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Nightmare4U

The state of tier 7 DDs

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I was just watching a video about the upcoming tier 8 PREMIUM DD Yukikaze. It's still WIP but as of now It has a 5.4km detection range. Cossack tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.5km,  Asashio tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.4km, I don't know what's going on but would somebody please tell me how am I supposed to compete with all those PREMIUM DDsin any tier 7 DD? I mean Im outspotted by at least 0.4km in even the stealthiest Shiratsuyu as she has a 5.8km detection range. If you find yourself detected by a cossack at that range you night as well go back to the dock. These sort of detection ranges making torpedo reload booster not a viable option anymore as you simply won't survive to use them unless you shoot all your torps at a 9-10km distance to your target.Akatsuki is outspotted by 1.0km!!!! That is just ridiculous! Jervis outspotted by 0.9km, Maas by 1.4km!!!, Blyskawica by 1.4km, Mahan by 1.3km. With the CV rework DDs are in constant danger at caps and Tier 7 DDs in particular are outgunned and outspotted by tier 8 DDs especially the mentioned premium ones, which makes them extremely hard to play and almost irrelevant in tier 8-tier 9 matches.

What do you guys thing? I wonder if WG's gonna do anything about that? They certainly should...

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That is nothing new.

The Kagero clones always had an advantage in spotting.

 

When getting uptiered, be extra careful.

While smaller differences in concealment would make life for Tier VII DD easier, there are still viable.

My Blyska has sunk her share of Kageros.

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Tier 7 DD's have unfortunately always been the underdogs in this game due to relatively poor base concealment values and the Concealment module becoming available at tier 8. In my opinion the only way to fix this would be to remove the Concealment module  from the game entirely (yeah, this is not gonna happen). So I'm guessing we will be permanently stuck with a bad situation here. No wonder tier 6-7 DD's tend to be less played when compared to the others. They simply get outclassed by a mile and do not have even the concealment for a saving grace to even the odds. This, I feel is a mistake. A smaller and less powerful ship should have SOMETHING going for them to make it viable, if we are going to keep the +-2 MM and still hope to provide an enjoyable gameplay experience to all involved. Right now tier 7's tend to be the odd ones out quite often.:Smile_amazed:

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It has always been like that, simply because T8 gets access to Concealment Module. Its not only for Premium DDs which can outspot you. Also, if you are a T7 in a T8/9 game, enemies have a T7 DD aswell. I know it sucks, i was Mahan vs Fletcher which i vividly remember, nothing you can do really. Our T9 DD just yoloed in ofc. I managed to survive, but in the end we lost anyway.

 

Thats why i always disagree with all the T8 vs T10 whining. T8 vs T10 is not that bad. T7 DD/BB vs T8+ is extremely bad (Cruisers are in a toughspot anyways), and T6 vs T8 is the most horrible one imo.

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Simple. I’m asashios case you are faster normally and can gun them down. They have deep water torps that can’t hurt other DD’s.

 

Yukiaze whilst also having excellent concealment also only has 8km torps. Start a gun fight while kitting away, that’s how you knife fight other DD’s anyway.

 

T7 DD’s have some of the best DD’s in game. Jervis, Mass and Gajah are no joke and can toe to toe with the best of them. DD’s are high skill. I can’t say I struggle in any DD tier but that’s what playing 1000’s of games in them does and understand how all them work. Learning their strengths and weakness. 

 

Positioning is also key. Starting a knife fight with support close or doing it on your own away from allied ships will determine the fight more than what ship you are in and they are in. There are many factors that affect a DD vs DD fight. What tier the ships are is very rarely the deciding factor.

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9 minutes ago, Nightmare4U said:

I was just watching a video about the upcoming tier 8 PREMIUM DD Yukikaze. It's still WIP but as of now It has a 5.4km detection range. Cossack tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.5km,  Asashio tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.4km, I don't know what's going on but would somebody please tell me how am I supposed to compete with all those PREMIUM DDsin any tier 7 DD? I mean Im outspotted by at least 0.4km in even the stealthiest Shiratsuyu as she has a 5.8km detection range. If you find yourself detected by a cossack at that range you night as well go back to the dock. These sort of detection ranges making torpedo reload booster not a viable option anymore as you simply won't survive to use them unless you shoot all your torps at a 9-10km distance to your target.Akatsuki is outspotted by 1.0km!!!! That is just ridiculous! Jervis outspotted by 0.9km, Maas by 1.4km!!!, Blyskawica by 1.4km, Mahan by 1.3km. With the CV rework DDs are in constant danger at caps and Tier 7 DDs in particular are outgunned and outspotted by tier 8 DDs especially the mentioned premium ones, which makes them extremely hard to play and almost irrelevant in tier 8-tier 9 matches.

