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Ace42X

Premium Carriers - Best setups?

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1 hour ago, Saiyko said:

Not really tbh.

 

Like yesterday I wanted to see some of those premium cvs in action, I just went to twitch and watched the icons to see if any of them had planes on them :D (and I don't think anyone of them was particularly highly skilled)

 

Gaishu & notser & whoever on NA might be decent enough, but the NA meta (and yes I have an account there) is way too different to make anyone here learn anything from them. On EU I don't know anyone except for strangers123, but he only streams VERY occasionaly.

 

That's why I have been hoping for you, or someone like @Maaseru or @Alelos to start streaming, or putting more vids on yt :)

Are you going to bring me some VIEWS? :cap_haloween:

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1 hour ago, Alelos said:

Are you going to bring me some VIEWS? :cap_haloween:

Well let's start with one, singular :)

 

How are you liking your sparkly new zep?

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7 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Well let's start with one, singular :)

 

How are you liking your sparkly new zep?

I hate it!!!  Really now. It's not that I had terrible performance, but yesterday I had I think about 20% winrate. That's why so far I can't really say I liked it. I will give it another chance maybe tomorrow. Btw two times a DD tries to rush me. Yeah.. obviously you can imagine what happened. 

 

I might make a trial stream tomorrow, so I will let you know

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1 hour ago, Alelos said:

I hate it!!!  Really now. It's not that I had terrible performance, but yesterday I had I think about 20% winrate. That's why so far I can't really say I liked it. I will give it another chance maybe tomorrow. Btw two times a DD tries to rush me. Yeah.. obviously you can imagine what happened.  

 

I might make a trial stream tomorrow, so I will let you know

Oh no. If only someone had warned you... :Smile-_tongue:

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9 hours ago, Miragetank90 said:

 

They can come and try to kill you all you want, if you are paying even a modicum of attention to your position no one will be able to do it.

 

Thus focusing on the platform instead of the planes is moot. 

 

Did anyone inform you there are map edges stopping you from running away any further ? You have a failed tactic there, just as your stubborn failed Guru pal....

 

But if 2 CV decide to focus on you or your failed Guru pal there, you can sink all you want...and there are more flaws in your reasoning....

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Did anyone inform you there are map edges stopping you from running away any further ? You have a failed tactic there, just as your stubborn failed Guru pal....

 

But if 2 CV decide to focus on you or your failed Guru pal there, you can sink all you want...

 

 

ezgif-2-e3091c538e0f2222222222222222.gif

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45 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Did anyone inform you there are map edges stopping you from running away any further ? You have a failed tactic there, just as your stubborn failed Guru pal....

 

But if 2 CV decide to focus on you or your failed Guru pal there, you can sink all you want...and there are more flaws in your reasoning....

 

 

 

14322403_189054351515732_3381806889327061001_n.jpg.49120cca780218742fbc4ad11edcdc56.jpg

 

Who said anything about map edges?

 

Must be nice living in a dream world where you're the best and everyone else and their advice sucks, especially when everything you ever say about CVs shows you lack basic understanding of the class and game as a whole. Instead of trying to understand what other people are saying, maybe learn something(beneath you I guess?), you just double down on your drivel. It's quite amusing :Smile_trollface:

 

Or maybe its sad... 

 

 

 

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Came here for some advice about carrier captains skill.

 

Found the usual noise :(

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Oh looky another CV thread.... shouldn't this be in the pinned, dustbin thread for CV's?

Hey ADMINS why are you not consistent?

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On 4/12/2019 at 2:40 PM, El2aZeR said:

General guide? Not that I know of.

 

I currently use this on the Enterprise.

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PASA518&modules=111111&upgrades=122410&commander=PCW001&skills=2282366984&consumables=11&lang=en

I may however move away from DB health to TB health instead considering the latter are a much more flexible weapon.

Although griefing cruisers who are supposed to counter you with AP DBs is pretty funny. :Smile_trollface:

 

May also drop CE. Enterprise has some options as to how you set her up unlike her USN peers.

Nice set up there, I had a punt on a couple of Drop box's, and got the Big E, also the Kaga, so that is it WG you have had enough of my musty wallet, but many thanks anyways:cap_like:

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How are you guys setting up your captains for the Kaga?

