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Lina_Hyo

Some nice words

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[UNICS]
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32 posts
1,066 battles

Here we go again.

 

For tl;dr, skip the first the wall of text and just read the last block.

 

Few days ago I decided to make a fresh start with my Beta Tester account, I had around 200 battles in Co-op, my last game was years ago and I just came back into the game. I contacted WG to reset it, just because I wanted to begin from scratch. After some trouble, like WG actually wiping my 50'000 games Unicum-WoT account while keeping the WoWs account intact, I was really frustrated and signed up my WoT second account for playing ships. Meanwhile everything has been settled, WG restored the mistakenly carried out wipe on my WoT account and resetted my WoWs account, yet I decided to keep playing on this one. This is only some background information, the reason why I created this thread is something else.

 

So I read tons of guides, watched videos on Youtube, lurked the forum and was instantly hooked by the game. I really tried to make a good start in the game by preparing and so far I can only say that especially the forum and the wiki have been really helpful. I found answers to all my questions, problems and interests, that the game never explained or teached me. For that I wanted to say thanks.

 

More importantly, I was really - and I mean really surprised how nice to community is. As already mentioned, I played a lot of WoT, managed to get in topclans, and top in terms of playerbase and WN8. But during the last few months I got more and more frustrated with the game, constant toxicity, frustrating battles and literally WG punishing good players for being good. People were constantly mad, insulting and salty, I was frustrated too. I could not recall when it was the last time I sat in front of the screen and said "I enjoyed this game, it was nice."

 


 

Yesterday I fired up WoWs, played some T1 and started to ask in the Battle Result channel (as the Division channel is literally just Clan spam) if anybody is willing to play in a division with me and teach me how to ship. Few minutes later a chat window popped up and some guy invited me to a division and oh boy I had an enlightenment. He was a really nice guy, took me by the hand for some games in T3, answered my questions, told me where to go, what to look out for and for the first time again I had fun in a WG game. Not the joke kind of fun, I really enjoyed it. The kind of enjoyment when you get up after logging out and can say to yourself, "this was nice". Something I cant even recall having in thousands of game of WoT.

 

So again, I just wanted to say thanks. So far this community has shown more positive aspects in the few weeks I know it than WoT managed since 2012.

 

For those interested, here are replays of the games we played, I am always up for criticism. And if anyone else is willing to teach me some stuff, just contact me ingame.

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[CN_]
Moderator, WoWs Wiki Team
721 posts
4,898 battles

It's nice to read that you have fun with this game now. If you still want to improve your skills, I can really recommend the "Project Help Me", it's a discord server where lots of good players try to help beginners or other players, who want to improve while avoiding things like stat bashing. Here's the link to the discord: https://discord.gg/c4vK9rM

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[KURLA]
Players
920 posts
17,679 battles

Sry, i kind of took my sweet time with this.

I hope some of this is helpful.

 

In general:

Spoiler

-Don't give broadside to enemy BBs. You saw what you can do to cruisers with citadels. They can do the same to you.

-You try to have an eye for your surroundings. Not there yet but very commendable.
-Try to keep your front guns pointing towards the same side of your center line for as long as feasible and do the same after you switch that side.

Adjust your course slightly if needed unless you have to swing them around or make bigger turns.

That way your rear guns will almost always point towards the enemy and you can bring significantly more fire-power to bear when needed without having to wait for your turrets or wildly swing the entire ship around.

Note how you tend to use your front guns only for a large portion of the battle, giving up 50% of your fire-power.

-If an enemy ship is on low health generally take a shot at it (unless someone else is close to finishing it off anyway), it's never a bad idea to take enemy guns out of the fight.

-You seem to be in a habit of aiming a bit too high, especially when the ship is coming towards you (directly or at an angle) Horizontal aim looks fine.

Try aiming a bit lower unless the enemy is sailing away from you and your results should markedly improve.

-Ideally fire all of your available guns at once at a target (unless you're certain a lesser number will surely take it out),

that way your full volley is already in the air by the time the enemy either gets the notification from the skill or sees you (firing penalty on concealment)/your shells

-Signal flags: India Delta and India Yankee are very powerful on battleships. November Foxtrot is also highly recommended.

-Premium dmg-con and repair +PT on the captain. Love it.

-Mount a camouflage (if you can). A Type 1 is cheap and enough for most purposes. (This will be more useful as soon as you get Concealment Expert)

-No one can help you against carrier attacks at low tiers. No one has any real AA (besides the Katori) and CVs can't spawn fighters.

