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natswright

Matchmaking for new players

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So far i'm doing ok in the game, but i'm not a skilled player yet. my PvP kill death ratio is about 0.75 if I remember correctly, I have a low hit accuracy too, 21%. With all these stats, you'd think you'd be matched with similarly skilled players, but often I find that i'm in a game with ships 2 tiers better and players with very accurate aim, like they are really good at predicting were i'll be!

 

I have of course had games where the match making was better. One game last night that I streamed, had most of the enemy team chase my poor little T-61 (on low HP) all over, lobbing shells as I evaded most hits, even landing a few to boot! I thought i'd just keep evading as the rest of my team realized and whittled the enemy down to size as they all chased me. Eventually I took a fatal hit!

 

Would I be right is guessing that sometimes i'll be matched against much better players as one of the players in my division is a good player themselves? I guess in that case, matchmaking can be a bit tricky.

 

 

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Keep playing at the tiers 2-4 for a little while longer. Those tiers only have a +/-1 matchmaker. They are your "protected mode".

 

As soon as you leave those low tiers you leave the safe coastal area and swim into the ocean with the big fishes.

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1 hour ago, natswright said:

Would I be right is guessing that sometimes i'll be matched against much better players as one of the players in my division is a good player themselves?

The first bit is right i.e. you will sometimes be matched against much better players (equally, you'll also sometimes get matched against utter potatoes e.g. me).

 

The second bit not so much - MM is (allegedly) entirely random; it isn't skill-based, at least not in randoms (a quick search of the forums will probably show up a bunch of threads explaining at great length why SBMM is a bad idea and won't happen).

 

As @Egoleter says, to avoid the worst privations, play a maximum of T4 ships - up to T4 only faces one tier higher at worst.

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@natswright - you can sometimes infer a little bit about relative threats on the opposing side by analysing the team makeup whilst the battle is loading (hitting tab will bring up the team makeups in battle as well), as well as when an enemy is in sight.

 

Look for names/clans you recognise as being dangerous (and say hello if you notice a forumite!); also look for limited availability ships, as they can sometimes tell you a bit about your opponent e.g. Kamikaze are quite common, thanks to the loot boxes; Kami R, and Fujin (sp?) on the other hand haven't been available for a long time, so anyone in one of those is likely to be pretty experienced/competent. Look for camo that can only be got through being magnificent in Clans - that denotes a good player. And so on...

 

That's not to say that you can always spot a good/bad player from the off, but it's still worth looking out for clues (just not at the expense of concentrating on what you should be doing!)...

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Also i feel like tis worth adding that good aim is the smallest difference in the game between a bad and a good player. You get better aim by just playing and getting used to it, it will make you a little bit better, but it really is the smallest variable.

 

The most important factors of a good player is:

1. Positioning, being able to read the map, analyse whats happening, being able to predict what is going to happen and using that information, make sure that you are in the right position at the right time. This is the most difficult thing to learn, and will take thousands of battles.

 

2. Knowledge of game mechanics, learning all the rules, formulas and mechanics behind the game, without knowing this, you cant know the optimal way to act in any given situation

 

3. Ship knowledge, knowing(atleast roughly) the stats, strengths and weaknesses of every ship in the game. Without knowing this, its impossible to predict anything, and you wont know how to take on any particular engagement.

 

Just outlined this to sorta show that the very good players that you keep getting thrown in with arent beting you with their aim, they are beating you with their knowledge and experience. If all the new players got bunched up together, they would have no one to learn from, and would probably never improve. Sure its annoying when you are a new player to die by pros, but it does give the opportunity to try to learn from what they did.

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As already mentioned already staying at or below tier 4 will mean only seeing ships max 1 tier higher than yourself, I'd also look at playing all 3 main ship classes equally to get an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of each.  I notice you mentioned in another thread that you don't have much experience with cruisers, if you want to improve your aim cruisers are probably the best class due to their high rpm compared to BB's.

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Thanks guys, been playing the Russian cruisers, and love them, great at setting things on fire and reasonable survival. Had a very frustrating T4 game just now, was a small team of six a side, I went to cap A, called for help, and the rest of my team went to the other end of the map and stayed there! The enemy only lost one ship, but I guess you get games like that...

I had one game a week or so ago when my isokasi did 109000 damage!, but struggle to reach that. I'll keep on with the cruisers though, having more fun with them...

I wish there was a map overlay with all the best hiding places!

 

Anyway, the rapid fire cruisers really help with my aim!

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Oh and one other thing, Co-Op battles, are they good to practice in? The bots can be quite challenging sometimes...

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4 hours ago, natswright said:

Oh and one other thing, Co-Op battles, are they good to practice in? The bots can be quite challenging sometimes...

Co-op battles are good to get used to a new ship. Learn to better make use of the specific firing arcs and maneuverability. Also sometimes to farm mission goals.

