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Colonel_Boom

German secondaries suggestions

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Suggestions:

1. Give all german secondaries(at least the higher tier ones) improved HE penetration

2. Make secondary builds cheaper. Make AFT a T3 skill for example.

3. Reverse the secondary targeting change to aim at the deck-line instead of the waterline. There are no AP secs anymore...

4. Get rid of the damn aimbot problems. It is just stupid when its impossible to hit ships that move faster than 30 knots unless your dispersion is so bad that stray shells have to hit the ship to do damage. Less damage when more accurate seems kinda counterintuitive.

 

Reasons:

1. The only german secondaries that get improved HE penetration are the 150mm, 128mm and the 105mm guns of the FDG. The 105mm guns on the rest of the ships have 17mm penetration. That means that they shatter on everything but cruiser and DD superstructures. With the exception of -T6 and UK light cruiser bows/sterns. BBs are literelly immune to damage since they have even 19mm armor on their superstructure. The secondaries on other nations use at least 127mm calibres with the exception of the 100mm secs on the french BBs.

2. The builds are too expansive. AFT is not worth the price if you also need to take manuell secs and maybe even IFHE as well. You sacrifice survivability and utility for a currently very mediocre build.

3. Nearly 50% of your shells hitting cold water is not good.

4. Should be obvious.

 

MfG Boom

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I would also like to see cheaper secondary builds or atleast quality of life improvements that you suggest here so secondary builds actually become more of a valid option instead of a just for fun build.

 

And as for the 100 mm on the Frenchies, they can't pen crap but the RoF, number of guns and fire chance makes them far superior to the german 105 in terms of fire starting and occasional damage.

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Good points all around. Right now secondary builds are viable on many BBs, save the Germans which pay a too high price for them. The  French are hilarious with their secondary builds if you double down on IFHE and Massachusetts is just broken compared to Tirpitz. But secondary build need love either way, as the current meta really makes them subpar and they are too expensive compared to what they deliver.

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[ICI]
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Make German Secondaries Great Again! :Smile_izmena:

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Or maybe they can give us more than 19 points to use.

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9 minutes ago, SirAmra said:

Or maybe they can give us more than 19 points to use.

 

Make those doubloon captains and WG will have yet another sizeable income source  :-)

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12 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Make those doubloon captains and WG will have yet another sizeable income source  :-)

Ssssh. Don't give them ideas. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

But 4 more points would be nice.

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6 hours ago, SirAmra said:

Or maybe they can give us more than 19 points to use.

Give the Jutland brothers improved secondary skills instead of Vigilance and JoAT?

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German 88 and 105 mm guns founded on every battleships get 1/4 pen on they re HE shells, improve secondary dispersion by 20%( what they did with massachusetts),increase HE shell damage by an additional 100 maximum damage( lest say from 1500 to 1600). IF it is necessary they can decrease the reload as well by 5% or even 10% on some of the battleships!

 

Oh and something more.... how about we make them almost HE proof? Lets give bismarck, tirpitz and kurfurst an 80mm deck, same as FDG!

Edited by Animalul2012
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I agree that every German gun should get the 1/4 HE pen, I mean their HE alpha is crap, fire chance is crap but they rely on good pen so they deal semi-consistent damage per salvo.

another suggestion is to use a weaker “Russian dispersion” formula on the main guns, so they are not as troll at close ranges.

5 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

Oh and something more.... how about we make them almost HE proof? Lets give bismarck, tirpitz and kurfurst an 80mm deck, same as FDG!

80mm deck is pretty much overkill, 57mm deck aready stops virtually all HE small calibre shells, so thier current 50mm decks are aready sufficient.

 

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1 hour ago, svadilfari said:

100% yes

sec builds are fun, but not at all competetive

How not competitive? Full secondary build where you do auto-damage and win a lot? There's a reason full sec-builds aren't more effective. Semi secondary builds are viable in Random games. I wouldn't mind the devs looking at secondary mechanic and builds, but straight up buffing secondaries on German bbs probably isn't the best idea.

 

I'm running AFT and Manual secondaries on GK and in Random games it's one of the more fun ships to play and it's decently strong. I wouldn't mind a buff, but I don't think it's advisable.

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Because dealing damage to enemies without any effort on your part is "fun".

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Because dealing damage to enemies without any effort on your part is "fun".

WOWS blitz says mobile gamers>PC gamers.

 

but for reference, the skill is in dealing meaningful damage/trades, no point yoloing in while spotted the entire time and get burned down cause of that, you have to get close to secondary range without losing meaningless HP the way in, and full sec BBs often trade out CE and sometimes survivalblity skills to do so, so they get spotted further, and take more damage from DOT possibly without any way to stealth up properly. 

 

But all guns ablaze on each side of your BB looks, sounds and feels glorious.

