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Inappropriate_noob

Gasgoine vs Vanguard

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Now from what I gather from the trusty CC's is that you angle, bow tank and then kite, in ships like this, I maybe wrong but thats the general impression I get, plus the Gasgoine is like training for the next ship I am going for, and what is not to love about those secondaries?

 

But the Vanguard, very nearly rage sold it after one game (although I admit I was in a rush as I had something else to do) does this ship have any redeeming feature at all, Yes I have seen reviews by CC's on the tube but, I find it  hard ship to to make work, am I right in thinking it is more of a flanker like the Gasgoine?

 

No spotter plane, no awesome secondaries, no guns of the Nelson, not the best advertisement for Brit BB's.

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48 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Now from what I gather from the trusty CC's is that you angle, bow tank and then kite, in ships like this, I maybe wrong but thats the general impression I get, plus the Gasgoine is like training for the next ship I am going for, and what is not to love about those secondaries?

 

But the Vanguard, very nearly rage sold it after one game (although I admit I was in a rush as I had something else to do) does this ship have any redeeming feature at all, Yes I have seen reviews by CC's on the tube but, I find it  hard ship to to make work, am I right in thinking it is more of a flanker like the Gasgoine?

 

No spotter plane, no awesome secondaries, no guns of the Nelson, not the best advertisement for Brit BB's.

Gascogne is a great trainer for the Republique since they have the same gun positions and they both have great secondaries. I think that the Gascogne can be an OP ship in the right hands, I have over 60% WR in it my highest for any T8+ BB. There is not much to say about that ship other than it is a beauty.

 

You're right about the Vanguard though and in fact most Brit BBs in general are a poor tech line, I feel like the ballistics are pure fantasy and let the whole line down. The only Brit BB I have kept is the KGV and Dreadnought for historical reasons, the rest is just meh.

 

I have heard that warspite is good, but WW1 ships are not really my thing.

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57 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Now from what I gather from the trusty CC's is that you angle, bow tank and then kite, in ships like this, I maybe wrong but thats the general impression I get, plus the Gasgoine is like training for the next ship I am going for, and what is not to love about those secondaries?

 

But the Vanguard, very nearly rage sold it after one game (although I admit I was in a rush as I had something else to do) does this ship have any redeeming feature at all, Yes I have seen reviews by CC's on the tube but, I find it  hard ship to to make work, am I right in thinking it is more of a flanker like the Gasgoine?

 

No spotter plane, no awesome secondaries, no guns of the Nelson, not the best advertisement for Brit BB's.

 

Can't say much on the Gascogne, but as for the Vanguard, it is a BB that requires a higher skill level to work as sailing around broadside will get you deleted, what it has going for it is Accuracy (something only Warspite and Hood have, the tech tree ships can't hit the broadside of a barn from within the barn), Turret traverse, an excellent rudder shift time and in my opinion much better AP shells as they don't have the stupid Short fuse gimmick. It is a ship that requires good use of the rudder to mitigate damage rather than tanking it with the armor, so more of a cruiser play-style, the HE works just like the rest but isn't as much of a no-brainier ammo choice as the AP is very decent on cruisers and broadside battleships due to the fact that the shells go where you aim them.

 

Still the Vanguard is not everyone's cup of tea, but for me it is a enjoyable ship as the shells actually go where I aim them rather than somewhere in the map quadrant the enemy is located in!

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Vanguard's very much a generalist BB. It's feels like a T8 Warspite, which is a thing I say as a statement of love because IMO Warspite is one of the perfect BB's in the game. No gimmicks, rewards skill, punishes misplays.

 

Like the Warspite you have quite good agility though only average speed for the respective tier. Same great heal as Warspite. Guns which reward switching ammo. Better AA but worse secondaries than Warspite, tier-for-tier, that's a standout difference. One of my favourite BB's -- the only standout weakness of Vanguard is the turret angles which means bringing the rear turrets to bear is a risky business, and you have to read the situations well.

 

I got the Vanguard from a Air Supply container, and this was my first game. Like they say, first impressions are everything. :Smile_ohmy:

 

Spoiler

HmZeFTb.jpg

MXRRqOu.jpg

 

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You have to play ships in an way, you can benefit from the features they have. Vanguard is a strong ship if played correctly. 

I won the Vanguard via These missions in the containers, i did not bought it. But it  is very fun to play. Its not a brawler. too high citadell, too bad firing ankles. 

 

What is strong: rudershift like a Cruiser, guns are very precise. big healthpool and strong heal. 

How to play: like a battlecruiser. Show no broadside, use the ruder, stay at range, use the precise guns. often switch ammotypes. go dark if you are focused. try to use all heals before getting sunk.

 

I have made 20 battles with this ship: nearly 89k average damage. no, this ship is not weak at all if correctly played. 

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I have a yolo secondary captain on my Gascan, hilarious ship, plus the captain doubles as my JB/second Repu captain. The ship is good, but a bit fragile, but so are all french BBs.

Vanguard? Never felt the desire to buy it. All of the Vanguards I saw in battle haven't really left a good impression. 

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Gasc flanks fast and is like a baby republique. Is very susceptible to HE however but makes up for it in having the speed to disengage a fight if needed. But fun to play overall.

 

Vangaurd is what BB in this game should be designed as. Punishable if mistakes are made but hit well and often. Very nimble in the turn for a BB and difficult for CV’s to drop torps on and AA is good for self defence against DB’s. High skill to really make her shine. She’s a pleasure to play so far.

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Once again superb advice folks, my major problem is I believe in going forward, pushing the flank etc, learning to disengage and 'kite' is a new thing for me, luckily when I toon up with my guys they soon point out my errors.

 

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8 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Once again superb advice folks, my major problem is I believe in going forward, pushing the flank etc, learning to disengage and 'kite' is a new thing for me, luckily when I toon up with my guys they soon point out my errors.

