Großer Kurfürst is worthless

[Cadelanne]

At least, it is my opinion. I always hear people telling me that it's a good ship, I've been trying really, really hard but I still don't see many things going for her. She has hydro, which is really nice, and she's very tanky, which in itself is good, but loses a lot of value since I can't pose myself as a significant threat to anything.

 

1 - It has bad main guns

 

This is something most people I'm talking with agree on. Even if there are 12 of them and they reload fast, they're just too innacurate. I don't feel unlucky when I got a crap dispersion and can't hit anything, I feel lucky when I have a correct volley. So even when you get yourself in close range, in a situation where guns with fast reload usually shine, it's not that impressive. Besides that, turret angle is atrocious, and you have to give a huge amount of broadside to bring all guns to bear. This makes having 12 guns sort of irelevant in many situations.

 

2 - The turtleback isn't that much of an advantage anymore

 

What I mean is that nowadays, every TX BB is hard to citadel, except Yamato. When the ship was released you could brawl side to side with an other TX BB and win the trade hands down because you'd have scored 3+ citadels while receiving only normal penetrations. That isn't true anymore.

 

3 - The secondaries aren't good at anything

 

When I tell people I have troubles with this ship, they always come back saying "use the secondaries, they're devastating". They are not. I can admit that everything else is probably related to me not being good at the ship, but people needs to stop saying that secondaries on this ship are good. They don't deal damages. I often have games with 150+ secondary hits, which acounts in the end for less than 30k damages, including fires.

 

This makes the GK absolutly incapable of dealing with angled battleships, which is really an issue for a ship notoriously made for pushing and brawling.

 

So I don't know what I am missing, I don't know how people who are having good games in GK manage to do it, but the more it goes the least intresting this ship is becoming to me.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

1. Guns are good enough
2. It is a huge advantage. Know your enemy.
3. They are still good, but not advisable on high Tier maps. Distances are too large.

Maybe you play the ship too agressive?

[Cadelanne]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

1. Guns are good enough
2. It is a huge advantage. Know your enemy.
3. They are still good, but not advisable on high Tier maps. Distances are too large.

Maybe you play the ship too agressive?

 

I suppose that I do, however what else can I do ? Past 12km it's almost like I had no guns at all.

[Silluminati]

While i am still at Freddy, the guns are the same and the experience is the same garbage you are describing. Most other high tier BBs do the same damage to you when you are angled or even more than you do to their broadside at 10km. Seeing that the same thing awaits after this grind i have given up on it. Definatly needs a accuracy buff, especially since most high tier battles play out at ranges that your guns wont work. Usually when you are in the range that your guns work, you are overextended and going to die.

+ the hydro is more for helping you not take all the torps, since it wont turn anyway to dodge them all.

Every time i play it i feel that the 380-s are way better for some reason..

[Aragathor]

Every other existing and future T10 ship does what the GK can better:

-Fast shooting guns? Every other BB has only 0.5s less reload with MBM3, if using the useless 420s you actually shoot slower.

-Armor? Others can easily angle and use their armor better than you. With the coming of the Kreml the GK will be a joke, as the Russian BBs are built around pushing and tanking.

-Secondaries? Take an IFHE Repu and have more fun.

-Even the complete package is not good enough.

 

You will find a lot of haters who would love to see German ships made crap, but truth to be told all 3 T10 German ships are just at the bottom when it comes to offering a useful role in battle.

[SirAmra]

34 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Every other existing and future T10 ship does what the GK can better:

-Fast shooting guns? Every other BB has only 0.5s less reload with MBM3, if using the useless 420s you actually shoot slower.

-Armor? Others can easily angle and use their armor better than you. With the coming of the Kreml the GK will be a joke, as the Russian BBs are built around pushing and tanking.

-Secondaries? Take an IFHE Repu and have more fun.

-Even the complete package is not good enough.

 

You will find a lot of haters who would love to see German ships made crap, but truth to be told all 3 T10 German ships are just at the bottom when it comes to offering a useful role in battle.

420s aren't useless

[almitov]

21 hours ago, Aragathor said:

-Fast shooting guns? Every other BB has only 0.5s less reload with MBM3, if using the useless 420s you actually shoot slower.

406mm guns are fast shooting. 420mm have more alpha and penetration at range but both setups are viable. MBM3 is also good here as well, until you get the legendary upgrade.

 

21 hours ago, Aragathor said:

-Armor? Others can easily angle and use their armor better than you. With the coming of the Kreml the GK will be a joke, as the Russian BBs are built around pushing and tanking.