Other then that you'll sooner or later recognize the bots default behavior and learn to abuse it. Once you get there they stop being a challenge.

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Vor 18 Stunden, Egoleter sagte:

As soon as you leave those low tiers you leave the safe coastal area and swim into the ocean with the big fishes.

 

Except that the low tiers are of course also riddled with deep see predators, even though they have to stick to low tier ships.

 

They fondly call it "sealclubbing."

 

Try an app called "Matchmaking monitor" and be amazed.

 

Apparently. any kind of skill- or experience-related matchmaking is a really yuge can of worms and completely impossible to implement.

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50 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Try an app called "Matchmaking monitor" and be amazed.

Lets not spread this any further then you absolutly have to.

 

@natswright
Everyone is allowed to play every tier. Yes, there are some highly skilled players lurking in those lower tiers too. Those who do it regularly are called sealclubbers, as they prey on the new and lesser skilled players. They are just as likely to appear on your team as they can appear on the opposite side. So it's not really a thing to worry about as their influence will balance itself out. Witnessing how those players, after you died in a battle, can also be a good source to learn more about good positioning, situational awareness, and proper choice of priority targets. So they are only a bad thing to you if you allow them to.

 

MM-Monitor shows you the average rating of the players you play with and against in a match by some obscure math of a third party website. It can lead to you becoming obsessed with the stats of others instead of the game at hand. Some players who use it will even complain right at the match start how unfair the battle is with all the strong players on the other team. Others sometimes refuse to play or seek ways to get out of the battle fast (mindlessly rushing into the enemy for example) if the battle isn't to their liking. Spoiling the battle for the rest of their team and helping to actually prove the data right as a self-fullfilling prophecy. If you are prown to that you will spoil the game for if you use this tool.

 

If used properly the MM-Monitor can tell you what players to look out for. Who to make your priority target or who to observe to maybe learn something. Don't use it to look for sealclubbers, if you want to use it.

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3 hours ago, Egoleter said:

Lets not spread this any further then you absolutly have to.

 

@natswright
Everyone is allowed to play every tier. Yes, there are some highly skilled players lurking in those lower tiers too. Those who do it regularly are called sealclubbers, as they prey on the new and lesser skilled players. They are just as likely to appear on your team as they can appear on the opposite side. So it's not really a thing to worry about as their influence will balance itself out. Witnessing how those players, after you died in a battle, can also be a good source to learn more about good positioning, situational awareness, and proper choice of priority targets. So they are only a bad thing to you if you allow them to.

 

MM-Monitor shows you the average rating of the players you play with and against in a match by some obscure math of a third party website. It can lead to you becoming obsessed with the stats of others instead of the game at hand. Some players who use it will even complain right at the match start how unfair the battle is with all the strong players on the other team. Others sometimes refuse to play or seek ways to get out of the battle fast (mindlessly rushing into the enemy for example) if the battle isn't to their liking. Spoiling the battle for the rest of their team and helping to actually prove the data right as a self-fullfilling prophecy. If you are prown to that you will spoil the game for if you use this tool.

 

If used properly the MM-Monitor can tell you what players to look out for. Who to make your priority target or who to observe to maybe learn something. Don't use it to look for sealclubbers, if you want to use it.

Oh, thanks, will check out MM-Monitor, sounds interesting!!

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1 hour ago, natswright said:

Oh, thanks, will check out MM-Monitor, sounds interesting!!

Have a care though: as @Egoleter alludes to, it can result in some unhealthy behaviours. The (sort of) equivalent in WOT is something known as xvm, and that is a superating carbuncle on the bottom of the last leper in hell...

 

(I'm not keen)

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Vor 7 Stunden, Egoleter sagte:

Lets not spread this any further then you absolutly have to.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?
 

Zitat

MM-Monitor shows you the average rating of the players you play with and against in a match by some obscure math of a third party website.

 

Nope. There is nothing obscure about what MM-Monitor shows you. It shows statistics, mainly the number of battles the players played, their win rate in per cent, their average damage, and I think also their average XP. All of it for their current ships in the current battle mode (which can be a bit misleading in Clan and Ranked battles btw ;-) Or it shows none of the above if it's fewer than ten battles, or if a player has set the game client to hide the stats.

 

I agree that people shouldn't attach too much importance to those numbers. A difference of a few per cent in the combined average win rate does not allow a prediction of the outcome of the game, and my gutfelt recollection about battles with a yuge such difference - in the high tiers - is also that they go either way to a surprisingly similar degree of probability.

 

It is nevertheless interesting, and it came as a rude shock to me when I first learned about it, and I would have liked to know have known this a lot earlier when I was a beginner. And if you go into a Tier IV battle, it can sure be nice to know if there's a guy on the other side with 800 games in his Derzki. Or four of those.

