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MrConway

Supertest - Soviet Battleships Changes

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Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

 

Armor changes:

 

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III:

Upper deck armor lowered from 38 mm to 16 mm;

 

Pyotr Velikiy, tier V:

Fore and aft deck armor lowered from 38 mm to 19 mm;

Aft end side armor lowered from 125 mm to 75 mm.

 

Due to their armor thickness, Knyaz Suvorov and Pyotr Velikiy could almost ignore cruisers' HE shells. To deal damage to these ships with HE, the caliber of 230 mm and higher was needed, with the new parameters, lower calibers can penetrate their armor and deal damage.

 

Izmail, tier VI:

Casemate belt armor increased from 25 mm to 100 mm.

 

Izmail's casemate armor belt didn't allow her to fully utilise herself as a close range battleship, and changing the thickness of the armor will allow this ship to act more aggressively and effectively at distances that are comfortable for her.

 

Accuracy changes:

 

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III

Sigma is lowered from 1.7 to 1.5;

Gangut, tier IV:

Sigma is lowered from 1.7 to 1.4

 

Low level battles usually take place at distances of 15 and lower km. In most situations Soviet BBs appear to be more accurate than their classmates. Changing the sigma allows this excessive advantage to be reduced, but it doesn't affect the features of the dispersion ellipse.

 

Maximum firing range changes:

 

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 13.3 to 11.48 km;

 

Gangut, tier IV

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 14.13 to 12.31 km;

 

Pyotr Velikiy, tier V:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 15.15 to 14.55 km;

 

Sinop, tier VII:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 16.15 to 15.79 km;

 

Vladivostok, tier VIII:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 17.24 to 16.34 km;

 

Detectability range changes:

 

Gangut, tier IV:

Detectability range by sea is increased from 10.62 to 13.62 km;

Detectability after firing main guns in smoke is increased from 8.27 to 10.42 km;

Detectability range by air is increased from 7.68 to 8.86 km.

 

Engine changes:

 

Pyotr Velikiy, tier V:

Engine reduced, thus lowering her maximum speed from 29.5 to 26.5 knots;

 

Sinop, tier VII: 

The researchable engine is removed. Maximum speed with stock engine is 27 knots.

 

Turret turning changes:

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III: 

Turning angles for the near side turrets are changed. Now they can turn to face the opposite side;

 

Sinop, tier VII:

Turrets turning speed is lowered from 6 dg/s to 3 dg/s;

 

Vladivostok, tier VIII:

Turrets turning speed is lowered from 6 dg/s to 4 dg/s

 

These changes balance the ships in their overall performance, keeping their distinctive features - good accuracy on lower ranges and general effectivesness in close combat - intact.

 

Other changes:

 

Surveillance Radar consumable is removed from Vladivostok, Sovetsky Soyuz, Kremlin and Lenin. It's effectiveness was very situational and it didn't suite this branch.

"Fighters" consumable parameters are brought to the standard values: action time 60 s, reload time 135 (90) s.

 

 

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Of course I haven't play them but if you watched streamers playing them you al was had a feeling that those shisp were too strong.

I did/do agree with very good armor in the front and very accuracy when close. But at the same time fast turning turrets  was just to much.

 

If strange that there aren't real changes (except the radar) to tier IX and X

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Wow, that is a lot of changes, looking forward to seeing CCs test the ships again.

 

(I mean, clearly a lot of nerfs, but I don't dare saying it is enough or too much. For instance, I believe the low tiers will still be stupidly tanky when angled.)

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@ World of Warships Devs and @MrConway

I think that these changes (on paper) will just make these battleships nothing but frustrating to play. Having no range and with the speed nerfs, they won't be fun at all...

I'd suggest to make them less unique and more average, so that they can have better range, reload, speed and survivability (in terms of not beeing citadelled or torpedoed as hard) for the price of accuracy, health points and fire chance.

Playing other battleships, being set on fire isn't very fun at all, so giving the Russian battleships less fire chance but more of something else would maybe be a better idea.