Armor is really good. The gun firing angles are the worst of all BBs in this tier, hence many people show too much broadside and then complain in the forums. Just multitask - shoot front guns at one enemy, the rear ones at another and keep good angle to both. Kreml will definitely be a great tank too though.

 

21 hours ago, Aragathor said:

-Secondaries? Take an IFHE Repu and have more fun.

GK's secondaries are a lot harder to take out. With all the survivability boosts, Repu will still lose almost half of its secondaries in a single Conqueror salvo. Also being in secondary range with Repu will get you killed a lot quicker than GK. German HE has better penetration, so CAs, CLs and DDs will suffer a lot more from GKs secondaries. And if you still want IFHE, you can pen the BB bow armor with your secondary armament. 

 

21 hours ago, Aragathor said:

-Even the complete package is not good enough.

Maybe you have the wrong expectations or gamplay style. The ship is definitely not as strong compared to other ships as it was before, but it is still very tough nut to crack. Lately my only problem is with the CV rework - now you will be perma-spotted for the whole game and getting into secondary range is a lot harder when the enemy sees you and runs away.

 

When it comes to taking the aggro and moving on I am somewhat divided between GK and Monty. With GK I tend to do more damage in bad situations, while with Monty I tend to survive longer.

[Cadelanne]

Had an other exemple today of why this ship is the worst useless sh*t ship in the whole friggin TX.

 

I helped pushing a cap with hydro, getting rid of a DD, then I derped a bit but the important part is when a République pushed and I wanted to brawl him. He shat on me while I was bow on, I shot at his broadside, waterline, with little effect, he pushed my side while showing a perfect flank for 2 volleys without suffering much, and punish the "omg so good OP brawler tankier battleship turtleback" with a 35k volley.

 

Seriously, I double dare you to download and watch this replay and tell me that this ship is something else than a big floating junkyard. Bow on you lose, broadside you lose, at range you lose, you don't punish cruisers.

20190410_141520_PGSB110-Grossdeutschland_45_Zigzag.wowsreplay

[pra3y]

Very bad play. You pushed too aggressive at the start into the cap, even though there was 4 enemy ships in front of you , making yourself an easy target to focus on since most of your allied ships were behind you and/or behind islands. The same thing happened when you pushed out from behind the rock. After your friendly kagero died of course you'll become target number one. The stupid mistake you did was sitting there, letting yourself get shot in almost all directions. You should have learnt from that Republic that you wanted to brawl with and keep in moving. Lol. You literally sat broadside to another BB at about 5km and you think he can't do any damage to you? He shat on you cause you made yourself a sitting duck while he drove past you. You should have kept on moving and go through the gap at G2. You were lucky none of the enemy ships at F7 were shooting at you.

 

 

Bow on my [edited]he was by you broadside when he fired that salvo. You can even see those 4 AP shells incoming.

 

Sweet RNGesus. Don't do stupid stuff and blame it on the ship. All in all, it was an extremely bad play on your part.

[Cadelanne]

2 hours ago, pra3y said:

Very bad play. You pushed too aggressive at the start into the cap, even though there was 4 enemy ships in front of you , making yourself an easy target to focus on since most of your allied ships were behind you and/or behind islands. The same thing happened when you pushed out from behind the rock. After your friendly kagero died of course you'll become target number one. The stupid mistake you did was sitting there, letting yourself get shot in almost all directions. You should have learnt from that Republic that you wanted to brawl with and keep in moving. Lol. You literally sat broadside to another BB at about 5km and you think he can't do any damage to you? He shat on you cause you made yourself a sitting duck while he drove past you. You should have kept on moving and go through the gap at G2. You were lucky none of the enemy ships at F7 were shooting at you.

 

 

Bow on my [edited]he was by you broadside when he fired that salvo. You can even see those 4 AP shells incoming.

 

Sweet RNGesus. Don't do stupid stuff and blame it on the ship. All in all, it was an extremely bad play on your part.

 

The first push worked as my hydro allowed us to kill their DD with me not taking too much damages. I did it because I knew they didn't have any HE machine gun on this side of the map and because I had hydro so I could avoid a torp salvo. Anyway that push worked quite well. It secures a cap and a kill so I don't know why I am to blame on this one. The second push when I don't stay behind the rock is not a good idea, I agree on that.