What do you guys thing? I wonder if WG's gonna do anything about that? They certainly should...

 

Tier 7 is where you learn that you have to be really careful about your opponents. Look at the team composition before the game starts, carefully approach the start of the game until you know who is where. If that one ship you don't want to encounter is unspotted, assume it's near you in the worst possible place. See where you can be effective without leaving your teammates in the dark. You can still spot enemy BB, cruisers, do torp runs etc.

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Vor 16 Minuten, Nightmare4U sagte:

I was just watching a video about the upcoming tier 8 PREMIUM DD Yukikaze. It's still WIP but as of now It has a 5.4km detection range. Cossack tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.5km,  Asashio tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.4km, I don't know what's going on but would somebody please tell me how am I supposed to compete with all those PREMIUM DDsin any tier 7 DD? I mean Im outspotted by at least 0.4km in even the stealthiest Shiratsuyu as she has a 5.8km detection range. If you find yourself detected by a cossack at that range you night as well go back to the dock. These sort of detection ranges making torpedo reload booster not a viable option anymore as you simply won't survive to use them unless you shoot all your torps at a 9-10km distance to your target.Akatsuki is outspotted by 1.0km!!!! That is just ridiculous! Jervis outspotted by 0.9km, Maas by 1.4km!!!, Blyskawica by 1.4km, Mahan by 1.3km. With the CV rework DDs are in constant danger at caps and Tier 7 DDs in particular are outgunned and outspotted by tier 8 DDs especially the mentioned premium ones, which makes them extremely hard to play and almost irrelevant in tier 8-tier 9 matches.

What do you guys thing? I wonder if WG's gonna do anything about that? They certainly should...

To kite an enemy DD within a 0,4 km range to keep him open without being spotted yourself is pretty tough to handle and with all the other factors around (planespotting of cv and Radar) that gap in spotting range could almost be neglected.

The only thing where it really matters is a gunfight and the first shot.

Given that both captains could aim equally well, the first shot isn't a factor eihter, because tier 8 in comparable lines has already the gun edge over tier 7.

 

Only choice is to play calm, make fast conclusions whether it's better to shoot back or turn away and don't confront them directly one on one unless you aren't sure you can outgun them due to higher hitrate or you got better cover by backing up ships in your team. But those considerations aren't against premium DDs of tier 8 only, they are mandatory for DD gameplay.

 

Good luck and have fun :etc_hide_turtle:

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You simple have to Deal with it. It is not only a T7 Problem. A Z23 or Ognevoi gets outspottet also from Kageros  etc by far. But it is possible to play around. Even in Sims which has terrible CE it is possible mostly. If possible support a better concealed DD untill you knows where the DDs are.   

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34 minutes ago, Nightmare4U said:

I was just watching a video about the upcoming tier 8 PREMIUM DD Yukikaze. It's still WIP but as of now It has a 5.4km detection range. Cossack tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.5km,  Asashio tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.4km,

Kagero 5.4km, Lightning 5.5km, Benson 5.8km. At least get your facts straight before whining about "overpowered premiums" please... :fish_palm:

 

Other than that, yeah welcome to the world of T8 Concealment Modules... been that way for practically ever, not gonna change anytime soon I would guess...

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29 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Kagero 5.4km, Lightning 5.5km, Benson 5.8km. At least get your facts straight before whining about "overpowered premiums" please... :fish_palm:

Shh, don't spoil his narrative:Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, PotatoTorpedo said:

T8 better than T7. Mind blowing.

Thanks man. I'm always glad to find helpful members of the community. extemely cunstructiive too. You're intelligence shining through your response man. Much obliged.

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12 minutes ago, Nightmare4U said:

Thanks man. I'm always glad to find helpful members of the community. extemely cunstructiive too. You're intelligence shining through your response man. Much obliged.

And your intelligence shines through in your spelling. Bravo.

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As Tyrendian said: This is a case of "Equipment slot 5" vs "No equipment slot 5", not premium vs. non-premium. I'd argue that the Lightning is just as scary as the Cossack (albeit requiring a slightly different approach to DD-vs-DD engagements), and Kagero is far more scary than Asashio thanks to it actually having torpedoes that can damage DDs.