In general the only effective way to shield yourself from CV attacks is to stick with other ships, ideally ones with good AA. Or have massive AA yourself (if the CV is not top tier)

CVs can no longer counter other CVs.

 

Replay 1 (Polar):

Spoiler

-Positioning wise not much to say. You tried to stay central to the fight which is good, You should have bailed form the middle sooner though.

A bit more minimap-awareness could have told you that the left flank was collapsing, which created that nasty crossfire you found yourself in later.

Don't worry it'll come with experience.

-DDs are the biggest threat to you at those tiers. Your pal told you to focus BBs and cruisers but it's never a bad idea to try to get some hits on a DD if you think you can hit it.

You might not land many shells but one of your overpens is worth about ~10% of that DDs total HP.

-You didn't your your dmg-con on a single fire: very good. But when you have 2 of them burning it makes sense to use it. (you might not have noticed in the exitement)

-Turning away and kiting when the DDs approach. Very nice.

 

Replay 2 (Ring):

Spoiler

-It would have been a good idea to sail away from the DD+Phoenix that came out of the gap. You had plenty of support but

1) it's a good habit to get into and 2) you never know if that DD does not plan on yoloing you.

-You can't shoot a spot behind an island if you can't see the ocean at that point unless you are locked on a ship behind it.

Otherwise the game will set range for the island (cuz that's technically where your crosshair is pointing) and only set range w.r.t. the ship if it's locked on.

-HE against CVs is kind of out-dated. It's still a good rule of thumb at this low tier because the T4s have so little armour most AP overpens and you can easily get HE-citadels.

-When an enemy BB pops up at mid-close range on your broadside generally stop doing whatever you are doing (unless a torpedo-armed ship is charging you or something) and angle and focus down that BB.

-Shot correction: You saw 2 of your salvos land in front of the Hermes. Next step should be to aim further towards his rear to make them land.


 

Replay 3 (Strait):

Spoiler

-Not a fan of both of you hunting the carriers after getting the cap. Really not.

It was okay because 1) the game was essentially won and 2) the map is small enough that you can do that and come back quickly

but in general if you have won on your side go and support the center or the other side, pushing the enemy spawn is very rarely a good move.

 

Replay 4 (New Dawn):

Spoiler

-The enemy DD was attacking your div-mate and you had a clear shot. Not a good one but you had no better targets anyway. Just shoot, at worst you'll miss.

-After 3 minutes most of the enemy team was spotted pushing the eastern flank and you still played it very safe in the west.

You noticed that ~2min later which is pretty nice and correctly started pushing north/east between A and B (alternatively you could have turned around to support your forces between B and C)

This point is not a criticism i just wanted to point it out so you can get an eye for that sort of development.

-Later it would have probably been best to just charge straight north/east to get some more dmg and chase them away instead of going into B, as the battle was already won at that point.

When you are absolutely sure there's no way you can loose anymore feel free to go ham on the enemy.

-Again too much broadside given to the Bellerophon. BBs will become more accurate the higher tier you go, so  you can risk loosing half your health in one salvo by giving full broadside.

-You noticed yourself that you were "too slow". Part of that was that you played it very safe at the start and only started moving closer around 5 mins in.

You have heals, armor (not so much at that tier though ^^) and a bunch of HP. You can go in more aggressively at the start and disengage when things start going south.

Your HP pool is not much use if no one is shooting you.

 

 

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[KURLA]
Players
920 posts
17,679 battles

Sry for the delay, those more comprehensive posts take me quite a while to create (too much 1337 paint skillz)

If you have any questions/criticism/remarks regarding my comments feel free to speak out.

Also please excuse me if my comments come across as overly harsh. I'm completely rubbish at making stuff sound nice.

Especially map awareness is one of the things that takes quite some experience to acquire

and what I'm mainly trying to do here is give you some examples on how one would go about analyzing the situation at a glance.

And what some possible reactions/counters to the enemy could be.

 

Replay 5:

Spoiler

Feast your eyes on this great commentary, that clearly didn't get deleted somehow. Isn't it awesome ?

Yes, i think so too. Also anyone saying this is a placeholder is the oranges of fake news.

The real thing clearly won't be re-done sometime this weekend because this commentary is already perfect.

oh fml.

 

Replay 6:

Spoiler

Ok, again let's begin by analysing the general situation at the start.

