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Excavatus

Dark vs White theme and colors in the forum!

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[THESO]
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Dear forumities,

I am talking on behalf of other mods,

as we discussed in our top sekrIt government discord server,

Excessive color usage became an issue all around the forum, especially in game play.

Although this is not a gameplay issue, we decided to open this thread in this section to prevent,

"You are just trying to bury the subject" accusations.

 

Your voice has been heard! and with this thread it will be heard even more.

Please discuss and report all your concerns and comlaints about this issue under this thread,

You can give examples here without being subjected to moderation so everybody can clearly see the problem from your side.

But please don't abuse this.

 

On the other hand, please stop using rainbow colors or any other excessive texts in other posts,

we moderators are being forced to moderate those posts by you, and sorry but creating chaos and violating forum rules are not a good way to make something change.

 

Please feel free to discuss here, in a civil manner ofcourse and keep other posts clean from eye poking styles.

I am gonna poke @MrConway just for him to keep an eye on this subject, and  @Tuccy

please remember, we all mods are just players and active forumities like you and we suffer from the same issues with you.

Thank you for helping us keeping this facility clean and tidy.

 

Have a great day,

on behalf of all the mods,

Exca "The sacrifice" vatus

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As a starter, I never used the dark theme, thus the problem that @Uglesett described in this post was rather new to me. Hence my point to the Tech Corner. 

 

However, if it's a problem further up the food chain (as suggested: Forum software) we as mods can do very little about it. Apart from poking WG and telling you to stand by.

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The problem started when Wargaming updated their forum software a while ago, allowing us to use colors rather freely. They soon disabled that function but the forum still accepts foreign formatting.

 

This foreign formatting causes issues with the different forum themes when you copy and paste texts from other sources. What we would need is for the forum to automatically convert all copy&pasted content to the default values. The software is able to recognize such formatting, evidenced by the editor suggesting that you could convert all pasted content. All it needs is for the software to be reprogrammed to always consider this suggestion to be confirmed. That shouldn't be to hard to implement.

 

In pseudo code:

if (FormattingDialogShown) {
	FormattingToDefaultConfirm = true;
}

That's all it really needs. Ok... the reality is a bit more complex. But not by much. There is a function that discovers formatted text. There is a function that calls the message onto the editor screen. There is a function to convert the text if the message is confirmed. What might be missing is a boolean value to the message bar when displayed that allows the above pseudo code to work.

 

It shouldn't conflict with moderators having access to the text color feature, which should be linked to a permission setting.

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4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Well it seems like wil's campaign paid off, lets hope wargaming fixes the dark theme soon.

I think his campaign was rather stupid and that there would have been far better ways to make yourself heard then to annoy other forumites to the extend of getting yourself banned.

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Im not sure, where it says in the rules its forbidden to use rainbow colours in your posts? (just checked, didnt see anything in that regard) Its forbidden to use red colour, as its reserved for you mods.

Therefor, banning someone seems kinda questionable, and this is on one of you mods :cap_hmm:

 

Then just all formatting needs to go, since you can deliberately annoy others - regardless if they have normal forum theme (post in white) or dark forum theme (post in black?)

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9 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Well it seems like wil's campaign paid off, lets hope wargaming fixes the dark theme soon.

 

No it didn't,

We are trying to prevent him hurt himself.. and others in that matter :)

 

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Im not sure, where it says in the rules its forbidden to use rainbow colours in your posts? (just checked, didnt see anything in that regard) Its forbidden to use red colour, as its reserved for you mods.

Therefor, banning someone seems kinda questionable, and this is on one of you mods :cap_hmm:

 

 

Sorry but it is there

 

4. Don’t spam!

Avoid:

  • Repeatedly posting the same content
  • Posting the same content in multiple threads
  • Posting irrelevant content
  • Referral links, advertisements, etc.
  • Advertising for product sales of any kind
  • Advertising for services offered by individuals or companies
  • Excessive capitalization, use of fonts, colours or images
  • Begging
  • Bumping posts (unless it is expressly allowed in the sub-section)
  • Abusing the "Reported Post" feature by sending false alarms or nonsensical messages
  • Multi-posting (creating several posts in a row within a short span of time)
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4 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

I think his campaign was rather stupid and that there would have been far better ways to make yourself heard then to annoy other forumites to the extend of getting yourself banned.

Then they should code it so that rainbow text is not possible? Either way it got the mods attention which will probably (hopefully) gets wargamings attention to fix the problem.

 

@Excavatus Clearly it did otherwise you wouldn't be addressing the issue otherwise.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

I think his campaign was rather stupid and that there would have been far better ways to make yourself heard then to annoy other forumites to the extend of getting yourself banned.

Dunno. It's not as if this hasn't been brought up numerous times before and just as quickly forgotten. This is the first time there's actually been anything resembling a reaction that might get some results.

 

To the mods  (edit: and staff, hi @MrConway, @Tuccy), I give you a challenge: For the month of April, all of you use the dark forum theme only.

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Not even a little bit of rainbow? awwww...

 

But yeah, another one of those daft "how did the relevant WG staff even manage to overlook this in the first place, let alone for so long?" issues... it's not that there arent ways around it for us Dark Theme Disciples (highlighting the text, for one...), but it's a pain in the proverbial significant quality of life fail... One of those that make you go "fine, if you don't want me to be able to use your [insert feature here] without getting annoyed then maybe I just won't..."

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1 minute ago, Uglesett said:

Dunno. It's not as if this hasn't been brought up numerous times before and just as quickly forgotten. This is the first time there's actually been anything resembling a reaction that might get some results.

 

To the mods, I give you a challenge: For the month of April, all of you use the dark forum theme only.

