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The_Norwood

Why is the Gneisenau now terrible at AA?

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Why has the Gneisenau turned from an AA beast into something that can barely shoot down a total of 6 planes when it's focused by a t6 carrier?

AA is generally broken amongst all ships now, but this particular instance struck me as the worst of the bunch.

I have a personal best of 65 planes shot down pre patch of doom, now my best is the aforementioned 6. What gives? How can you justify such an insane change?

The cv patch gets worse every time i look at the effects.

 

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Her great strength previously were her 128 mm DP guns. Her mid and short range AA have always been bad. Now because auras don't overlap anymore and long-range AA DPS is lousy, Gneisenau can's shoot down planes reliably except when they fly into a flakburst. This means a skilled CV player who dodges the flak has not much to fear from her.

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3 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

Her great strength previously were her 128 DD mm guns. Her mid and short range AA have always been bad. Now because auras don't overlap anymore and long-range AA DPS is lousy, Gneisenau can's shoot down planes reliably except when they fly into a flakburst. This means a skilled CV player who dodges the flak has not much to fear from her.

 This ^^ :cap_tea:

 

Took sometime to figure out which ones are good now and which are bad. Total change for some ships. 

 

Either-way, your getting hit by a CV.

 

 

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Beta Tester
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Enjoy playing a Ship tht is now inline with the other german BB`s regarding their AA.

the Gk can actually have pretty fearsome long and midrange AA if you take the module and sacrifice either the secundaries or the main gun percision (both are not mandatory so you do not lose more than you gain by pisking either. You just get another viable choice)

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Did you have Manual AA before? As that used to double the damage of all AA guns over a certain size, against the selected target, you could get quite a marked increase on ships where a lot of their AA was in those mounts. But now it's a more general skill (boosting the effects of AA-sector switching and reducing the time that takes) rather than one that benefits particular ships more than others.

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Mid range guns (or the lack of). My Scharnhorst's mid range AA has 1 flak burst (490 dps, hit prob 69%) and 44 dps continuous. KGV, on the other hand,  has 6 bursts (700 dps, 69%) and 334 continuous. Scharnhorst has better long range AA than KGV but then that's the stuff that's easiest to dodge. Gneis is pretty similar - it means she can damage planes but probably won't knock them down anymore. 

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6 hours ago, Johmie said:

Did you have Manual AA before? As that used to double the damage of all AA guns over a certain size, against the selected target, you could get quite a marked increase on ships where a lot of their AA was in those mounts. But now it's a more general skill (boosting the effects of AA-sector switching and reducing the time that takes) rather than one that benefits particular ships more than others.

The thing is, in the past the secondary build I use on all my German BBs from t7 on used to synergize very well with AA. With AFT and BFT you had half an AA build anyway. Now AFT is pretty much useless and replaced by Manual AA as the best tier 4 AA skill. I very rarely used Manual AA on any ship before the rework (my hilarious full AA build Akizuki was the exception). So, you have to make more compromises: Do you want a full secondary build and be helpless against carriers or sacrifice additional short range damage for AA? I went with the former and still have fun with guns blazing and just hope the CV leaves me alone...

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[JRM]
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Either way if CV uses WASD properly you will get hit, @EgyptOverseer was pretty salty yesterday when i TinyTim-ed him in his CLEVELAND, and even when he ganged up with a Dallas still could sneak in some strikes, although rest of fleet finished them off and not me, anyways it was an AA spec cruiser, but Gneise is quite hard to kill off and still costs some planes especially when T6 cv is in question

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Gneisenau's are the prefered target for my AP divebombers. As almost every attack delivers one or more citadels. No other class of ship guarantees that like Gneisenau or Scharnhorst.

 

I would only refrain from killing them if their AA always shot down my squadron at approach. Which they never did in my experience, but i ofcourse dodge what i can dodge.

 

You have not by any means removed AA modules or AA captain talents ? Many did....making it much easier to get to you as well.

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10 hours ago, Seiranko said:

I mean, it's still better than PEF. But either way, enjoy getting your long range boosted through, then get AP bombed to death.

 

 

Wargaming sale info about PEF. "Fire up AA defenses to be able to successfully counter same-tier aircraft carriers. "

https://eu.wargaming.net/shop/wows/vehicles/12107/

Yeah right :Smile-angry:

 

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22 hours ago, The_Norwood said:

Why has the Gneisenau turned from an AA beast into something that can barely shoot down a total of 6 planes when it's focused by a t6 carrier?

AA is generally broken amongst all ships now, but this particular instance struck me as the worst of the bunch.

I have a personal best of 65 planes shot down pre patch of doom, now my best is the aforementioned 6. What gives? How can you justify such an insane change?

The cv patch gets worse every time i look at the effects.

 

 

6 planes?:Smile_amazed:

 

From doing 40 planes effortless in  any give game when focused by the cv to 18/20 after the first patch. (when cvs were changed)

 

You mean, Gneisenau is even worse now?

 

 

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I haven't been particularly scared in the Gneis against T6 carriers. Yes, they can get through and will get one run in, but unlikely to be able to do two.

T8 is a different story, but today I came up against a Shokaku and killed 10 of his planes. He did citadel me once and ultimately got me with torps (I got stuck against an island dodging shots from a Jean Bart), but it wasn't insta-kill, that's for sure.

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45 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

You mean, Gneisenau is even worse now?

 

Probably has more to do with CV population having drastically decreased, meaning there are less potatoes around who yearn to collect all the flak puffs.