First of all a quick glance at the team list:

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_20_14.16-0734.jpg.ada4a228d16e5877759d900f2500209c.jpg

  • A double carrier game, one of which is a T8, i.e. top tier and in div with a Mass and a Balti.

So from the start we know that getting separated is potentially very dangerous. The Scharns AA, like most at T7' really can't stand up to the beefy T8 USN planes.

The Furious it could at least potentially discourage, but if she (the CV) has a good captain she can strike successfully and hard if the Scharn is alone.

 

  • Not all is lost however. Excluding CVs you have at least 3 ships with enough AA to discourage the CVs on your team (if they stick with their team):

-the Cleveland (T8+ USN cruisers and BBs have (among) the best AA in the game)

-the Hipper (Hipper/Eugen, Hinden and the high tier MN cruisers have good AA in general)

-and the Bismarck (top tier KM BB, often running a secondary build, which buffs AA as well)

(i'm not counting the Aki since she's only decent and keeping pace with a DD is usually suicidal for a BB)

 

  • There are only 2 BBs per team, T8 and T7

the Scharn has good armor so you will probably have to do a fair bit of tanking for your team (ideally)

on the other hand there is less devastating long-range fire to be expected and fewer heavy guns to keep track of

 

  • The Balti is a favourite for good CA players at T8 and brings good synergy to this top tier div, the Mass is no slouch either,

so one should assume it's a strong div and prepare for a hard fight.

 

So let's look at the spawn and look around for our meatshields against the flying fun-sized-death-and-agony-dispensers:

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_19_36.49-0471.jpg.3d74c14855f44f4da1afc3d64fad2138.jpg

Now let's think where those 3 will most likely go:

-The Hipper will probably push the western flank, he has no assured BB support so he might turn back if he faces a BB and you don't support his flank

-The Cleveland will most likely camp with the Boise around F7 until he is pushed away from that position. It's a favoured spot for HE-spamming cruisers with high arcs. On top of that he can radar D from there.

-The Bismarck is likely to push the eastern flank. He's a top tier BB so it's unlikely he'd flee easily unless faced with heavy opposition

 

That gives you some options where to go initially:

Spoiler

1865955302_shot-19_04.05_19_36.49-0471-Copy.jpg.208df3177ed79d566d40bc9438659d6c.jpg

Note: there are planes approaching and you are pretty isolated from all ships with good AA. (just by virtue of the teams spawning locations) Keep track of them and be ready to pop your fighters.

  • Option 1: Push with the Bisco and Algerie to the east.

Imo not the best choice here. The Scharn likes getting broadsides and if both of your BBs are in the same square the enemy can easily angle against both of you, reducing your impact significantly.

On the plus side you will have a lot of HP, armor and firepower on that flank and have a better chance to force the enemy back to secure the cap.

  • Option 2: Support the western Flank

The default-option so to speak. It's rarely a bad idea to make sure each side has at least one battleship to take the fire and punish broadsiding cruisers.

Having a BB also has a psychological impact, your enemy is more hesitant to push if he has to deal with that much armor and firepower to do it.

  • Option 3: Camp the center at the start to farm broadsides on both caps

The sneaky option. If you point your bow towards the east-north-east in the indicated spot you are angled against enemy forces pushing A and D and can farm broadsides on both.

The surrounding islands also make disengaging rather easy and you will most likely have a Cleveland and Boise close-by for AA support.

The problem with that position is that it is very dangerous if an enemy dd manages to sneak up un-spotted from the B-cap

 

Personally i would take option 2 or 3, depending on where the enemy is going (double CV game, so you can expect a lot of early spotting).

Side remark: those 3 options would be perfectly good choices even if there were no CVs in the match.

 

Interlude: A point about fighters/approaching planes

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_20_32.59-0374.thumb.jpg.26cb94386bce7290badbc59ba692e1ee.jpg

 

At this point at the latest it's clear that the Furious is out for your blood and you should pop fighters.

They will take a while to get into the air and start their patrol pattern, ideally you want to pop them a bit before the enemy planes enter your AA range,

otherwise there is a chance that they will be too late to attack during the strike and only tag the planes after they delivered their first payload.


Before the match develops much you get some more CV harassment though (no he doesn't hate you):

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_19.39_04-0609.jpg.12ae25391ac7043452f88d234507e4fe.jpg

Note how almost every ship on your team is either far away behind your lines (the CVs) or in a group where 1 of them is among the 3 "AA-ships" i mentioned earlier.

