Radio Location - good decision to implement?

[loppantorkel]

There was a lot of angst when they first introduced RL in the game. Then people realised it wasn't the end of the world. Still - is the game improved by it? Is the game more fun? Would you like to see more, similar captain skills?

[xxNihilanxx]

Mis-read the third section as "a requisite in competitive" so 3rd answer would be different.

[Miessa3]

Well my opinion hasn't changed since introduction so I just repeat myself.

That captainskill is nothing more than a legal "wallhack" (concealmenthack? ) and shouldn't exist in a game that is so reliant on the game mechanic of concealment.

The flaws of having this skill in the game becomes immediatly aparent if you think about why WG (wisely) descided against CVs having that skill.

[Pikachu_Lv32]

With radar and CVs as they are in the game currently. RL is needed just to help the average DD player survive for more than 5 minutes. 

[Miessa3]

2 minutes ago, Taffia_ said:

With radar and CVs as they are in the game currently. RL is needed just to help the average DD player survive for more than 5 minutes. 

I don't understand your argument?

 

1) It won't help against radars as the enemy DD is closer to you most of the time in the starting minutes of the game where this actualy matters because the radarships weren't spotted yet.

2) RL doesn't work on Planes.

[Bear__Necessities]

It’s not needed. Never was. Am I gonna abuse it?  yes. It pretty much gets me a kill once every 3 games due to predictive torping. If you run it and the opposing DD doesn’t... 

[Pikachu_Lv32]

1 minute ago, Miessa3 said:

I don't understand your argument?

 

1) It won't help against radars as the enemy DD is closer to you most of the time in the starting minutes of the game where this actualy matters because the radarships weren't spotted yet.

2) RL doesn't work on Planes.

1) Actually it does, that small snippet of information of the direction of the closest ship plus, plus knowing the map itself can help you to know what type of ship is likely there. Radar cruisers tend to push to islands early to use radar. This often shows with RL skipping between them and a DD early on or when it points to an island within 10km you know its and ambush and can kite away, before they can act. It also helps you to bait out radar and set up torp runs on ships you can't even see often enemy DDs. You can also use it to notify your team when is the best time to push a cap. 

 

2) No it doesn't but it gives you more information to make the right decision. Letting you know by avoiding the CV in one direction might lead to being spotted by a DD or cruiser. So you pick a safer course Increasing your survivability. 

 

Not all players seem to read the map in the bottom right and what's happening. RL atleast gives them some of this information in an easy to digest format. "danger is closet in that direction'"to which they can act on and assist the team. 

[Ubertron_X]

I deliberately do NOT run the skill on any torp bootes because I do not want to telegraph my presence to my prey. I do run the skill on some of my DD-hunter DD's though (e.g. Z-46) and with good results.

 

A must have skill in competitive from time to time I find it completely useless in random games as radar or CV planes do the job much better and/or the general direction of the enemy DD is already known.

[Miessa3]

24 minutes ago, Taffia_ said:

1) Actually it does, that small snippet of information of the direction of the closest ship plus, plus knowing the map itself can help you to know what type of ship is likely there. Radar cruisers tend to push to islands early to use radar. This often shows with RL skipping between them and a DD early on or when it points to an island within 10km you know its and ambush and can kite away, before they can act. It also helps you to bait out radar and set up torp runs on ships you can't even see often enemy DDs. You can also use it to notify your team when is the best time to push a cap. 

 

2) No it doesn't but it gives you more information to make the right decision. Letting you know by avoiding the CV in one direction might lead to being spotted by a DD or cruiser. So you pick a safer course Increasing your survivability. 

 

Not all players seem to read the map in the bottom right and what's happening. RL atleast gives them some of this information in an easy to digest format. "danger is closet in that direction'"to which they can act on and assist the team. 

1) In a normal battle (if the DD didn't go afk at the start or load in late) the DD will be in front of the radar cruiser before you are close enough to see a "switch" in direction especially if the cruiser is already near the radar location. Yes it works if there is no DD on this flank in a game with maybe just one DD per side but the effect on the survivalrate of that is so marginal that it can't outweight the negative survivability coming from the RL equipped DDs coming to hunt you. The rest you mentioned doesn't have anything to do with DD survivability at all. Sure RL CAN promote teamplay and is a powerful tool for that. (too powerful for devisions i think) Counting on teamplay in pure randoms however.....