This was my opinion based on my experience from playing the game.

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[LAFIE]
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Interesting..Still should be good boats, just less broken now @MrConway

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So no deepwater radar !!!!

What is going to be their gimmick now?

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31 minutes ago, Atorpad said:

So no deepwater radar !!!!

What is going to be their gimmick now?

The only one they need, their dispersion getting better in close quarters.

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33 minutes ago, Atorpad said:

So no deepwater radar !!!!

What is going to be their gimmick now?

Loads of unovermatchable (and regular cruiser HE resistant) armor and insanely tigh close range dispersion.

Also stupidly fast turret traverse on T8-T10, which helps at those close ranges.

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1 hour ago, Toivia said:

Loads of unovermatchable (and regular cruiser HE resistant) armor and insanely tigh close range dispersion.

Also stupidly fast turret traverse on T8-T10, which helps at those close ranges.

Haven't you read Mr. Conway's post?

The armour recieved heavy nerfs, and the turret traverse of the VIII has been nerfed, so you may be right about the turret traverse on IX and X, but remember:

These ships are supposed to be brawlers (they need the turret traverse in order to survive)...

 

However I don't think that nerfing the living hell out of the lower tier BB's is going to make the line any fun or balanced...

As said in my reply to Mr. Conway, I have an own opinion about the play style, as what they are implementing (as of now)

only looks to be another very frustrating-to-play-line, in an online game (which is not by any means supposed to be frustrating)

So I think, that many changes (to the better and for the fun for all players) are necessary... 

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44 minutes ago, AragornderHeld said:

Haven't you read Mr. Conway's post?

The armour recieved heavy nerfs, and the turret traverse of the VIII has been nerfed, so you may be right about the turret traverse on IX and X, but remember:

These ships are supposed to be brawlers (they need the turret traverse in order to survive)...

 

However I don't think that nerfing the living hell out of the lower tier BB's is going to make the line any fun or balanced...

As said in my reply to Mr. Conway, I have an own opinion about the play style, as what they are implementing (as of now)

only looks to be another very frustrating-to-play-line, in an online game (which is not by any means supposed to be frustrating)

So I think, that many changes (to the better and for the fun for all players) are necessary... 

I think you haven't read the opening post well enough. The armor nerfs on two of the low tier ships (not including the ridiculous gangut still) only concern the decks, meaning the ships are still silly against cruisers and against AP shooting BBs.

 

When it comes to turret traverse, my bad indeed, one of the T8 BBs gets a nerf as well. So only the Lenin, Sovetsky Soyuz and Kreml (and Slava, I guess) keep the silly 30 traverse.

And here you are a bit wrong, these ships are not brawlers (germans are brawlers). Brawlers basically skirmish at very close ranges passing by and around enemy ships. Soviet BBs never could do that because they have vulnerable raised citadels from the side, similar to the Yamato, kinda... For brawling, you really need very fast turret traverse. Soviet BBs meanwhile are roadblocks, you get into a close defensible position where you use your outstanding armor when angled and shoot anything that shows up. Fast turret traverse is obviously great, but not quite mandatory.

 

Thing with lower tier ships is that none of the balanced ones are really fun, that's why the likes of Giulio Cesare or the old pre-nerfed Konig stand out. All the others are very inconsistent and no matter the range, you cannot guarantee any hits at all. As long as that lasts, I cannot agree with adding a new line that is at a time more accurate at the typical fighting ranges and also pretty much invulnerable. So clearly the nerfs were needed, and I'm not entirely convinced they've been harsh enough.

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11 hours ago, Toivia said:

I think you haven't read the opening post well enough. The armor nerfs on two of the low tier ships (not including the ridiculous gangut still) only concern the decks, meaning the ships are still silly against cruisers and against AP shooting BBs.

 

When it comes to turret traverse, my bad indeed, one of the T8 BBs gets a nerf as well. So only the Lenin, Sovetsky Soyuz and Kreml (and Slava, I guess) keep the silly 30 traverse.

