british British Battleships & Battlecruiser Line + Premium Proposals/Suggestions

[StBg17]

Well first Forum Post lets jump in at the deep end.

 

So the current British Tree is complete with the introduction of the CVs what about doing something like the US Cruiser Split & Japanese DD Split but with the Brits with the BB’s splitting it into a second BB Line also starting at T3.

 

This as the general arrangement of the second BB Line: 

T3: HMS St. Vincent 

T4: HMS Neptune (1911) 

T5: HMS Audacious (1912) 

T6: HMS Revenge 

T7: HMS Prince of Wales 

T8: J3 Design (even though as BC design it is similar to the Hood plus an 18 inch armed BB at T8 seems a bit much although if anyone knows of a better suited second T8 please so say) 

T9: N3 Design 

T10: LIII Design 

 

Along with this BB Split there is also the possibility of a fully filled new ship type a Battlecruiser Line (this would only really be viable for the UK, Germany as they are really the only two that would befit from it) Please note I will not be including the Hood in this new Line as she sits fine where she is but more to the point by the time she entered service she was essentially a BB only classed a BC in name as she went faster the 30 Knots in fact the Hood was very similarly armed to the QE class with an armour to weight ratio of around 33% compared to the QE classes about 34% also Hoods main belt of 12 inches was only 1 inch thinner than the QE class 13 inch belt, but anyway I digress. 

 

The BC Line would look something like this: 

T3: HMS Invincible 

T4: HMS Indefatigable 

T5: HMS Lion (1910) 

T6: HMS Queen Mary 

T7: HMS Tiger 

T8: HMS Renown 

T9: G3 Design 

T10: K3 Design 

 

Having a second BB Line and a separate BC Line opens up the opportunity to add some great ships into the game that wouldn’t fit as BBs along with the ability of those who have grinded the current line two new ones to grind adding more ships to their port and who doesn’t like more ships. 

There are also several other ships that could be added but due to already constructed lines these could be added in as Premiums some for Coal/Steel/Free XP. 

 

Premiums: 

T1: 

N/A 

T2: 

Victoria – Pre-Dreadnought Battleship 

Royal Sovereign (1891) Pre-Dreadnought Battleship 

T3: 

Monmouth - Light Cruiser 

Caroline - Light Cruiser (Last surviving ship from The Battle of Jutland)

Inflexible - Battlecruiser 

T4:  

Agincourt - Battleship 

Argus - Aircraft Carrier 

T5:  

Erin - Battleship 

Colossus – Battleship 

Princess Royal – Battlecruiser 

Hawkins – Heavy Cruiser 

Possibly Courageous in her original config – Cruiser 

Scorpion – Destroyer 

Suffolk – Heavy Cruiser 

Barham – Battleship – sister of QE & Warspite 

T6:  

No. GB101b Design – Battleship 

Ajax – Light Cruiser 

Glorious – Aircraft Carrier 

Dorsetshire – Heavy Cruiser 

Savage – Destroyer 

Norfolk – Heavy Cruiser 

York – Heavy Cruiser (Exeter’s sister) With Smoke & Spotter Consumable 

Royal Oak - Battleship 

T7: 

Rodney – Battleship – Free XP Ship 

Dido – Light Cruiser 

Ark Royal – Aircraft Carrier 

Howe (planned Admiral Class – Cancelled during construction would have been similar to Hood with some difference) - Battleship 

Jamaica – Light Cruiser  

T8: 

Repulse – Battlecruiser 

Swiftsure – Light Cruiser  

Sheffield – Light Cruiser 

T9:  

M3 Design – Battleship – Free XP Ship 

K2 Design – Battlecruiser – Free XP Ship 

T10: 

L3 Design – Battleship - Resource Ship 

I3 Design – Battlecruiser - Resource Ship 

Malta – Aircraft Carrier – Resource Ship 

 