 

There's an obvious dilemma that it's an HE bombing CV as opposed to all the tech tree ships. I've thus far developed my IJN CV captains towards what I suspect is the "standard" stealth build:  Air Supremacy (1), Improved Engines (2), Survivability Expert (3), Aircraft Armor (3), Sight Stabilization (4), Improved Engine Boost (1), Concealment Expert (4), Last Gasp (1). On USN/RN 19-pointers I've replaced CE and LG with Torp Acceleration and Demo Expert.

 

So what to do. Initial impression is that the ship  relies SO heavily on the torp planes (despite the HE bombs) that the concealment build might still be optimal. But not sure.

 

I guess I could develop a captain using DE on the Hosho which doesn't need more concealment anyway.

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6 minutes ago, jss78 said:

How are you guys setting up your captains for the Kaga?

 

There's an obvious dilemma that it's an HE bombing CV as opposed to all the tech tree ships. I've thus far developed my IJN CV captains towards what I suspect is the "standard" stealth build:  Air Supremacy (1), Improved Engines (2), Survivability Expert (3), Aircraft Armor (3), Sight Stabilization (4), Improved Engine Boost (1), Concealment Expert (4), Last Gasp (1). On USN/RN 19-pointers I've replaced CE and LG with Torp Acceleration and Demo Expert.

 

So what to do. Initial impression is that the ship  relies SO heavily on the torp planes (despite the HE bombs) that the concealment build might still be optimal. But not sure.

 

I guess I could develop a captain using DE on the Hosho which doesn't need more concealment anyway.

Demo gives +5% fire chance for bombs, Kaga bombs have 50% IIRC. 30% or 33% against tier 8, 25/27.5% against tier 10, you be the judge.

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7 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Demo gives +5% fire chance for bombs, Kaga bombs have 50% IIRC. 30% or 33% against tier 8, 25/27.5% against tier 10, you be the judge.

Yeah, the more I look at the Kaga, the more it doesn't look worth it.

 

That 5% is not a bad number if you anticipate lots of hits. Same logic as with surface ships -- the more HE hits you expect, the stronger reason to take DE. But Kaga only drops 4 bombs at a time (6 for Lexington, 16 for Implacable). And actually the story is the same with the rocket planes, with only 8 rockets per attack (24 for Lexington, 20 for Implacable).

 

There's also the question of anticipated playstyle. Kaga feels like the torp plane is your #1 choice. And you have many of them, so in many games you might be able to keep spamming the TB's for the bulk of the time.

 

So yeah, I guess the standard concealment build might do.

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11 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Yeah, the more I look at the Kaga, the more it doesn't look worth it.

 

That 5% is not a bad number if you anticipate lots of hits. Same logic as with surface ships -- the more HE hits you expect, the stronger reason to take DE. But Kaga only drops 4 bombs at a time (6 for Lexington, 16 for Implacable). And actually the story is the same with the rocket planes, with only 8 rockets per attack (24 for Lexington, 20 for Implacable).

 

There's also the question of anticipated playstyle. Kaga feels like the torp plane is your #1 choice. And you have many of them, so in many games you might be able to keep spamming the TB's for the bulk of the time.

 

So yeah, I guess the standard concealment build might do.

 

All rocket aircraft can start fires too.....especially usefull when you whack larger ship superstructures with them. Some rocket fighters are not even suitable to shoot at DD such as the 3 x TiT ones....too poor accuracy even with fully closed reticule.

 

And if you use secondaries to fight other CV ( happens a lot lately as they are often the only survivors and there are many CV in matches  ) in late match it further strenghtens the HE secondaries too. Even if you did nothing else to increase their range, rof and so on.....

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59 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

And if you use secondaries to fight other CV ( happens a lot lately as they are often the only survivors and there are many CV in matches  ) in late match it further strenghtens the HE secondaries too. Even if you did nothing else to increase their range, rof and so on.....

 

For what it's worth, I did some testing with the Kaga secondaries going against 12 Yamatos in a training room, and putting in some BB captains.

 

To me investing on the secondaries is just not worth it when their range peaks at 6.8 km. Not in a tier where BB secondaries surpass 11 km. The fire volume is quite impressive and the fire chance decent though. I'm not above running the occasional joke build, and if the Kaga secondaries reached to 10'ish km I'd totally set up a  captain with AFT for some late-night derping. 