The only exceptions being you and the Aki. Among which you are the easier target.

Also note that the enemy CV has an easy approach (marked in red) towards you without having to fly through the AA of any of your teams ship besides you.

Basically you are the most inviting target for the CVs. Soon after it will be your Algérie, which is moving away from the safety of the group but at the moments it's you.

 

At this point we can also see that the enemy is heavily committed towards D.

This leaves us with 2 options:

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_19_39.09-0509.jpg.373b36b93471ba6726a8309686e9f548.jpg

(since you can't shoot over the island you're behind in that img and re-positioning until you can would take a lot of time and expose you to CV attacks as above)

  • 1: Angle away and move towards the Bismarck to get mutual AA cover for both of you and direct attention away from your Boise/Cleve

This again has the problem that the enemy can easily angle against both your BBs and you'll have a hard time getting out of the line of fire if needed.

  • 2:Turn north and stay bow-in to create a crossfire between you and the Bismarck. This way you can also disengage quickly by pushing behind the island.

On the down-side the Cleve was about to go down so you'd only have the Boise for AA support and it would put you into the Massachusetts secondary range.

 

You hesitate a bit but go with option 1 when the Cleve goes down rather quickly.

A perfectly reasonable choice in that situation.

 

For a few minutes not much remarkable happens while you stick with the Bismarck and your flank is being pushed back.

You are still in the habit of giving way too much broadside to enemy BBs (and CAs) though.

Spoiler warning: This prolly cost you the match at the end.

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_21_53.19-0514.thumb.jpg.fb7a69aefae58e43de5a7fc01527647f.jpg

Perfect broadside to 3 enemy ships. This could have been substantially worse.

Also note: The Algérie that was all alone got focused by the Lexington since he was an easy target.

Btw: ideally you would have either loaded HE against the fully stern-in Massa or held you fire or switched targets to the Colorado in this situation.

 

The next point i would like to point out is the opportunity you are missing at this point:

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_19_45.17-0639.jpg.6641a3526b583a783ed25513328e1b89.jpg

At this point you are still pretty healthy, your Boise is moving towards them to protect the C cap and those 2 BBs are basically all alone.

A cyclone is approaching as well, meaning that in a few minutes visibility will shrink drastically and distant forces can no longer see/support each other well

I see 2 moves to exploit that positioning You could have used to cover of the island to do a 180 and then

 

1) use the cover of the island to stay unspotted as long as possible, sail straight towards them (southen path) to yolo them with your torpedos and shoot their flanks while you pass.

A high risk high reward strategy, since that, if successful, most likely would have caused their entire D flank to collapse,

giving the Boise and you (if you survived) access to the D cap and a free way to either flank their B force or potentially attack/kill the enemy carriers before they can reposition in response.

This kind of move is something that the T7 german BBs and the Tirpitz in particular excel at,

there are few things scarier to most BBs than a fairly healthy Tirpitz that has managed to close the distance before they can turn around and is rushing them.

 

2)  use the cover of the gap to push into D.

This potentially makes you end up on their flanks with an opportunity to pull off yolo-torps as well,

but has the risk that they will have pushed past the edge of the island by the time you arrive, which would leave your Boise to die (not doing anything will do the same though)

but at the same time allows you to push north and surprise-rush the enemy CVs while shooting at the flank of the enemy cruisers in B.

Doing that might turn you into a distraction for the enemy BBs as well, giving your Boise a bit of breathing room.

 

Both of those moves would have made you the prime-target for the BBs and CVs though but imo it would have been doable and definitely worth it, particularly option 1.

 

 

Choosing to deal with the cruisers in B first was a valid option, but way more risky that it looked.

A better option would have been to turn around after killing the Indianapolis and stick with the Bisco to support him,

again at this point you still had enough HP and help to potentially deal with the Massachusetts.

The associated risk isn't that obvious but it was likely to and actually does happen:

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_22_40.24-0198.thumb.jpg.1d3da2a879bfb7e151c6775426deb226.jpg

The Baltimore saw your push coming and correctly decided to just go into the now undefended C.

 

The bigger problem is that you are now out of good moves.

The Balti is in division with the Lexington, which does not care much about your AA, so you can't cap B alone since the CV will likely hound you and can reset you easily and repeatedly.

Not only that but since you are basically alone there and the ship alive on your team with the weakest AA chances are the Furious will pile on as well.