Indeed this is a lot of extra Prems (36) but they would not all be implemented or available at the same time for example the Rodney would be in her configuration when she still had her X-turret Catapult so she would have a fighter/spotter but being the Free XP T7 available when Nelson Isn’t and maybe to counter her fighter/spotter her heal would be reduced. And M3 & K2 being available at separate times one rotated in as one rotated out. Same with the resource ships only having one or two available at a time, and inevitably a few will not be spectacular such as the two T2 BBs but I chose them especially the Victoria history and the fact Victoria is the only vertical wreck, they would probably be similar in play style to the Mikasa but maybe better accuracy. But anyway, these are just my thoughts on ships that I personally would like added in some more than others and chances are not all of them will make it but it is nice to hope, but personally I think the BB split & BC Line would be a logical choice opening more avenues for content and some very historically significant ships. 

 

Please do leave feedback and your thoughts in the comments below and let me know anything I may have missed. I’m also currently working on something similar for the US Line (including the addition of USS New Jersey) along with the German, Commonwealth and French Tech Trees. 

[ColonelPete]

Nobody had this idea before. Ever. I swear...

[antean]

 Great Post StBg17. I'm not sure your suggestions will ever happen but you never know  .

[venderbomb]

Good effort pal!🙂

 

Love to see the Renown in game - late grandfather was on her during the war. T8 is extremely reachy though - T6 maybe

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

Those are a lot of magazine explosions you're suggesting there.  

[Oely001]

Renown is Tier VI at best. Repulse could be Tier V.

[Uglesett]

Thank you for that completely new, never before seen idea that's not been discussed on this forum ever before.

 

Also, I fully understand that the forum's own editing tools are entirely inadequate for the job, and "paste as plain text" is just one right click too many. It's not as if anyone uses the dark forum themes anyway, right?

[CptBarney]

52 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Thank you for that completely new, never before seen idea that's not been discussed on this forum ever before.

 

Also, I fully understand that the forum's own editing tools are entirely inadequate for the job, and "paste as plain text" is just one right click too many. It's not as if anyone uses the dark forum themes anyway, right?

This has to do with the topic in general because? Why whinge about something if you don't care about the topic at hand?

 

Nice hyprocrisy. Go and be an arse somewhere else.

 

On Topic: Nice list there i didn't realise we had soo many ships in general would be nice if wargaming were to implement those...oh well. Good effort nonetheless.

[ColonelPete]

32 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

 

On Topic: Nice list there i didn't realise we had soo many ships in general would be nice if wargaming were to implement those...oh well. Good effort nonetheless.

When you count paper designs, there should be dozens more.

The RN made at least 10 paper designs for BB/BC after WW1 in the early 20s.

[josykay]

I do not see Renown as Tier 8 material. Gneisenau after reconstruction is only at Tier 7, and she is simply in every area superior. Armor, Main guns, Secondaries, speed...

 

Also I strongly disagree, with spreading the Lion class and her modified Halfsisters around Tier 5  to Tier 7. They are similiar to each other,  not enough, to justify  that spread. Aside, from, well having a modernized Mackensen, which would have wiped the floor with them at Tier 6. No way, Tiger can sit on Tier 7.

I would rather sugget, to have the Lion at Tier 4,  similiar, to Orion, Tiger at Tier 5, similiar to Iron Duke, and Queen Mary as a Premium. And cut that Indefatigable class all together. As long as she is  not buffed through the roof, they simply wouldn't stand a chance against for example a Moltke class, the most likely Tier 4 German BC, which is better in every aspect, aside of maybe alpha damage. Faster, better armored, better armed, and having the ability, to actually fire cross deck, while it was for the british BCs nothing more than theoretical.

Maybe as a Tier 3 Premium, not as a Tier 4 ship. Also, incidently, Indefatigable lost her duel against Von der Tann, despite the later being the weakest german battlecruiser in quite spectacular fashion.

 

And then put Renown as a Tier 6. Since it fits  there more chronically, and armament wise.

[invicta2012]

8 hours ago, josykay said:

Also, incidently, Indefatigable lost her duel against Von der Tann, despite the later being the weakest german battlecruiser in quite spectacular fashion.