 

I think you are confusing the "obscure algorithm" notion with things like wowsnumbers' "Personal Rating". Even that is not obscure though, I'd rather call it a bit arbitrary. But they do document how it is calculated. They themselves claim it is similar to World of Tanks' WN8, which seems to be focusing on damage much too heavily. Which is why the PR is not something that I concern myself with.

 

https://wows-numbers.com/personal/rating

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10 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Have a care though: as @Egoleter alludes to, it can result in some unhealthy behaviours. The (sort of) equivalent in WOT is something known as xvm, and that is a superating carbuncle on the bottom of the last leper in hell...

 

(I'm not keen)

Yeah, I dont think its something i'd use long term, just while i'm learning. I can then watch the match replays or follow it after my distruction to see how the better players go about their game play!

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58 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

What exactly is that supposed to mean?
 

 

Nope. There is nothing obscure about what MM-Monitor shows you. It shows statistics, mainly the number of battles the players played, their win rate in per cent, their average damage, and I think also their average XP. All of it for their current ships in the current battle mode (which can be a bit misleading in Clan and Ranked battles btw ;-) Or it shows none of the above if it's fewer than ten battles, or if a player has set the game client to hide the stats.

 

I agree that people shouldn't attach too much importance to those numbers. A difference of a few per cent in the combined average win rate does not allow a prediction of the outcome of the game, and my gutfelt recollection about battles with a yuge such difference - in the high tiers - is also that they go either way to a surprisingly similar degree of probability.

 

It is nevertheless interesting, and it came as a rude shock to me when I first learned about it, and I would have liked to know this a lot earlier when I was a beginner. And if you go into a Tier IV battle, it can sure be nice to know if there's a guy on the other side with 800 games in his Derzki. Or four of those.

 

I think you are confusing the "obscure algorithm" notion with things like wowsnumbers' "Personal Rating". Even that is not obscure though, I'd rather call it a bit arbitrary. But they do document how it is calculated. They themselves claim it is similar to World of Tanks' WN8, which seems to be focusing on damage much too heavily. Which is why the PR is not something that I concern myself with.

 

https://wows-numbers.com/personal/rating

Yeah, as a guide MM-Monitor will be a good tool to see how players do their gameplay. I had a game last night where I went to cap on one point, and the rest of my team sat on one point and took pot shots at the enemy from long range. All this while my poor little destroyer was hunted mercilessly by the enemy with all the ships on me and zero support from my team. What I wanted to know was whether I did the right thing, going off to cap, fire the odd torp when the chance arose and so on. I called on my team for help, but they just sat on one cap point while the enemy capped the other 2. I need to work on my evasion skills I guess!?

 

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1 hour ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

What exactly is that supposed to mean?
 

 

Nope. There is nothing obscure about what MM-Monitor shows you. It shows statistics, mainly the number of battles the players played, their win rate in per cent, their average damage, and I think also their average XP. All of it for their current ships in the current battle mode (which can be a bit misleading in Clan and Ranked battles btw ;-) Or it shows none of the above if it's fewer than ten battles, or if a player has set the game client to hide the stats.

 

I agree that people shouldn't attach too much importance to those numbers. A difference of a few per cent in the combined average win rate does not allow a prediction of the outcome of the game, and my gutfelt recollection about battles with a yuge such difference - in the high tiers - is also that they go either way to a surprisingly similar degree of probability.

 

It is nevertheless interesting, and it came as a rude shock to me when I first learned about it, and I would have liked to know this a lot earlier when I was a beginner. And if you go into a Tier IV battle, it can sure be nice to know if there's a guy on the other side with 800 games in his Derzki. Or four of those.

 

I think you are confusing the "obscure algorithm" notion with things like wowsnumbers' "Personal Rating". Even that is not obscure though, I'd rather call it a bit arbitrary. But they do document how it is calculated. They themselves claim it is similar to World of Tanks' WN8, which seems to be focusing on damage much too heavily. Which is why the PR is not something that I concern myself with.

 

https://wows-numbers.com/personal/rating

On a sidenote, is it possible to get something like matchmaking monitor to display all time stats rather than per ship? Cause i use it for recruiting people to my clan, and ive found that the per-ship stats are very misleading because they usually have a much too small sample size.

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Vor 59 Minuten, thiextar sagte:

On a sidenote, is it possible to get something like matchmaking monitor to display all time stats rather than per ship?

I have not found such a setting. But you can just click the player name and it takes you straight to their WoWs-numbers,com page which has the overall stats.

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Thanks guys, had lots more success playing tier IV tonight, with my Russian cruiser! Damage was up, getting 30 to 40k in some game, one I almost got a kraken unleashed!! I even took out an Orion battleship in one game with a torp salvo after setting it on fire, and promptly got called a seal clubber!! lol, I only have a 6 point captain! Going to spend time with all the lower tiers checking out the best ships to play with!

 

I've more than doubled my PR rating to 1000, and my win rating with the Svietlana is 64% !!

 

Again guys, your insight has been invaluable! Thank you so much!

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