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Capra76

French Destroyers

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We know what the tech tree is going to be from the “info from around the world thread” so I thought I'd make an educated guess at what this line is going to look like based on the real world stats of the ships and the 2 premiums already in the game.

Reportedly, similar to Le Terrible, none of these ships get smoke generators, presumably they get the main battery booster instead (whether that's from T2 onwards we don't know).

Here goes:

T2 - Enseigne Gabolde

Spoiler

 

image.png.363ce0d7d793a7222a98559ee9b692f4.png

A real ships of the Enseigne Roux class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_destroyer_Enseigne_Gabolde.

  • 835 tonnes;

  • 31 knots;

  • 3 x 100 mm guns (10 RPM, 710-740 m/s 15kg shell)

  • 2 x 2 torpedoes.

Slow and relatively lightly gunned even for T2, will probably end up sitting somewhere between Umikaze and V-25 as a stealthy torpedo boat, I'd guess at something like:

  • Detection: 5.5 km;

  • torpedo range: 6.5 km;

  • gun DPM: 45,000;

  • HP: 9,000.

Low speed might be a problem but if you can boost the gun DPM up to 90,000 that's going to be brutal for other T2 DD.

 

 

T3 - Fusilier

Spoiler

 

image.png.c1f3dcc5768c60ca6906448965de095b.png

Paper ship, looks like a rejected design for the T4 Bourrasque, I'd guess sticking with the 100 mm guns from the T2, so if built would've been:

  • 1,200 tonnes (similar to Wickes, bigger than Wakatake, smaller than G-101);

  • 34 knots;

  • 4 x 100 mm guns (stats as at T2)

  • 2 x 3 torpedoes.

The extra gun and triple tubes are a big upgrade, I would guess that most of the other key stats will stay the same, thus:

  • detection and torp range: 6.5 km;

  • gun DPM: 60,000;

  • HP: 9,000.

 

 

T4 – Bourrasque

Spoiler

 

image.png.5e93b2c2703310b4a4b2f01d6f159a77.png

Lead ship of its class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourrasque-class_destroyer.

  • 1,298 tonnes;

  • 33.5 knots;

  • 4 x 130 mm guns (5 RPM, 725 m/s 35kg shell)

  • 2 x 3 torpedoes.

The 130 mm guns for this and the T5 makes this look like a pain to balance, DPM should be in the region of 40,000 although I guess they'll buff it up to about 50,000, maybe something like:

  • Detection: 6.6 km;

  • torpedo range: 7 km;

  • gun DPM: 50,000;

  • HP 11,000.

 

 

T5 - Jaguar

Spoiler

 

image.png.349251c719cd1661fb266e5bcfc829a8.png

One of the Chacal class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chacal-class_destroyer

  • 2,126 tonnes;

  • 35.5 knots;

  • 5 x 130 mm guns;

  • 2 x 3 torpedoes.

The problem of those 130 mm guns remains, they're just bad and now you're facing DD that can outgun you with your MGRB active, at least you've now got 5 of them but on a 2,000+ tonne hull that seems to get no real benefit from hauling around the extra 1,000 or so tonnes of weight, maybe:

  • Detection and torpedo range: 7.5 km;

  • gun DPM 62,500;

  • HP: 16,000.

Free XP sink most likely.

 

 

T6 - Guepard

Spoiler

 

image.png.10f11d4308b15cad17074eb9d2c83c69.png

Lead ship of the class, although some sources seem to refer to the class as “Bison”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%C3%A9pard-class_destroyer.

  • 2,436 tonnes;

  • 35.5 knots;

  • 5 x 138.6 mm guns (8-9 RPM planned, more like 5-6 in reality);

  • 2 x 3 torpedoes.

Very similar to the Aigle, main difference is ½ a knot speed and an older and slower ROF gun (1923 design v 1927 on Aigle), thus.

  • Detection: 7.7 km;

  • torpedo range: 8 km;

  • gun DPM: 100,000;

  • HP: 17,500.

I'm not sure how this works out as anything other than a worse Aigle, the decision to replace smoke with MBRB will surely be tested here.