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1 hour ago, Tyrendian89 said:

Kagero 5.4km, Lightning 5.5km, Benson 5.8km. At least get your facts straight before whining about "overpowered premiums" please... :fish_palm:

 

Other than that, yeah welcome to the world of T8 Concealment Modules... been that way for practically ever, not gonna change anytime soon I would guess...

I admit I haven't checked the tier 8 Tech tree DDs untill your comment but let's face it, out of all the tier 7 and 8 tech tree DDs only 2 has competitive concealment. Kagero and Lightning. 5.8km of Benson is OK at best. I know there are different aspect to DD play and competitiveness but I'm not really here to talk about tier 8 DDs. I believve tier 7 DDs have a concealment problem wether ppl want to admit or not. they are easily outspotted by tier 8 DDs by a HUGE margin and in many cases by tier 6 DDs too. In case of tier 6 DDs it isn't that big of a problem as you normaly got more HP and more/better guns on your tier 7 to stay competitive against a tier 6 even if you're outspotted but that's not the case with tier 8s  

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3 minutes ago, PotatoTorpedo said:

And your intelligence shines through in your spelling. Bravo.

It's not my spelling, although I misspelled a few words. My keyboard is extremely sensitive unfortunately. If that's your best comeback to me that's extremely weak pal. Did I misspelled something again? Sorry if I did.

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1 minute ago, Nightmare4U said:

Did I misspelled something again? Sorry if I did.

:Smile_hiding:

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2 minutes ago, Nightmare4U said:

 My keyboard is extremely sensitive unfortunately. 

Maybe it also impairs your DD play.

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9 minutes ago, Nightmare4U said:

I admit I haven't checked the tier 8 Tech tree DDs untill your comment but let's face it, out of all the tier 7 and 8 tech tree DDs only 2 has competitive concealment. Kagero and Lightning. 5.8km of Benson is OK at best. I know there are different aspect to DD play and competitiveness but I'm not really here to talk about tier 8 DDs. I believve tier 7 DDs have a concealment problem wether ppl want to admit or not. they are easily outspotted by tier 8 DDs by a HUGE margin and in many cases by tier 6 DDs too. In case of tier 6 DDs it isn't that big of a problem as you normaly got more HP and more/better guns on your tier 7 to stay competitive against a tier 6 even if you're outspotted but that's not the case with tier 8s  

Yhea we know.

Most / all experienced DD drivers know that T7 is at a bit of a hard point because at T8 you get the module and concealment is so extremely important to DD's.

 

It's not a new problem.

It's not the end of the world.

Look at the team lists carefully, and play accordingly.

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Appreciate all the constructive answers guys, thank you. I do understand DD gameplay and the effect and importance of the concealment module I got a pretty decent 1740PR with destroyers. I can manage tier 7 too. That on the other hand doesn't make it right to have that big of a concealment disadvantage compared to higher tiers. I really think WG needs to have a look at them. Gunboats are bit less effected as they don't rely on concealment that much anyway but the rest of them are in trouble.

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The easiest way to deal with this is to use RPF on your destroyers, together with CE. That way you know what to expect and makes you able to act accordingly. I am not saying it is easy, but it is a useful skill to learn. Are you using: Last Known Ship Position and Ship Names on your mini map as well?


My opinion about the current captain skills / upgrades is that they need a rework anyway, not just to bridge the gap between T7 and T8. The majority of the player base is using pretty much the same skills / upgrades, where imo it should offer more variety in gameplay for your ships while still being useful.

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3 hours ago, PotatoTorpedo said:

T8 better than T7. Mind blowing.

T8 still better than T10 (concealment wise). Mind blowing.

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3 hours ago, Nightmare4U said:

I was just watching a video about the upcoming tier 8 PREMIUM DD Yukikaze. It's still WIP but as of now It has a 5.4km detection range. Cossack tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.5km,  Asashio tier 8 PREMIUM DD 5.4km, I don't know what's going on but would somebody please tell me how am I supposed to compete with all those PREMIUM DDsin any tier 7 DD?

Le Terrible tier VIII premium? 6.8km...

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58 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

The easiest way to deal with this is to use RPF on your destroyers, together with CE. 

How many people have 14+ pt captains on their T7 DDs, though? 

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