(Got a video of the secondary test, running everything but Manual Secondaries (BFT, AFT, module, signal). Quality is kinda poor because I've recently relocated and stuck playing on a Lenovo Thinkpad.)

 

Spoiler

 

 

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I'm still mulling over some builds, and trying to figure what (if any) niches the premium carriers occupy vs the tech tree.

I'm trying to make sense of the in-game numbers, and here's what I'm coming up with:
Enterprise's focus is the bombers because AP is a unique selling point for the USN carriers.
Saipan's focus is the Torpedo bombers, because the 2 torps-per-payload gives you four fish per drop instead of 3 with the Enterprise or Lexington.
Lexington's focus is Rockets, because the HVAR has more potential damage, and the Tiny Tims are comparable to Saipains, but with bigger flights and thus HP pool.

Kaga's long-range stealth torps due to the IJN long range and squadron concealment values, and the larger flight size again means more fish in the water than the Shokaku and a larger squad pool.
Shokaku confuses me, but seems to be an all-rounder?  Rockets seem "ok, but not best in tier" on paper?

 

Graf Zepplin looks like its secondaries are comparable to Tirpitz / Bismarck - I'm guessing it has the same secondary pen values as those two rather than the improved pen some of the German BBs get on the secondaries?  If so, is it worth putting resources into AA/secondaries and using the hull to help support team-mates?  Or is it just going to eat cits and pens and instantly melt as soon as it's spotted if you put it anywhere near your team's gunships?
Aside from that, it has 6km torp range, so I could see some worth in trying to out-range the worst of the incoming AA, but the low damage per torp seems to make that "meh"?

That's what I'm looking at on paper (but the info was incomplete, not unlocked the tech-tree ships, so can't see stuff like fire-chance in-game), but am I barking up the wrong tree here?

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As long as 4 CV matches exists there is a considerable chance the match ends in a CV vs CV situation. That situation is even becoming notoriously common and irritates many players that hate CV already. CV's are often moving no-fly-zones so anyone can estimate how usefull  the leftover rabble of aircraft you still have after a battle that sunk all your teams will be...

 

CV that are alone in the match with other CV often try to grab a potential match deciding cap. That leads to CV-CV battles where aircraft are nigh useless, but these battles decide win or lose so are a WR influencing factor ( important for the WR diciples )

 

So the players that redicule considering enhancing the secondaries are teethless in such situations and will lose because of it. Worse for them still, many secondary battery enhancing captain point synergyze with enhancing AA. That means you are stronger then them in AA ( killing their aircraft ) and in secondary batteries.

 

I'd like very much to be their enemy in above situations, as that will be an auto-win !

 

Premiums like the Graf Zeppelin and to lesser extend Kaga dimish the need for enhancing secondaries, as they are stock very powerful and capable of sinking other CV. Yet, these are not the only T8 CV in the game. Especially the  much loved Enterprise has very weak secondaries, the Saipan has none !

 

I agree with criticasters that when there will not be 4 CV in matches the chance these get to decide the match outcome fighting CV to CV will be insignifcant and not worth any points. But up to this day i fight CV to CV multiple times every day. I do not always get the kill....but i do contribute in defeating them a great deal. And do consider you are protecting anyone close to you attacking that CV or CV's  from air attack as well.

 

Someone beat me to it today, but on my own i would have sunk it too....as you can see this happens well in range of any enhanced range secondary CV gun ( ~ 6,5 km ) No one denies GZ has the range advantage, but that does not mean you have to lose in all situations.

 

 

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Here is one for the meme wall :Smile_trollface:

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36 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

shot-19_04.19_22_15_15-0623.thumb.jpg.78e1c9adddad2c16ec2c2f4068f0178b.jpg

Here is one for the meme wall :Smile_trollface:

 

Well a deleted DD is a deleted DD....can't fire ninja torpedo's at anyone anymore.:Smile-_tongue:

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On 4/19/2019 at 1:05 PM, Ace42X said:

Kaga's long-range stealth torps due to the IJN long range and squadron concealment values, and the larger flight size again means more fish in the water than the Shokaku and a larger squad pool.

