't so *edited!* slow I might have kept her to be perfectly honest. On the fence about whether or not  to keep the Nagato, but blimey, my kills in her include three tier 9's at last count (a Alsace (ironic, I know), a Musashi, and a Neptune) so far.

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23 minutes ago, lafeel said:

If the Colorado wasn't so *edited!* slow I might have kept her to be perfectly honest. On the fence about whether or not  to keep the Nagato, but blimey, my kills in her include three tier 9's at last count (a Alsace (ironic, I know), a Musashi, and a Neptune) so far.

Colorado is still my most played ship, and that was before all the buffs and the german BBs ruined her as brawler. Nagato is the only IJN boat i kept short of Yamato, mostly for operations.

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8 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

For maximal hilarity instead I tried something else: Alsace secondary build (needs IFHE) is actually viable (although the armor is NOT suited for it). 

 

Even without IFHE the Alsace is hilarious with a secondary build, those 100 mm are great firestarters. And I tend to find that the Alsace is a more comfortable and easy to handle platform for secondaries (Repu is too big and squishy for my liking in terms of a secondary build), and with the reload mod you still spit out plenty of shells while manuvering to get into a secondary position.

 

Offtopic rambling over.

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:42 AM, GulvkluderGuld said:

Considering Richileu has much better sigma than either Lyon and Alsace, I just wonder how you coped with those :Smile-_tongue:

 

I don't have Alsace, I'm stuck on this floating dumpster fire that tries and fails to be an NC/cruiser-hybrid-thing. How did I cope with Lyon? It was incredible because of it's 16 guns, best T7 battleship by far, it's too good in fact. If you're on top of your positioning game you will desolate most enemies you fight, I don't fear anything in that ship thanks to it's effective AA. 

T7.png

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26 minutes ago, KillSlim said:

 

I don't have Alsace, I'm stuck on this floating dumpster fire that tries and fails to be an NC/cruiser-hybrid-thing. How did I cope with Lyon? It was incredible because of it's 16 guns, best T7 battleship by far, it's too good in fact. If you're on top of your positioning game you will desolate most enemies you fight, I don't fear anything in that ship thanks to it's effective AA. 

Play it at a bit longer ranges compared to the Lyon, it has the sigma for it. If you get he spammed by more than 2 ships, its time to gtfo.

Also it has AP that actually go where you aim it instead of landing consistent 5k volleys of overpens. 

My own Lyon stats are actually slightly better than Richeleu stats which surprised me a lot. I enjoyed richie much more due to consistent guns.

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I will add my voice to those advocating playing as a BC (more exactly a tier VIII Dunkerque). With Sierra Mike and the improved speed boost, few ships can run from you, and even then, not by much margin. Plus you can quickly redeploy to gain better angles on the reds.

Learnt that the hard way after Lyon, but in the end kinda enjoyed the ship. Lyon and Alsace feel significantly better tier for tier and more BB-like though.

Survivability+Concealment build is a must given the amount of HE/Burn damage you'll take, but with 30s fires it's ok most of the times. Save your DCP for when you have 3 fires burning.

Also like already said, if you're focused by 2+ cruisers/gunboat dds, silence the guns and gtfo (applies to Alsace and Rep as well).

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Very un consistent guns that lack penetration, are inaccurate with crapy dispersion. Richelieu is a very frustrating BB to play and I've played many. Few guns, long reload and that very long range you get at this tiers is un exploitable. Long time I did not had painful grind like this, maybe pre buff Izumo was even better :D.

The speed boost at this tiers : useless : I had a game where an Amagi was running away from me, afte'r  3 fu**king minutes I did just gain few hundred meters on him, then he turned and gave me a lesson.

Secondaries : useless 

Just the AA is worth something on this ship.

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Is Richelieu sister ship of JB? Because i find JB best brawler out there. Yesterday 40k salvo on Montana, 35k salvo on musashi.  My record salvo is 60k on broadside musashi. Today 3 cits on hindenburg at 15 km. Richelieu should have the same guns with same shells and pen values if im not mistaken. I realy dont see any problems with those french 380s. My main issue is he spam. JB is very alergic to he spam. Much more than other bbs... But guns i find to be good. I did put acc module on it and love to snipe bow in yam/musa at max range with he. Close in u will cit seattle thru bow. Donskoi and krohn too. Moskva is the only one that can resist JB when bow in, u have to angle on the side to get her. Others just vaporize. Dds get 8-10k he salvos with modules flying arround. Sometimes rng will troll u but hey, its a bb so it should.  JB was actualy the main reason why i want to get the alsace, it looks just like JB only with extra turret. Reason enough to start the line 

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2 hours ago, CPL_Sivi said:

Is Richelieu sister ship of JB?

Yes, she is.

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Ty Iafeel. So the guns should behave identical. OP try to put acc module on it, and adopt to the guns. Shells are fast and should reach ur target faster, so lead is shorter than on bbs like yamato or musa. Swap he on angled targets and bow on bbs, use ap on cruisers especialy uk ones. Also dont be afraid to come close to yamato or musashi if u have land to mask ur approach. Under 8 km ap will punch thru yama armor even when angled, snipe under the second bow turret, cit is guarantied. If u get them broadside midship hit can get up to 60k dmg. I did it. Guns are amazing upclose, but keep in mind frenchies are soft, dont risk it if they have he spammers as backup. They will get u before u can react. When fighting dds, he is the key. Timely swap between ap and he will give u good results. Atleast thats what jean bart feels like. Hope u will make her work.