 

He who runs away lives to fight a another day.

 

This having been said, if you can, always run towards friendlies, not away from them.

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Vanguard plays very much like Hood.

 

As mentioned above, if you get on with Warspite & Hood the Vanguard will feel natural IMO.

 

Only had it a few days myself, but enjoying it so far.

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3 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Why do brit bbs have short fuses??

Cause Frank in the Munitions factory set the machine up wrong...

 

Jokes aside, maybe WG thought it was a good idea at the time considering it works fine on RN cruisers and they had stuck it on the Hood as a test... mind you considering the fact that the Hood had the Fuse time normalized which to me has made a big difference to the ship (Others seem to see it as a nerf for some reason?), so maybe at some point in the future WG will re-evaluate the RN BB line and maybe make it a bit less gimmick-ed.

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Install the concealment module and get the 4pt captain skill also. That brings Vanguards stealth down to 12.6k, but the ship has a shooting range of 20k. Then play the ship like Hood staying at distance, using the ships superior accuracy on distance shots (install Aiming System Mod 1 in slot 3) also to make it even better.

 

Don't rage quit the ship because once you get used to it's style of play. It is very much (like the Hood), fast and with great (cruiser like) rudder shift time, making it a fun ship to play and you'll start to enjoy using it. But you need try and protect that broadside against other BB by staying at distance. If you have to brawl other BB point blank, then stay "head on" at it showing no broadside moving in, Vanguard is pretty strong going at another BB head on, and once close enough use AP on their broadside - which can citadel most other BB close in brawling.

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Sound advice, very sound advice even @MRGTB Can't speak for the Rearguard, but it took me a few games to get the hang of playing my Kii, and I wasn't sure what to make of her.

 

Now? I don't regret buying her one bit.

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6 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

does this ship have any redeeming feature at all

Like Nelson it has improved fire chance starting on other ships, even if the fire chance stats are really not that impressive at only 34% (same as ships like Bismark). But it still starts fires on other ships easy enough because of that improved fire chance given to RN BB's, that a ship such as Bismark doesn't have with same fire chance 34% stats. But maybe it's worth investing 3pts on upping the fire chance anyway from 34% to 36%. HE is your best shell option used most when at range in the vanguard. So upping fire chance further for 3pts would be worth while on this ship when you consider other RN BB like KVG and Monarch have a even higher fire chance than 36%..

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9 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Cause Frank in the Munitions factory set the machine up wrong...

 

Jokes aside, maybe WG thought it was a good idea at the time considering it works fine on RN cruisers and they had stuck it on the Hood as a test... mind you considering the fact that the Hood had the Fuse time normalized which to me has made a big difference to the ship (Others seem to see it as a nerf for some reason?), so maybe at some point in the future WG will re-evaluate the RN BB line and maybe make it a bit less gimmick-ed.

Might just be me, but I find the short fuse as a plain nerf to AP with no redeeming qualities.

 

The idea behind it was that you would score more penetrations on thinly armoured targets, at the expense of citadels on thicker armoured ships like battleships. However, I find that while I can't reliably hit citadels on battleships, I still get more or less the same number of overpens on other targets. It gets to teh poit that any slight turtleback, or spaced armour will mean that ship is basically immune to a RN battleship when it comes to citadels. And then there is shoddy long range performance...

 

My guess would be the short fuse was used to ensure RN Battleships were predominantly HE firing ships. The AP does work, but it is a bit situational, while the HE can be used almost exclusively. It would have been nice if Vanguard could have got the normal fuse timing like Warspite, but if I remember right it gets the shoddy short fuse as well. It means random citadels do happen (on a Bismarck at 17km, hehe), but it won't do that reliably enough for my liking.

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9 hours ago, MRGTB said:

Like Nelson it has improved fire chance starting on other ships, even if the fire chance stats are really not that impressive at only 34% (same as ships like Bismark). But it still starts fires on other ships easy enough because of that improved fire chance given to RN BB's, that a ship such as Bismark doesn't have with same fire chance 34% stats. 

So you're saying both ships one the same tier have 34% fire chance, but one of them has.... bigger chance to start fires?
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33 minutes ago, Blixies said:

So you're saying both ships one the same tier have 34% fire chance, but one of them has.... bigger chance to start fires?

Actually it seems not now reading WIKI about the ship, I was mistaken on that. It does have 1/4 pen and high damage on her HE shells unlike many other nations BB shooting HE, but her fire chance is only average same as ships like Bismark - that has the same 34% fire chance as Vanguard.

 

Quote

Her HE shells, while having high damage, have a rather average fire chance more akin to battleships of other nations.

 

So no, it doesn't have any boosted fire chance. So it's not in the same league as ships like King George or Nelson for starting fires that have a high fire chance over 40%.

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1 hour ago, Centurion_1711 said:

My guess would be the short fuse was used to ensure RN Battleships were predominantly HE firing ships. The AP does work, but it is a bit situational

I've found shooting AP from range at other BB is pretty much not worth doing. It may work on Cruisers and DD's, but not so much at BB ships. The AP only seems effective against BB ships once you get inside brawling distance and have a broadside shot on them. Otherwise like you say, it's best to just stick with shooting HE from distance at BB ships.

 

I agree about the short fuse, I also didn't know that the Vanguard has that same stupid short fuse thing on AP shells. If the fire chance is pretty poor on the Vanguard, then they really should remove the short fuse thing on AP shells, or buff the ship on fire chance if they don't want to do that. As the ship doesn't have that much going for it gun wise then with a short fuse on AP and a low fire chance on HE shells. Not like 1/4 pen on the HE shells (with low fire chance) makes up for a poor performance on AP trying to do damage on BB from range.

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