 

 

T7 – Vauquelin

Spoiler

 

image.png.c17d48d212e79a869567e74070ed2620.png

Lead ship of the class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauquelin-class_destroyer

  • 2,441 tonnes;

  • 36 knots;

  • 5 x 138.6 mm guns (now with Aigle's 8-12 RPM);

  • 1 x 3 + 2 x 2 torpedoes.

Again, very similar to Aigle, quite how WG are going to make the odd torpedo arrangement work I don't know, stats will probably be something like:

  • Detection: 7.7 km;

  • torpedo range: 8 km;

  • gun DPM: 125,000;

  • HP: 18,000.

And again I don't see how this works out as anything other than a worse Aigle.

 

 

T8 - Le Fantasque

Spoiler

 

image.png.bd6893f4eb30c39d113f18b1f132ca07.png

  • 2,569 tonnes;

  • 45 knots;

  • 5 x 138.6 mm guns (now the 1929 model with a higher muzzle velocity);

  • 3 x 3 torpedo tubes.

Already in the game as Le Terrible, so Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V;

  • Detection: 8.5 km;

  • torpedo range: 8 km;

  • gun DPM: 120,000;

  • HP: 18,600.

 

 

T9 - Mogador

Spoiler

 

image.png.743b2bbae45e58ece978452564e29645.png

Lead ship of the class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogador-class_destroyer

  • 2,997 tonnes;

  • 39 knots;

  • 8 x 138.6 mm guns (the 1934 model);

  • 2 x 3 + 2 x 2 torpedoes.

The 1934 gun IRL was a disaster that could only manage about 5 RPM but I guess WG will go with the planned 10 RPM, so:

  • Detection: 9.5 km;

  • torpedo range: 8 km;

  • gun DPM: 160,000;

  • HP: 20,000.

 

 

T10 – Kleber

Spoiler

 

image.png.40a90117f66425768cf787fcd95dea0c.png

The MN seem to have planned a Kleber class destroyer but I can't find any details, presumably in game it'll be a Mogador clone with some of the stats turned up, your guess is as good as mine.

 

 

Overall my concern is that the smoke-free open water gunboat concept works (sort of) with Le Terrible because it can do 53.8 knots with flags and boost active and with the Soviets because they're almost as fast and can deliver "balance" accurately out to 14 km, but how's it going to work at T5 - T7 when you're stuck with an unremarkable 36 knots (boost not withstanding) and 700 m/s guns that'll struggle to hit much beyond 10 km?

 


 


 

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Capture.thumb.PNG.14ef300b2b786cdab550c42d8dd58b14.PNG

 

I'm sorry: What?

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yeah that's probably going to require some soft-stat tweaks... iirc Lyon got 33% extra speed out of absolutely nowhere (compared to the actual design specs)? So it's not like there's no precedent...

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Looking at how much the Terrible is played I can already see this line being dead on arrival. With no smoke and no heal the ships have no exit strategy, so you are either a super unicum zooming around or dead, no middle ground for average joes.

I see a lot of changes during testing and an end result of a make-believe line with characteristics completely different from the real life ships.

 

And on a lark, here are the numbers for Terrible last week:

Spoiler

EU - 40 players played her in 856 matches

RU - 12 players played her in 219 matches

NA - 17 players played her in 207 matches

SEA - 37 players played her in 410 matches

Source - maplesyrup

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Capture.thumb.PNG.14ef300b2b786cdab550c42d8dd58b14.PNG

 

I'm sorry: What?

 

Works okay on the white version of the page, due to the length I had to write it in Word then copy+paste onto the forum so apologies if that's causing problems for those using the dark version.

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MBRB is from tier 6.

 

Aigle has excellent shells that can be spammed at range. Speed is fine.

 

WW1 130mm shells are very floaty ones, we've used them before with Cyclone (now tier 4-5 with Bourrasque then Jaguar/premium Siroco)

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3 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Works okay on the white version of the page, due to the length I had to write it in Word then copy+paste onto the forum so apologies if that's causing problems for those using the dark version.

Right click -> "Paste as plain text"

 

Everyone should do this always.

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Whilst I know that it's a *long* way to go before these things get released, at the moment (to my very inexpert eye), they look rather like an entire tree of Terribles.