 

Then you didn't read me because when I say I was bow on, I'm talking about the first salvo that hit me for 12k and I'm litteraly bow on.  Can't be more bow on than that. Hell, I had a chat with him after the game and even him said he was shocked by the massive damage he's dealing to bow on BBs with this ship. Then the picture on your screenshot is when he hit me for 30k - 35k. I shot three salvos with front guns at his flat broadside for no more than 20k in total. That means that in a situation in which my ship is supposed to shine, against an ennemy that goes for 100% YOLO plays, it's still getting shat on.

 

So again, tell me more about the GK being good at close quarter action when it gets punished that heavily while being totally unable to deal any heavy damage at a broadside BB 5km away.

[Marducas91]

French bbs have the tendency to eat pens with no dmg due to the armor layout but just by looking at the picture (did not see the vid) u must have shot at his angled armor belt and that results in bounces or shatters 

Repu guns are big and if he shot your superstructure He could deal a lot of dmg even more so if he had good dispersion  

And tbh my kurry performs better than my yama 

Not a bb Main player but that tells even more about the efficency of the ship and i'm not even using the 420s with "better" pen and dmg 

 

[kingzy2013]

Had gk nearly 24 hours, my averages are up and down as I'm still getting used to when yo push when to wait etc. Had plenty of good games including a 7kill 234k damage game. The ship's good. Little bit to flammable. But generally it's fine. Accuracy just a bit trolly. Some times the stars align for a triple citidel but generally it's a bit wonky. Shots going into the water, over the ship with only a few hitting home. 

 

today iv played the GK alot and atleast 1-5 games ill dev strike a unsuspecting cruiser at 16-20km.  sure monty could have done the same thing. but that just proves the accuracy can be good. its unreliable as each salvo varies. but you do get a good tight salvo every few shots. 

[Chips_uk]

The guns are good, but within reason. At first I overpenned everything, but... got better over time.

 

It certainly can tank dmg - my record is 5.5m; bearing in mind that was from a Yamato, GK and Montana in a 3vs1 (and I sank the Montana). I do struggle when things are angled, but that's just that cruisers can accurately hit your superstructure and set fires non stop while you'll struggle to hit them at all (despite having 6 guns pointing the right way!). 

 

The big weakness is fighting solo when there's dd's around. It is so slow at low speeds that you're screwed. Must admit, i don't have a secondary build at the moment, and not got a second captain up to the point of being able to have one :D

 

It should be pointed out, I've not played tons of top tier games. Also, the FdG was a painful grind, the GK is entirely different.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Could I have the OP's opinion on the FDG, as i have got this, almost fully pimped out, only had the one game in her so far but liked her a lot, I am heading for the Tier 10 myself but weirdly I only do this so that mt ships earn fxp, the only real ship i do sometime venture into battle with is the Audacious, as to me she is not much more effective then any T8 CV.

[Solo_Wing_Potato]

GK could perhaps use a slight buff but for the most part it's fine.  Can't watch the replay but a hit from the Repu up in your superstructure could quite easily result in a 12k hit, broadside on a GK will eat a lot of damage albeit regular pens.  Having said that a broadside Yamato or Montana for that matter would most likely have lost a hell of a lot more than just 35k, at that range with a flat broadside upwards of 60k is not out of the ordinary.  

The guns can troll a lot with regards dispersion but they tend to be fine from 12km or under.  The problem you have is deciding when it is safe to push.  Early game when there is a CV on the enemy team, a DD in the cap, a Hindy and Moskva just waiting for someone to farm and a Yama and Repu lurking is not what I would call a good time to push.  But hey each to their own.

[demonwarrior_2019]

I only just got my Kurfurst so i'm still getting use to it's slow turning but i find it fun but i still struggle with earning the credits to keep it as i know it takes around 170k each battle if you only got the 10% off flag. but i love it and i'm glad it's my first TX BB.

[Nadrick]

On 4/8/2019 at 4:01 PM, Cadelanne said:

At least, it is my opinion. I always hear people telling me that it's a good ship, I've been trying really, really hard but I still don't see many things going for her. She has hydro, which is really nice, and she's very tanky, which in itself is good, but loses a lot of value since I can't pose myself as a significant threat to anything.

 

1 - It has bad main guns

 

This is something most people I'm talking with agree on. Even if there are 12 of them and they reload fast, they're just too innacurate. I don't feel unlucky when I got a crap dispersion and can't hit anything, I feel lucky when I have a correct volley. So even when you get yourself in close range, in a situation where guns with fast reload usually shine, it's not that impressive. Besides that, turret angle is atrocious, and you have to give a huge amount of broadside to bring all guns to bear. This makes having 12 guns sort of irelevant in many situations.