And here you are a bit wrong, these ships are not brawlers (germans are brawlers). Brawlers basically skirmish at very close ranges passing by and around enemy ships. Soviet BBs never could do that because they have vulnerable raised citadels from the side, similar to the Yamato, kinda... For brawling, you really need very fast turret traverse. Soviet BBs meanwhile are roadblocks, you get into a close defensible position where you use your outstanding armor when angled and shoot anything that shows up. Fast turret traverse is obviously great, but not quite mandatory.

 

Thing with lower tier ships is that none of the balanced ones are really fun, that's why the likes of Giulio Cesare or the old pre-nerfed Konig stand out. All the others are very inconsistent and no matter the range, you cannot guarantee any hits at all. As long as that lasts, I cannot agree with adding a new line that is at a time more accurate at the typical fighting ranges and also pretty much invulnerable. So clearly the nerfs were needed, and I'm not entirely convinced they've been harsh enough.

Concerning reading Mr. Conway's post, I indeed was wrong about the armour nerfs, with them only affecting the tier III and the tier V BB's.

Because of their low range, I concluded that they were probably brawlers, but seeing your tactical suggestions, I think that they should be just fine with their turret traverse, providing one can get close enough and not expose their broadside too much.

However, having the Gangut be spotted a kilometer before it can fire, still is a massive nerf. (either increasing it's range to match it's concealment or the other way around should fix it)

There are other ways of nerfing ships and I think that three nerfs at once without the testing of the ship with each single one of these nerfs is a bit hasty.

Concerning the other nerfs to the line, the firing range nerfs got me the most (with the other ones I'm ok).

They already had very low range and now have the lowest range on all tiers (except for tier III (Kawachi) and tier VIII (Monarch, If that still is the case)...

Maybe they should nerf the fire-starting-percentage instead (if that could help).

 

In the end, probably those BB players who only stay at longer ranges and camp on the map's border (and don't know how to use their own ship) will complain and WG will change something...

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True, the Gangut concealment nerf and range nerf does put it in the situation where without Concealment expert, it will only have about 300 meters of range beyond its detection (counting a regular camo and upgraded gun range).

I'll admit perhaps those range nerfs were a bit drastic, I'd much rather see more bow and stern armor nerfs instead.

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From reading these comments I sure hope the incoming Ru BBs will be as historically realistic (warts & all) as possible.

Please, WoWS, not too much 'fantasyland' (although this particular addiction of yours will be difficult to resist). 

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Alle 29/3/2019 alle 14:00, MrConway ha scritto:

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

 

Armor changes:

 

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III:

Upper deck armor lowered from 38 mm to 16 mm;

 

Pyotr Velikiy, tier V:

Fore and aft deck armor lowered from 38 mm to 19 mm;

Aft end side armor lowered from 125 mm to 75 mm.

 

Due to their armor thickness, Knyaz Suvorov and Pyotr Velikiy could almost ignore cruisers' HE shells. To deal damage to these ships with HE, the caliber of 230 mm and higher was needed, with the new parameters, lower calibers can penetrate their armor and deal damage.

 

Izmail, tier VI:

Casemate belt armor increased from 25 mm to 100 mm.

 

Izmail's casemate armor belt didn't allow her to fully utilise herself as a close range battleship, and changing the thickness of the armor will allow this ship to act more aggressively and effectively at distances that are comfortable for her.

 

Accuracy changes:

 

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III

Sigma is lowered from 1.7 to 1.5;

Gangut, tier IV:

Sigma is lowered from 1.7 to 1.4

 

Low level battles usually take place at distances of 15 and lower km. In most situations Soviet BBs appear to be more accurate than their classmates. Changing the sigma allows this excessive advantage to be reduced, but it doesn't affect the features of the dispersion ellipse.