Sort of. RN gunnery was mostly excellent but their shells were unreliable. Jutland would have been very different if the Greenboy shells had been available. And of course Seydlitz very nearly suffered a magazine explosion of her own at Dogger Bank, allowing the KM to revise their working practices before Jutland took place. 

 

Lots of well trodden paths here otherwise. 15 inch guns at Tier V are a flat no, Repulse and Renown are Tier VI at most (I would rather have Renown) although I would still love to see a WW2 Tiger build at VI. Pre dreadnoughts are a no from WG although I love them to bits, and if we're likely to see any RN Premiums it's probably Ark Royal, London, Sheffield, Dido and Cavalier... Lots of Tier VII ships with a strong cash value. 

[fallenkezef]

Prince of Wales will be premium at best, WG wont have two KGV's as silver.

 

I'd happily grind silver Brit BC's and buy prem ones. We do need Brit and German Battlecruisers.

 

I'd love Dido and Norfolk as prems. Dido would be a baby Minotaur

[Centurion_1711]

7 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

I'd love Dido and Norfolk as prems. Dido would be a baby Minotaur

Been waiting for a Dido class for a while now, they look rather unique and it would have been nice to use one with all the CV spam. Such cool names as well, like Spartan, Black Prince, Bellona and so forth.

 

But on topic, the battlecruisers would be a fun addition. I'd personally like them to play something like Vanguard does: kiting, moderately tanky when angled but punishable if they show broadside. They need proper AP with the proper fuse time (sod short fuse) to give them some teeth to bite with. And of course they would all be faster than the standard Battleships, which suits me just fine.

 

Having said that, it would probably be better to get Italian cruisers in the game first, and maybe even some Dutch ships as well. Just to round the game out a bit. Also, I doubt teh RN line would end up with a "normal" ship line, the Battlecruisers would likely have some messy gimmick like HE only or horrid manoeuvrability. So best to put them off a bit for that alone. 

[wilkatis_LV]

Oh look, another amazing example of someone writing a forum post outside of the forum for whatever f-ing reason Can you explain to me what do we have the text box for then? Just take a screenshot of wherever you wrote the post and post pictures, at least that might make it more readable

[StBg17]

13 hours ago, Oely001 said:

Renown is Tier VI at best. Repulse could be Tier V.

Being in a BC Line of its own which would be essentially more along the lines of a heavy cruiser line just with bigger guns would mean the ships would most likely be more squishy than that of a BB Line, so could possibly be wing-able to fit in, if not at a lower tier there are many many more designs the RN had for BCs that would fit although most are with 18 inch guns, in fairness I originally though Renown at best possible case being a prem T6 BB.

 

2 hours ago, fallenkezef said:

Prince of Wales will be premium at best

Truth be told I couldn't find one that would fit other than the Rodney but thought having KGV at the tech tree would make more logical sense to have a similar ship to her on the split as having one with bigger guns like Rodney might make the KGV have a slight disadvantage. 

11 hours ago, josykay said:

Also I strongly disagree, with spreading the Lion class and her modified Halfsisters around Tier 5  to Tier 7. They are similiar to each other,  not enough, to justify  that spread. Aside, from, well having a modernized Mackensen, which would have wiped the floor with them at Tier 6. No way, Tiger can sit on Tier 7.

I would rather sugget, to have the Lion at Tier 4,  similiar, to Orion, Tiger at Tier 5, similiar to Iron Duke, and Queen Mary as a Premium

You make some valid points I chose to list them that way as that was the historical order they came in and true most of them would only be viable at the lower tiers due to all being from similar years.

 

16 hours ago, antean said:

Great Post StBg17. I'm not sure your suggestions will ever happen but you never know

I very much doubt it will its fun to imagine though lol.

2 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Having said that, it would probably be better to get Italian cruisers in the game first

True the Italians defiantly need to be added soon, should be easy to fill their tree.