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Anyone remember the times the 105mm had bugged fire chances? :Smile_trollface:

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30 minutes ago, howardxu_23 said:

but for reference, the skill is in dealing meaningful damage/trades, no point yoloing in while spotted the entire time and get burned down cause of that, you have to get close to secondary range without losing meaningless HP the way in, and full sec BBs often trade out CE and sometimes survivalblity skills to do so, so they get spotted further, and take more damage from DOT possibly without any way to stealth up properly. 

 

Implying DoT is actually punishing for BBs.

And I don't see what the big deal about concealment is on KM BBs. Been playing without it since day 1 with them just fine. Concealment means nothing when you're practically invulnerable to all types of damage anyway.

There is absolutely no skill involved. Closing the distance to 8-10km is trivial on pretty much any map but Ocean even without CE. It'd be a different story if CVs could instantly punish such a braindead playstyle but thank god the rework largely prevents that nowadays, eh?

 

KM BBs are the most braindead nation of the most braindead class. I see no reason as to why they should be made even more braindead to play.

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16 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Implying DoT is actually punishing for BBs.

And I don't see what the big deal about concealment is on KM BBs. Been playing without it since day 1 with them just fine. Concealment means nothing when you're practically invulnerable to all types of damage anyway.

There is absolutely no skill involved. Closing the distance to 8-10km is trivial on pretty much any map but Ocean even without CE. It'd be a different story if CVs could instantly punish such a braindead playstyle but thank god the rework largely prevents that nowadays, eh?

 

KM BBs are the most braindead nation of the most braindead class. I see no reason as to why they should be made even more braindead to play.

Come on. Some ships are more forgiving than others. You survive (usually) longer in a bb than in a dd if you're bad and have little awareness. Otoh, these ships are usually also tougher to carry in. You're there in a KM bb, you're tough to kill, but you aren't the most influential ship in the game either. There's a place in the game for these ships too. I support potatoes choosing these ships ahead of cvs, dds or radar cruisers. Yea, there's good reason for why cvs aren't able to instantly punish anything at will anymore.

There's a free captain respec coming up... what kind of results could you come up with in full braindead built GK?

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2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Come on. Some ships are more forgiving than others.

 

Which is fine. What is not fine is people saying that these ships aren't braindead enough yet and need to be made so.

 

3 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

There's a free captain respec coming up... what kind of results could you come up with in full braindead built GK?

 

I wouldn't know tbh. I stopped playing GK immediately after 4 games because of how disgustingly easy it was. Aircraft fell out of the sky like nothing, torp DDs presented no threat at all thanks to topkek hydro, gun DDs and cruisers simply had their HE shells shatter all over and BBs couldn't punish me for more than 20k laughable damage even when full broadside, most of which I could heal anyway. And ofc thanks to my gigantic health pool fires were practically irrelevant. I don't even run FP on ANY BB for crying out loud.

Meanwhile topkek dispersion which so many deem as oh so bad practically guaranteed hits no matter how much I misaimed or the enemy maneuvered while I could literally take my hands off of keyboard and mouse as secondaries tore lesser ships apart at mid-close range. This is a line that has no tangible weakness and far too many strengths.

And now people want to tell me that this isn't enough.

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I agree the KM bbs don't any need buffs. I think their 'braindeadness' comes with a drawback in top potential though. They seem to be rather average in stats which would support a narrower skill band.

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34 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I think their 'braindeadness' comes with a drawback in top potential though. They seem to be rather average in stats which would support a narrower skill band.

 

Which many players seem unable to accept for whatever reason. E.g. the amount of accuracy buff demands on reddit for KM BBs that I've seen boggles my mind quite frankly. And even worse, the majority of comments seem to agree.

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

I agree the KM bbs don't any need buffs. I think their 'braindeadness' comes with a drawback in top potential though. They seem to be rather average in stats which would support a narrower skill band.

Exactly. You can’t do massive damage to them but they will struggle to do massive damage to you.

 

 

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I agree that 1/4 calibre HE penetration should be a broader feature of secondaries. Secondary builds are basically non-viable at higher tiers (not sure about lower) with the possible exception of the top German BBs - because they have 1/4 penetration. I doubt even with 1/4 pen you will see secondary builds proliferating much, but you might at least see some on the French BBs and a few others.

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1 hour ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I agree that 1/4 calibre HE penetration should be a broader feature of secondaries. Secondary builds are basically non-viable at higher tiers (not sure about lower) with the possible exception of the top German BBs - because they have 1/4 penetration. I doubt even with 1/4 pen you will see secondary builds proliferating much, but you might at least see some on the French BBs and a few others.

If the french get 1/4 pen they would be far stronger than the germans. 

Bismarck and FDG make around 512,000 DPM while the Alsace and Jeanbart clear 770,000 DPM with higher fire chance, 50% higher.

1/4 pen would allow them to penetrate 32 mm of armour with IFHE and make them beastly against almost any ship.

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