 

2 - The turtleback isn't that much of an advantage anymore

 

What I mean is that nowadays, every TX BB is hard to citadel, except Yamato. When the ship was released you could brawl side to side with an other TX BB and win the trade hands down because you'd have scored 3+ citadels while receiving only normal penetrations. That isn't true anymore.

 

3 - The secondaries aren't good at anything

 

When I tell people I have troubles with this ship, they always come back saying "use the secondaries, they're devastating". They are not. I can admit that everything else is probably related to me not being good at the ship, but people needs to stop saying that secondaries on this ship are good. They don't deal damages. I often have games with 150+ secondary hits, which acounts in the end for less than 30k damages, including fires.

 

This makes the GK absolutly incapable of dealing with angled battleships, which is really an issue for a ship notoriously made for pushing and brawling.

 

So I don't know what I am missing, I don't know how people who are having good games in GK manage to do it, but the more it goes the least intresting this ship is becoming to me.

 

 

I definiately had the same issues once i got my GKF. 

However, I found that the right captain traits can help you out alot! (Specially the 3rd issue you mention, the secondaries) 

GKF is hard to play, and definiately takes alot of time - But if you have the right game at the right moment, shes one unstoppable beast. Get close- but not too close. If you traits are set properly aimed for exactly your playstyle, its a deadly weapon! And dont forget the upgrades either, they make a big difference for the ship - Although they are quite pricey..

 

She definiately is not made for mid/long-range with her inaccurate guns, sadly. But she can do decently on close/"short-mid". 

 

There is quite a few good guides here on the forums, one of them could be:  

There is also other guides on the forums for how to play BB's in general - and also other specific ships, which could help you to choose what ships would be your "best" oppononent in the GKF  

This ship can be a massive frustration at times, but I hope you will enjoy her at some point. 

[Vogelhund]

Mostly all BBs are screwed in this IFHE meta with Edited ships smolensk / Colbert .

 

Edited: Language

[ColonelPete]

16 hours ago, Vogelhund said:

Mostly all BBs are screwed in this IFHE meta with Edited ships smolensk / Colbert .

And they are still doing fine...

[MrCrazyUkrainian]

I think you just haven't got used to it. I prefer playiing on DDs personally and when trying to play on a BB i achieve fairly bad results as well. Some people just prefer quicker gameplay.

[Nit0]

I would say German battleships are the most difficult to play, since it requires brawling to make them shine, and brawling is not easy to master.

Also, tier 10 is the most unforgiving tier in the game, where one mistake can cost you your life, it doesn't make the science of brawling any easier, that's for sure. GK is a very good brawler, but to get her into a brawling situation that is in your favour is a challenge in it self. I find GK one of the most fun, but can also be the most frustrating ship to play at tier 10.

[MRGTB]

Got the GK last week, I thought it was a bad ship to play at T10. It gets focused on way too much because people know German BB's burn easy. It's a large ship with terrible concealment and stock short firing range. Ended up selling it. But also have the French T10 BB and it's way better a ship to play due to it having 26k shooting range stock.

[MRGTB]

On 12/23/2019 at 6:52 PM, Nit0 said:

GK is a very good brawler, but to get her into a brawling situation that is in your favour is a challenge in it self. I find GK one of the most fun, but can also be the most frustrating ship to play at tier 10

The problem is that there's a lot of HE spamming going on in the game and GK suffers badly because of it. Burns easy and has to get close in to use the guns. With all the cruiser premium T9 ships around now- more HE spamming going on, it doesn't stand a chance of lasting long because it gets forced on first once spotted by just about every HE spammer in range of you.

[ColonelPete]

10 minutes ago, GTB1964 said:

Got the GK last week, I thought it was a bad ship to play at T10. It gets focused on way too much because people know German BB's burn easy. It's a large ship with terrible concealment and stock short firing range. Ended up selling it. But also have the French T10 BB and it's way better a ship to play due to it having 26k shooting range stock.

 

11 minutes ago, GTB1964 said:

The problem is that there's a lot of HE spamming going on in the game and GK suffers badly because of it. Burns easy and has to get close in to use the guns. With all the cruiser premium T9 ships around now- more HE spamming going on, it doesn't stand a chance of lasting long because it gets forced on first once spotted by just about every HE spammer in range of you.

 

• the burn chance is equal for all ships of the same tier
• GK cannot research firing range, and if you need more than 20km, you are doing it wrong...

[Rhineheart_Thor]

I am going to be honest here, I think its the best T10 BB