 

Maximum firing range changes:

 

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 13.3 to 11.48 km;

 

Gangut, tier IV

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 14.13 to 12.31 km;

 

Pyotr Velikiy, tier V:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 15.15 to 14.55 km;

 

Sinop, tier VII:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 16.15 to 15.79 km;

 

Vladivostok, tier VIII:

Maximum firing range for main caliber guns with the stock gun fire control system is lowered from 17.24 to 16.34 km;

 

Detectability range changes:

 

Gangut, tier IV:

Detectability range by sea is increased from 10.62 to 13.62 km;

Detectability after firing main guns in smoke is increased from 8.27 to 10.42 km;

Detectability range by air is increased from 7.68 to 8.86 km.

 

Engine changes:

 

Pyotr Velikiy, tier V:

Engine reduced, thus lowering her maximum speed from 29.5 to 26.5 knots;

 

Sinop, tier VII: 

The researchable engine is removed. Maximum speed with stock engine is 27 knots.

 

Turret turning changes:

Knyaz Suvorov, tier III: 

Turning angles for the near side turrets are changed. Now they can turn to face the opposite side;

 

Sinop, tier VII:

Turrets turning speed is lowered from 6 dg/s to 3 dg/s;

 

Vladivostok, tier VIII:

Turrets turning speed is lowered from 6 dg/s to 4 dg/s

 

These changes balance the ships in their overall performance, keeping their distinctive features - good accuracy on lower ranges and general effectivesness in close combat - intact.

 

Other changes:

 

Surveillance Radar consumable is removed from Vladivostok, Sovetsky Soyuz, Kremlin and Lenin. It's effectiveness was very situational and it didn't suite this branch.

"Fighters" consumable parameters are brought to the standard values: action time 60 s, reload time 135 (90) s.

 

 

MrConway, I think this nerf is very heavy, in particular the sigma, the range of fire, and the turrets turning speed, and speed: 26.5... 27  knots? Terrible to play. I don't think they will be fun to play. It's a shame, I've been waiting for them for a long time.

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1 minute ago, Toxoplasmosi said:

MrConway, I think this nerf is very heavy, in particular the sigma, the range of fire, and the turrets turning speed, and speed: 26.5... 27  knots? Terrible to play. I don't think they will be fun to play. It's a shame, I've been waiting for them for a long time.

 

The sigma nerf shouldn’t be a problem at all dude as these ships have almost cruiser dispersion short to mid range. They are still way way too accurate I fear but will save my judgement to when they come out 

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9 minuti fa, 1MajorKoenig ha scritto:

 

The sigma nerf shouldn’t be a problem at all dude as these ships have almost cruiser dispersion short to mid range. They are still way way too accurate I fear but will save my judgement to when they come out  

Ok for the sigma, I bet on you, but  range of fire? Turrets turning speed? And... wich is more ship speed? I will fall asleep waiting for the ship to arrive at the fighting point, this for a short-medium range (browling) fighting ship is terrible.

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36 minutes ago, Toxoplasmosi said:

Ok for the sigma, I bet on you, but  range of fire? Turrets turning speed? And... wich is more ship speed? I will fall asleep waiting for the ship to arrive at the fighting point, this for a short-medium range (browling) fighting ship is terrible.

 

I haven’t played them myself but they look very strong. See the better dispersion is an extreme advantage and they recently got thicker deck armor against HE spam. Not sure about turret traverse but I think we can expect a fairly powerful brawler line 

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4 minuti fa, 1MajorKoenig ha scritto:

 

I haven’t played them myself but they look very strong. See the better dispersion is an extreme advantage and they recently got thicker deck armor against HE spam. Not sure about turret traverse but I think we can expect a fairly powerful brawler line  

I hope so, thanks for your explanation.

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Alle 30/3/2019 alle 10:54, AragornderHeld ha scritto:

In the end, probably those BB players who only stay at longer ranges and camp on the map's border (and don't know how to use their own ship) will complain and WG will change something...

LOL!!! :Smile_veryhappy:

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