 

Farazelleth just put out a kaga video, he seemed to be building it in a different direction - not making massive use of the stealth, and going for shorter-range faster torps.  I can certainly see point-blank dropping with fast torps helps reliability of hits and thus damage (and with low per-torp alpha, that's valuable); does that, and use of DBs, outweight the benefits of trying to drop at extreme ranges?

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On 4/14/2019 at 1:11 PM, jss78 said:

 

For what it's worth, I did some testing with the Kaga secondaries going against 12 Yamatos in a training room, and putting in some BB captains.

 

To me investing on the secondaries is just not worth it when their range peaks at 6.8 km. Not in a tier where BB secondaries surpass 11 km. The fire volume is quite impressive and the fire chance decent though. I'm not above running the occasional joke build, and if the Kaga secondaries reached to 10'ish km I'd totally set up a  captain with AFT for some late-night derping. 

(Got a video of the secondary test, running everything but Manual Secondaries (BFT, AFT, module, signal). Quality is kinda poor because I've recently relocated and stuck playing on a Lenovo Thinkpad.)

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Why didn't you test it against CV's ?? 

 

CV secondaries should be used  to be able to fight other CV for caps when every other class is dead, and these caps still matter for the win. Or to kill them if their team is still ahead in points and your aircraft reserves don't allow to sink it as some CV can be compared to AA cruisers...with use of fighter consumables.

 

Or kill attacking DD.....when torpedo salvo's miss they always die to secondary fire. Some CV have 3,5 second firing ones at 127 mm caliber.....

 

And when the CV is suited for it, because good luck with the Saipan with that......

 

The whole idea of fighting CV ( or DD ) with other CV seems outlandish and therefore outragious to some, but i have done this many times. Enough times for it to matter to me, i would also not use completely useless builds.

 

 

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Also, still struggling to figure out what the GZ's strengths are – none of the planes look stand-out and thus candidates for improved health:  I'm leaning to Aircraft Mod 2 on the Torpedo bombers not because they seem great, but just to maximise the potential benefit of the self-heal.


@El2aZeR - are there any circumstances where you would recommend Torp / Attack aircraft Mod 1 in the 3-slot instead of AA?

I could only imagine the improved torp attack duration being useful on some of the Brit CVs where you can manoeuvre without disrupting dispersion, combined with general Brit tankiness.

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9 minutes ago, Ace42X said:

Also, still struggling to figure out what the GZ's strengths are – none of the planes look stand-out and thus candidates for improved health:  I'm leaning to Aircraft Mod 2 on the Torpedo bombers not because they seem great, but just to maximise the potential benefit of the self-heal.


@El2aZeR - are there any circumstances where you would recommend Torp / Attack aircraft Mod 1 in the 3-slot instead of AA?

I could only imagine the improved torp attack duration being useful on some of the Brit CVs where you can manoeuvre without disrupting dispersion, combined with general Brit tankiness.

GZ looks to be based around it having good secondary guns (The German ship thing). But for the life of me, I can't think why anyone would buy a CV for the secondary guns... :cap_yes:

 

Yet, I see it's the second most expensive CV. It cost more than Kaga and Saipan

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5 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

GZ looks to be based around it having good secondary guns (The German ship thing). But for the life of me, I can't think why anyone would buy a CV for the secondary guns... :cap_yes:

Speed on the planes, so you can get in-get out in an instant. TB would be particularly good at it, even if their damage leaves something to be desired. That and AP DB as anti cruiser toy and almost TiTs grade rockets.

 

Bonus points for memes, as you can put Secondary upgrades on 3rd slot, as AA is surprisingly mediocre on GZ - 6 flaks on long/mid range, compared to 5 on Shokek (which makes up for with meaty short range) and 6/14 on Lady Lex.

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18 minutes ago, Ace42X said:

are there any circumstances where you would recommend Torp / Attack aircraft Mod 1 in the 3-slot instead of AA?

 

Not really for Torp Mod 1. I don't think there are any circumstances in which that'd be useful as you always want to drop as close as possible nowadays.

Attack Mod 1 however can be useful if you're still learning the timing for rocket attacks against low concealment targets. I also consider it mandatory for RN CVs due to the abysmal speed of their RFs.

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