You can't cap D either due to the same reasons.

You won't catch the CVs either since they will know you're coming, courtesy of the Balti. And again the Lex will hound to death you before you could even get close.

 

Chasing after the Baltimore isn't good either, since that means pushing into 2 BBs and a CA, none of which you overmatch and that are all prepared for you coming at them.

It was still your best option at that point as it would mean joining up with the Bismarck and at least have a fighting chance against the Balti, Mass and the CVs.

 

Now to the situation/fight after the CVs did a number on you:

Looking at the points the enemy either has to get another kill or at least block/cap one of your caps.

They chose to do both:

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_19_53.22-0857.thumb.jpg.9e258ecb0ce00f747ea4ec8529aa8512.jpg

Looking at the situation you are guaranteed dead. If the surface ships won't kill you the CVs certainly will.

The only question how much you can squeeze out of your 22k hp.

You had half the caps, 2 CVs left alive, the enemy ships were low-ish you had and approximately equal points. I.e. at this point it was still winnable.

If you could have killed one of them you had a decent chance at winning (all hinging on the CVs finishing the other one and keeping the cap reset)

If you had managed to kill both this would have been a certain victory, gained by your hand.

 

Now the one big criticism i have in this: Why did you turn away instead of turning towards them when you spotted them coming north ?

Spoiler

shot-19_04.05_19_54.11-0258.thumb.jpg.6ff771093b624ef27efff1e69d965324.jpg

The Scharnhorst is very tanky but ONLY when angled.

Turning away meant giving broadside to both of your enemies and thus taking massive dmg in a very short time.

Not only that, it prevented you from closing into torpedo range, which would have been your best move in this situation and likely earned you 1, potentially 2 kills and a more or less certain victory.

Otherwise killing the Balti with guns/torps and then just ramming the Mass would have been an assured win as well.

As i stated, either they would have won on points in ~1 min or you would have gotten killed in that window if you didn't turn this around.

There was nothing to gain by running, the service cost are fixed and do not depend on weather you make it out of the battle alive or not.

 

The way it ended up happening those 2 could still amass their AA, making it very hard for your CVs to kill them both as required to win after your death.

 

 

Some remarks about your aim at the end:

Spoiler

You still tend to aim too high when shooting at cruisers in this replay, on BBs you might want to hit a bit higher though when using the Scharn or cruiser AP,

to try to hit the upper casemate above the armor belt to get likely heavy penetration dmg in exchange for mostly giving up the chance to get a citadel.

 

shot-19_04.05_22_25.29-0033.jpg.0409ab375e82a659416a200c5a6ea124.jpg

Here the Colorado is clearly turning in towards you to angle his armor (not easy to see on a still-image, but you can see that the ship is "leaning into the curve" a bit.

In those situations (if you have no overmatch) aim a bit on front ("below") his bow to try to hit his superstructure to get some AP dmg in or switch the target.

 

shot-19_04.05_22_27.13-0652.jpg.5144a03114169f31d2bdb2c62f05345d.jpg

When a cruiser is heavily angled towards or away from you like this don't try to hit his broadside.

On many cruisers, especially mid-tier ones the belt armor is the only thing that can actually bounce your shells and at these angles the WILL bounce if they can.

Aim for the nose/stern (whichever is pointing at you) instead since that will due to overmatch ensure that you get

at least a bunch of overpens, with penetrations more likely and a decent chance to hit his citadel through the nose (depending on the angle he's at).

 

You were a bit too hasty in shooting the Baltimore.

Note how he is flanked by torpedoes in the image below ? Some CVs like to do this to enemy ships in brawl to help their allies:

shot-19_04.05_19_53.36-0407.jpg.95606d94d4582450b43c4b3a4dc2a9e7.jpg

Those torpedoes from behind mean he has to turn to align his course with them or else eat that dmg in a critical situation.

If you had waited a bit you might have been able to nail that kill with your AP.

We can easily chalk that up to lack of experience and nervousness though, i might have fumbled that as well in that situation.

But it's something you can look out for, it's very helpful when your CVs know to use this trick in a situation where they can't directly kill the target.

 

Lastly, again:

Never use wide-spread torps, especially from max range and especially when the match is on the line and you'll prolly need both sets.

shot-19_04.05_19_54.11-0258.thumb.jpg.6ff771093b624ef27efff1e69d965324.jpg

 

 

 

 

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