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26 minutes ago, CPL_Sivi said:

Ty Iafeel. So the guns should behave identical. OP try to put acc module on it, and adopt to the guns. Shells are fast and should reach ur target faster, so lead is shorter than on bbs like yamato or musa. Swap he on angled targets and bow on bbs, use ap on cruisers especialy uk ones. Also dont be afraid to come close to yamato or musashi if u have land to mask ur approach. Under 8 km ap will punch thru yama armor even when angled, snipe under the second bow turret, cit is guarantied. If u get them broadside midship hit can get up to 60k dmg. I did it. Guns are amazing upclose, but keep in mind frenchies are soft, dont risk it if they have he spammers as backup. They will get u before u can react. When fighting dds, he is the key. Timely swap between ap and he will give u good results. Atleast thats what jean bart feels like. Hope u will make her work.

Jean Bart guns are:

  • more accurate due to higher sigma
  • faster with their reload

Jean Bart will give more consistent results, Richelieu basically has the gunnery performance of a Bismarck or Tirpitz. at sub-8 km punching through Yamato armour at the right angle is not a feat, but can be achieved by any high tier BB. Too bad if the Yamato is well-angled, it just craps all over you, because French BBs T8+ only get 32 mm of armour. Doesn't even need HE spammers to back it up, Yamato can trash you on its own.

 

Also, as underwhelming as the ship may be, if it comes down to pure brawling power, FdG obviously outperforms Jean Bart.

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In that case the guns dont behave the same. Then my previous statement doesnt stand. However i do believe that if u manage to push inside 8 km yama is as good as dead even with richi. Reload for jb is 22 secs without reload boost. Swap shells for 11 secs with skill. I guess that richie goes for 25 then. Same as km 380s. I could be wrong tho. But i find french version of guns much more punchier than german. That should be the same on both ships. Even with worse dispersion in a brawl you can win. Not counting the fact that when u come close enough yama cant lower his B turret guns enough to hit u. It isnt agile enough to keep good angle so citing it is unavoidable. I do speak from JB perspective tho, so efficency on richie is questionable. I guess i should go out and get damn thing to see for myself.

Btw i yet have to meet fdg to win a knifefight against jb. On paper stats favour fdg but ingame it just doesnt live up to it. I constantly got better secondary numbers with musashi vs fdg. Even posted in musa thread about it. And i find JB much superior to musa in a 1v1 brawl. Will try to get someone in training room and test fdg v jb in a brawl.

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1 hour ago, CPL_Sivi said:

Reload for jb is 22 secs without reload boost. Swap shells for 11 secs with skill. I guess that richie goes for 25 then

30s base reload.

1 hour ago, CPL_Sivi said:

Same as km 380s. I could be wrong tho. But i find french version of guns much more punchier than german.

Barely better than KM to the point that there is no real difference.

1 hour ago, CPL_Sivi said:

Even with worse dispersion in a brawl you can win. Not counting the fact that when u come close enough yama cant lower his B turret guns enough to hit u. It isnt agile enough to keep good angle so citing it is unavoidable. I do speak from JB perspective tho, so efficency on richie is questionable. I guess i should go out and get damn thing to see for myself.

If you don't die along the way. Also, if you zoom out, you can aim lower.

1 hour ago, CPL_Sivi said:

Btw i yet have to meet fdg to win a knifefight against jb. On paper stats favour fdg but ingame it just doesnt live up to it. I constantly got better secondary numbers with musashi vs fdg. Even posted in musa thread about it. And i find JB much superior to musa in a 1v1 brawl. Will try to get someone in training room and test fdg v jb in a brawl.

As someone who played FdG in T9 ranked vs Musashi and JB spam, have fun brawling a ship that matches your main gun reload and which melts you with IFHE secondaries because your armour is frankly crap. Obviously vs Musashi having actual armour that doesn't as easily get overmatched also makes FdG a better brawler there.

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On 4/13/2019 at 2:44 PM, ollonborre said:

Might be in the minority here, but the Richeliue is a solid BB IMO. The common mistake however is to go "all guns in the front, better bowtank everytime". The only times you should bowtank is when you are at a safe distance to disengage or only face a limited amount of enemies. I tend to just use her speed to reposition quicker or get out from a stationary position.

It just works for me if I'm honest, and apart from the sqishyness I can't seem to find the hate about it honestly. Guns work, AA is alright, it handles no real worse than the others.

 

Keeper for me.

 

Pretty much this. Lots of people go "oh, bowtank supreme", but fail to realise that it's one of the fastest T8 BB's and has excellent over-the-shoulder angles, so you can kite for days. Not sure she's as accurate as she was on release, but I remember her being pretty solid. 

Sidenote: the one time bowtanking is foolproof is if you are facing people who don'T understand HE.

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