 

If that's the case, then they might be fun to play, but perhaps not terribly effective if you want to win (at least in this potato's hands)...?

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3 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Works okay on the white version of the page, due to the length I had to write it in Word then copy+paste onto the forum so apologies if that's causing problems for those using the dark version.

If you copy and paste you get the option to remove all formating from the source.

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6 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Looking at how much the Terrible is played I can already see this line being dead on arrival.

I suspect this may be rather prescient: I'm somewhere between poor and average, and mine stays exclusively in Coop - unless you're already a meister in something like Khaba (and can live without anything that really mitigates the lack of smoke), you're probably going to be a liability in a 'proper' game mode...

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9 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

With no smoke and no heal the ships have no exit strategy

and who said they won't get a heal?

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4 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Right click -> "Paste as plain text"

 

Everyone should do this always.

 

4 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

If you copy and paste you get the option to remove all formating from the source.

 

I'm not getting those options, possibly because I'm using Firefox?

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French DDs?

You mean French food for CVs, right? :Smile_trollface:

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36 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I suspect this may be rather prescient: I'm somewhere between poor and average, and mine stays exclusively in Coop - unless you're already a meister in something like Khaba (and can live without anything that really mitigates the lack of smoke), you're probably going to be a liability in a 'proper' game mode...

I like the Khabarovsk. Being the turn and burn ship suits my taste, but without a heal it would perform poorly in my hands.

 

39 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

and who said they won't get a heal?

Well, the Le Terrible doesn't have one, so if she's any indication the first iteration will be tested without one. Maybe like the Brits they will get one at T9-10, but that would just mean that people will have to suffer through 7 tiers of suck.

I'll wait and see, but right now I'm not excited. Anyway, the line will come at the end of the year so this right now is all speculation.

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From T6 on 138.6 mm.....seem rather potent for DD guns....or is there a catch in muzzle velocity, ROF or range ?

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37 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

From T6 on 138.6 mm.....seem rather potent for DD guns....or is there a catch in muzzle velocity, ROF or range ?

If they are like those on the Aigle? Slow turret traverse and the shells feel slow too.

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Maybe give them radar to make them decent dd hunters. Would be kind of interesting regardless of the sound of radar dds... They'd be in open water but spotted from afar and pretty boring if they end up as pure spammers like the Russian line.

 

...or maybe submarine hunters :Smile_ohmy:

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

French DDs?

You mean French food for CVs, right? :Smile_trollface:

 

Yup, releasing DD in current game doesn't sound like the best idea.

 

35 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Well, the Le Terrible doesn't have one, so if she's any indication the first iteration will be tested without one. Maybe like the Brits they will get one at T9-10, but that would just mean that people will have to suffer through 7 tiers of suck.

I'll wait and see, but right now I'm not excited. Anyway, the line will come at the end of the year so this right now is all speculation.

 

If not announced that doesn't mean they want get heal. T9/T10 RN DDs did get it after lot of testing. We don't even know initial stats just what WG would like them to be.

 

3 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Maybe give them radar to make them decent dd hunters. Would be kind of interesting regardless of the sound of radar dds... They'd be in open water but spotted from afar and pretty boring if they end up as pure spammers like the Russian line.

 

Please no. No more radar lines. Better give them, even some gimmicky, smoke or heal than radar. Also radar won't help them against CV and as their guns are not DP and having poor to meh AA they will need something just to survive in the games with one or two CVs. Some special DFAA would be way more useful. 

 

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Nice to see french DDs, I suspected we'd see them soon though I hope they will be more fun and feel less restricted than the Aigle or Terrible. Well, relatively soon, first british CVs then russian BBs and hopefully we'll see Italian ships at the end of the year?

 

Though I'm more excited for an Italian line (most likely cruiser) which had been leaked for possibly the end of 2018 during a german stream and by an former employee for 2019.

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I'm not gonna comment on anything having to do with playstyle. However, I am really happy about the fact that we have only two paper/fictional ships and seven real ones (*cough* Russian BB line...)!