2 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

the Battlecruisers would likely have some messy gimmick

Most likely the case, it would probably be the RN AP shells or the fact that their suited to more of the CL/CA hunters as they lack the armour to go up against most BBs and would have to be played carefully due to the thinness of their armour. 

12 hours ago, CptBarney said:

i didn't realise we had soo many ships

Neither did I and thats not even all of them just a select hand full, at its height around 1919 the RN had IIRC more than 100 or so ships.

[fallenkezef]

I find the focus on WW2 and post war ships a little depresing.

 

WW1 had such variety

[pzkpfwv1d]

This topic has been discussed numerous times, I even put out a poll some time ago, however very nice post 

Just a few additions though from my point of view - armoured cruisers, there are several classes which should be included because they had representatives at the Battle of Jutland and the ill fated class that were sunk at the start of the First World War by torpedoes should be included as well and I would love to see more pre dreadnought battleships included in the game of all nationalities and this would include the two Japanese semi dreadnought ships (4 x 12" and 12 x 10") 

[zFireWyvern]

Agincourt, yes please Wargaming. Overall nice, comprehensive suggestion however I think a few ships should be moved around a bit from the tiers you specified, Tiger, for example.

[StBg17]

20 hours ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

This topic has been discussed numerous times, I even put out a poll some time ago, however very nice post 

Just a few additions though from my point of view - armoured cruisers, there are several classes which should be included because they had representatives at the Battle of Jutland and the ill fated class that were sunk at the start of the First World War by torpedoes should be included as well and I would love to see more pre dreadnought battleships included in the game of all nationalities and this would include the two Japanese semi dreadnought ships (4 x 12" and 12 x 10") 

Ooh I didn't think about armoured cruisers, just as long as they dont make them play like Emerald.

 

5 hours ago, zFireWyvern said:

Agincourt, yes please Wargaming. Overall nice, comprehensive suggestion however I think a few ships should be moved around a bit from the tiers you specified, Tiger, for example.

Agincourt needs to be added, I agree with some being moved about a bit I just did this roughly the BC Line wasn't as easy as suspected to list.

[HussarKaz]

Isn't Renown to weak for Tier 8?

[Johan_Jung]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:07 AM, Oely001 said:

Renown is Tier VI at best. Repulse could be Tier V.

 

Maybe (likely yes), however Renown did successfully fight Scharnhorst & Gneisenau in 1940.

[Oely001]

41 minutes ago, Johan_Jung said:

 

Maybe (likely yes), however Renown did successfully fight Scharnhorst & Gneisenau in 1940.

Balancing != realism

 

Scharn and Gneise had orders to avoid fights with equal enemies, so they retreated. While Renown's 15'' could hit very hard, her armor would not have been able to resist any BB shells, even "the sisters'" 28 cm shells.

 

[Johan_Jung]

1 minute ago, Oely001 said:

Balancing != realism

 

Scharn and Gneise had orders to avoid fights with equal enemies, so they retreated. While Renown's 15'' could hit very hard, her armor would not have been able to resist any BB shells, even "the sisters'" 28 cm shells.

 

 

Yes, equal enemies is the word. 

 

Since Renown was completely modernized that might be a reason to put her at tier VII, while Repulse is tier VI.

[Hanse77SWE]

As long as I get the Agincourt, I don't care about the rest.

[Oely001]

43 minutes ago, Johan_Jung said:

Yes, equal enemies is the word. 

 

Since Renown was completely modernized that might be a reason to put her at tier VII, while Repulse is tier VI.

 

Again:   balancing != realism

 

Take ingame (!!!) Queen Elizabeth and Hood for comparison: QE is a solid Tier VI but defenitely not overperforming. Renown has same guns but two less of them, is only a little faster (28 vs. 24 kts), has maybe 10% more HP, some better AAA, and almost no armor. Hood on Tier VII has 8 guns of same caliber (which many consider too weak for T7), a lot more HP, more speed and much better armor.

 

In a (ingame!!!) 1 vs. 1 against Scharnhorst for example Renown would have little chance to win, only if she could stay at distance and burn her enemy down with HE, which would take ages with only six guns.