 

I love seeing Gneisenaus in my Enterprise. Hitting them for half their HP in a single DB attack never gets old. :Smile_trollface:

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The patch (even with hotfixes applied) acted as some sort of "great equalizer" when it comes to AA strenght. The ships that previously had murderous AA now often only fare "okayish" while some ships that before patch barely ever shot down a plane became pretty decent at it.

 

AA-range was nerfed and made more uniform across the board and (almost) everyone got some passable close- or midrange aura. Longrange was de-facto gutted hard and only vs the most potato CVs does it feel nearly as strong as before. Even some slight random movements makes you dodge some of the puffs.

 

Examples Yorck vs Atlanta  and  Yamato vs Monatana - before 0.8. the differences in planes shot down were downright massive for me. Theres still difference today but its much harder to notice really.

 

 

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13 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Probably has more to do with CV population having drastically decreased, meaning there are less potatoes around who yearn to collect all the flak puffs.

 

I love seeing Gneisenaus in my Enterprise. Hitting them for half their HP in a single DB attack never gets old. :Smile_trollface:

 

That's a shame for Gneisenau.

Gneisenau is a pretty dam good ship.

This decline of it's capabilities shoudn't happen.

 

The AA rework (puffs, damage over time, etc) shoudn't happen either. I mean They turned AA Ships or good AA ships into ordinary ones and vice virsa in some cases.  I could argue that could be a sign of bad design.

 

But if that is what happened with the rework (cv population taking a dive in numbers) guess it's a kind of balancing for Gneisenau , but not for cvs

 

I'm not at speed what's going on

 

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Is Gneisi's AA any better after the 0.8.7 changes? I still have her in my port, but after the 0.8.0 thing.. I just have no heart to take the old girl out.

On 4/1/2019 at 1:00 AM, El2aZeR said:

I love seeing Gneisenaus in my Enterprise. Hitting them for half their HP in a single DB attack never gets old. :Smile_trollface:

I know you are just joking and stuff.. but you made me sad :Smile_sad:

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It's crap because it is impossible to balance CV. So we are doomed to swing from AA.works one patch to AA does [edited]all the next.

All because WG won't admit the obvious that putting 4 things into a rock,paper scissors (3) type of game was never going to work, and they dont have to bottle to move cv to their own game mode.

Image the crap show we are going to be forced to endure when the idiot idea that is subs will be rushed into live cos you can bet that even when they are told in testing they not fit in the game they will ram them in anyway cos of all the time they put into them.

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On 3/30/2019 at 10:47 PM, The_Norwood said:

Why has the Gneisenau turned from an AA beast into something that can barely shoot down a total of 6 planes when it's focused by a t6 carrier?

AA is generally broken amongst all ships now, but this particular instance struck me as the worst of the bunch.

I have a personal best of 65 planes shot down pre patch of doom, now my best is the aforementioned 6. What gives? How can you justify such an insane change?

The cv patch gets worse every time i look at the effects.

 

Because it’s s German BB 😏.

 

Mine has an AA rating of 81 in theory T6 planes shouldn’t get close but they do, my Bismarck which should have superior AA is 77, and again T6’s have no trouble dropping tall boys on to it, Being citadelled by a Yam does less damage.

 

My Hood has unique AA and was good pre CV rework, that too is s Joke, can’t see WG addressing it with Subs on the horizon and another 6 months of updates to get that remotely usable.

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6 hours ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

Is Gneisi's AA any better after the 0.8.7 changes?

8.7 made AA... Let's just say it put a monkey-wrench into several rather uncomfortable places for the AA-gunners.
And then depending on the ship sawed an arm off as well. Possibly 2 on DM ect.

So no. 8.7 didn't make any AA any better.

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10 hours ago, rnat said:

8.7 made AA... Let's just say it put a monkey-wrench into several rather uncomfortable places for the AA-gunners.
And then depending on the ship sawed an arm off as well. Possibly 2 on DM ect.

So no. 8.7 didn't make any AA any better.

Pity.
I was thinking tho, what about changing the range of the AA bubble? Will it make her dangerous to CVs if Gneisi AA was 8km(16km in total)?

What about giving 8-10km(16-20 :cap_haloween:) AA to the pre 0.8.0 plane killer AA ships? And leave the rest with the 5.2(10.4)..

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0.8.7 was just WG lurching between AA that is/was "Too OP" to "Too Bad" - over next few patches it will swing around again until 8+ months later we "might" have a decent AA system - a whole 1.5 years after the CV rework started - YAY WG!!!!!

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The Gneisenau  is better than Scharnhorst AA wise, but only just, unlike Shiny which has been detonated by T6 DB's carrying Tall boys twice, GNE hasn't, and while some think it's  waist I run the anti Detonation flag, as both times shiny blew up it still had 3/4 of it's HP, since fitting the flag I obviously haven't had one Detonation. 

 

AA, all too frequent detonations, T6 DB's getting thru Bismarck's AA, and then dropping bombs that do more damage than getting citadelled by another BB, should indicate how broken AA and the rework still is.

 

Think the Gne's bad, the Hood had awesome AA, pre cv rework, with it's unique anti air rocket system, now it's worse than Gne's, and for an organisation that harps on about Historic content; Gne and Shiny did not have torps, Hood did, and yet in game the German's have them Hood doesn't. 

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15 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

My Hood has unique AA and was good pre CV rework

Somehow mine still is. But you have to "wait for it" before you switch the DEF AA.

If you do it in correct range, Hood will just kill the whole lot of them. Dakkadakkadakka... there goes 12-15 planes.

 

Best troll division so far: Hood, Sims, T6 CV... :Smile_trollface:   :Smile_trollface:   :Smile_trollface:   

 

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