All I remember is posts in unrelated threads complaining about the formatting. We never had a dedicated thread for it before. At least not one that got any attention by more then two or three users.

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2 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

All I remember is posts in unrelated threads complaining about the formatting. We never had a dedicated thread for it before. At least not one that got any attention by more then two or three users.

it's been highlighted to both mods and WG staff several times, both in the course of normal forum life and as direct messages. To no avail. I know because I've done it. So yes, it did take Wil's creative form of protest to get anything moving on the topic.

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5 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

We never had a dedicated thread for it before. At least not one that got any attention by more then two or three users.

While the dedicated threads may not have gotten that much attention, it's been acknowledged several times by staff

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1 minute ago, Uglesett said:

While the dedicated threads may not have gotten that much attention, it's been acknowledged several times by staff

A protest that aims at annoying your peers is always the wrong way to achieve something.

 

Even now an acknowledgement is all we have. We do not have any promise for change. And if it has been acknowledged, then why not simply accept that the priority applied to it is not the same as the one you hoped for? Yes, it is easy to fix. It is also easy for us users to find ways to make the text readable still. Maybe that's exactly why it has such a low priority.

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3 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

A protest that aims at annoying your peers is always the wrong way to achieve something.

To be honest, not if it works.

 

And sure it has low priority. I think everyone who uses the darker themes knows that. If this means it finally gets higher priority, that's just excellent.

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[THESO]
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Can we please stop discussing about, how this thread started and focus on why ?

Especially, problems you are experiencing about the forum UI and themes..

 

 

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Yeah if some people post screenies that should give people a better idea (and prove to those who dont believe the issue) of what the issue is.

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10 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

And sure it has low priority. I think everyone who uses the darker themes knows that. If this means it finally gets higher priority, that's just excellent.

While we're at it... what's the point with colouring your post in grey?

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14 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Can we please stop discussing about, how this thread started and focus on why ?

Especially, problems you are experiencing about the forum UI and themes..

Is there any more to say about the subject, though?
The issue is that when you paste text from another source, the forum preserves the text formatting unless the user specifically chooses "paste as plain text". The consequence is normally only noticeable to users who prefer the dark themes, because most web sites and text editors default to dark fonts.

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11 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

While we're at it... what's the point with colouring your post in grey?

Whatever do you mean? It looks perfectly normal to me.

Capture.thumb.PNG.2509077ff6b509c810ad8392aec11a8e.PNG

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Vor 32 Minuten, Excavatus sagte:

Can we please stop discussing about, how this thread started and focus on why ?

Especially, problems you are experiencing about the forum UI and themes.. 

The problem has already been explained, people write text in Word or any other software and then copy-paste it in their forum post. Since the default text color is black for them, the text is copied as "black text", not just as text. (or other colors/fonts/whatever)

And because the forum does not automatically change all text into "normal text" and instead keeps the formatting, this is extremely annoying for everyone using the dark or space forum theme.

 

Vor 40 Minuten, Egoleter sagte:

A protest that aims at annoying your peers is always the wrong way to achieve something.

The problem is annoying us since ages, I think it's only fair if everyone else realizes that this is a problem for us. :fish_aqua:

 

Vor 26 Minuten, CptBarney sagte:

Yeah if some people post screenies that should give people a better idea (and prove to those who dont believe the issue) of what the issue is.

b3f1b50175.png

This is not the worst example, just the first one I found.

Edit: Found a better one:

09fdedce10.png

 

 

And to give you a direct example that you can understand with the light theme.

There is text above here.

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3 minutes ago, AbsoluteCornflakes said:

b3f1b50175.png

This is not the worst example, just the first one I found.

 

And to give you a direct example that you can understand with the light theme.

There is text above here.

 

Bloody hell thats horrible, now i see what you guys mean. Guess you have to highlight the text each time to read...thats mad.

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Just now, Uglesett said:

user specifically chooses "paste as plain text"

 

Which is imho the go to answer the user should choose when pasting text. Sure, not everybody follows that guide line (or simply doesn't know it's there), but from the outside (of the dark theme) it's hard to judge if it has an impact on a user or not. 

 

The only thing we mods can do is clear the formatting of a post once we are made aware (read: report) that a post is unreadable for some (due to theme choices). But that's not a viable route for the long run either imho.

 

4 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

It looks perfectly normal to me.

Fair enough...

 

4 minutes ago, AbsoluteCornflakes said:

This is not the worst example, just the first one I found.

Which was a reason for me to never use the dark theme in the first place.

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45 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Sorry but it is there

 

4. Don’t spam!

Avoid:

  • Repeatedly posting the same content
  • Posting the same content in multiple threads
  • Posting irrelevant content
  • Referral links, advertisements, etc.
  • Advertising for product sales of any kind
  • Advertising for services offered by individuals or companies
  • Excessive capitalization, use of fonts, colours or images
  • Begging
  • Bumping posts (unless it is expressly allowed in the sub-section)
  • Abusing the "Reported Post" feature by sending false alarms or nonsensical messages
  • Multi-posting (creating several posts in a row within a short span of time)

 

Ok, since we are there:

Does the forum rules need some updates? I literally read everything despite the 4. Dont Spam! part, because i wouldnt consider it to be Spam. Spam is useless in itself, but the person in question did write normal messages, which i wouldnt consider spam.

Maybe you can give feedback to make a seperate point about the formatting. Because not writing in red is a seperate point by itself already, so that would fit together.

 

Also an idea about the formatting:

We have to click if we want to remove formatting - maybe it should be the other way around. If you want to keep the format, press the button? Or remove it alltogether...

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