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3 hours ago, Capra76 said:

Overall my concern is that the smoke-free open water gunboat concept works (sort of) with Le Terrible because it can do 53.8 knots with flags and boost active and with the Soviets because they're almost as fast and can deliver "balance" accurately out to 14 km, but how's it going to work at T5 - T7 when you're stuck with an unremarkable 36 knots (boost not withstanding) and 700 m/s guns that'll struggle to hit much beyond 10 km?

V, VI and VII aren't really that sort of ship. Their guns are meant to overwhelm other DDs in close combat or to punish BBs from behind islands. So really they need to be able to close the range on enemies aggressively (fast acceleration from 20-35+ knots), unleash MBRB, and then dodge (rapid speed loss in turns) and use speed boost to vamoose as quickly as possible. 

 

Their main weapon at range should be torps - they aren't capable of making torp soup or devastating attacks (Chacal and Guepard have 2 x 3, Vauquelin has 1 x 3 and 2 x 2 on each beam) so there would be no harm in giving them longer range, higher damage torps than most other DDs at their Tier - 8/9/10 KM at V/VI/VII, to give a little more comfort. WG should know from Aigle that these are not stealthy torp boats.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

V, VI and VII aren't really that sort of ship. Their guns are meant to overwhelm other DDs in close combat or to punish BBs from behind islands. So really they need to be able to close the range on enemies aggressively (fast acceleration from 20-35+ knots), unleash MBRB, and then dodge (rapid speed loss in turns) and use speed boost to vamoose as quickly as possible. 

 

The problem there is the detection range and that the ships have terrible arcs on the turrets, so you need to rush other DD whilst sailing sideways or give up 60% of your firepower whilst you do it plus the ships you easily outgun outspot you by an enormous margin and those that don't can broadly match you in a gunfight and have smoke to run away into if they can't.

 

It's a very niche playstyle, viable late game but who wants to play 20+ games island camping for the one game where that works and if you do why not take Omaha/Dallas/Helena instead?

 

 

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Their main weapon at range should be torps - they aren't capable of making torp soup or devastating attacks (Chacal and Guepard have 2 x 3, Vauquelin has 1 x 3 and 2 x 2 on each beam) so there would be no harm in giving them longer range, higher damage torps than most other DDs at their Tier - 8/9/10 KM at V/VI/VII, to give a little more comfort. WG should know from Aigle that these are not stealthy torp boats. 

 

WG have boxed themselves into a corner with Le Terrible, that has good 8 km torpedoes and Aigle (okay 8 km torpedoes) so I can't see WG handing out anything with longer range until T9/10 (and likely not then either).

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They turned Aigle into a really good hybrid with those buffed 8km torps, silver ships won't be so lucky. Tier 6-7 will probably get 6-7km torpedoes.

 

Oh, don't forget Tier V premium destroyer Siroco. This should get good torpedoes, maybe the 8km ones from Aigle? (~6.2km surface detect, 4 guns with a 10s reload, smoke and no MBRB I'm guessing) 

 

siro.jpg&key=b978e49f3e49e4e4b359bee56b9

 

 

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Their main weapon at range should be torps

 

Quello sarà il tema Italiano.

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13 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

The problem there is the detection range and that the ships have terrible arcs on the turrets, so you need to rush other DD whilst sailing sideways or give up 60% of your firepower whilst you do it plus the ships you easily outgun outspot you by an enormous margin and those that don't can broadly match you in a gunfight and have smoke to run away into if they can't.

Aigle's guns have 2k base HE damage per shell, if you can land a full salvo on an opposing DD you will really spoil its day. And that's where these ships should be going... short range bullies with good alpha HE damage, swift traverse, MBRB. Opposing DDs should be scared of bumping into these things, because they have harder hitting guns, more HP, and a reload consumable that can hand their backside back to them on a platter. Otherwise, as you say, why not take out an Emile or La Gal? 

 

9 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

Quello sarà il tema Italiano.

Well, yeah, but six torps every 90 seconds at Tier VI is hardly scary, even if they do go 9k. You're in competition with Fubuki and Monaghan (9@10k and 10/20@9.2k). Reduce the alpha damage/reload or vice versa to make it fair. 

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