 

2) You can't avoid a CV. His planes are two times faster. Yes you can try to avoid enemy DDs with this skill, but the problem is this skill works both ways.

 

Balancing or introducing a skill aimed at the stupidity or ignorance of players to look at the map is never a good idea imo.

[Verblonde]

I don't mind it in the game, but having it as a four-pointer is wise - to take it, you have to give up other valuable skills.

 

I don't run it myself (possibly unwisely) for a couple of reasons: the main one is that (as @Ubertron_X says) it's an enormous "here I am" sign to the enemy, assuming they think to communicate to their team that they're detected; the moment you get the signal that RL has you, you know to expect speculative torps, and can take appropriate action to counter them. Besides that, I'd generally rather pick other skills for most of my DDs that are more sympathetic to my play style (fairly aggressive).

 

That said, I was thinking of trying RL on my Shima captain next time we get a free respec...

[loppantorkel]

I don't use RL in Random Games because I don't like it. Kind of makes the game a little worse still imo. There's a disadvantage without it in some situations, but for me it's just more enjoyable without the certainty and the distraction of RL. If they introduce submarines, I hope they change the skill, make it less accurate and only effective as a submarine hunting tool. It's not terrible in the current version, but I don't think it brought much value to the game either.

[El2aZeR]

Used it on the Clemson.

It was funny. 

 

If you have sufficient situational awareness RL is often not necessary. Doesn't mean it is any less stupid of a skill though.

[Lootboxer]

I use it on some dds on some I don't. What I noticed is that if I play longer RLed dd and switch later to non RL one I feel blind sometimes. Usually only for a one battle, then I rely on situational awareness. It's good to have in randoms but not totally necessary skill, much more must have in CB with team speak, plus triangulation can sometimes pinpoint location of red DD. 

[Linkaex]

I only have it on one captain. It is a cool feature but I don't find it necessary. 

I always wonder for those who use it on Zao if there aren't better ways to spend those 4 points on. Seems rather useless on it if you ask me. 

 

If you want to be a DD go play a DD 

[Procrastes]

I recently made a poll about the raison d'être for the 'Radio Location' skill:

 

This being said, I welcome further debate!

 

I still hold with what I wrote in my own poll, namely that I believe that 'Radio Location' should be removed. I do not use it myself, but this is only because I believe that I can get more value out of other possible skill choices for my captains. And I do not think that 'Radio Location' is necessary to be competitive in most destroyers - it is highly useful, but not to the exclusion of the alternatives. When I've been alerted to the fact that I've just been 'located', I assume that torpedoes might be incoming and I adjust my speed and course to counter this. The most definable effect, is the pervasive feeling of, "Oh no, not again. How boring." Which is really my main objection to this skill: That it makes the gameplay experience less fun. Enough said.

[DFens_666]

41 minutes ago, Linkaex said:

I only have it on one captain. It is a cool feature but I don't find it necessary. 

I always wonder for those who use it on Zao if there aren't better ways to spend those 4 points on. Seems rather useless on it if you ask me. 

 

If you want to be a DD go play a DD 

 

Good for stealth torping DDs

Did that quite often with my Takao on which i used RPF first. But since then i use it also on Fiji and Minotaur (latter is more obvious because i use Radar, it gives so much info ) But it has been helpful on Fiji too, since T5 Maps can be smaller and you can surprise DDs with that.

For me its a good alternative skill instead of going for more AA... lets face it, certain Cruisers dont need 19 pt captains really, it mostly ends in skilling more AA since thats the most useful compared to the other skills.

[Mr_Snoww]

pretty sure this has been discussed to death...

[loppantorkel]

7 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

pretty sure this has been discussed to death...

What has?

[SirAmra]

Was and still is against it. I rly don't see the point of having such a skill that "removes" skill in a game.

Good players can abuse the hell out of the skill, while the tomatoes have no clue with or without it.

When this "skill" got released I posted a picture in WG patch thread with picture of me blindtorping an enemy DD heading for same cap as me on the RPF location.

The ability to sneak up on someone is removed when RPF is in the battle, and last man left alive and might run to safety and win on points.....RPF shows the way.

I don't use it, I take pride in my "skills" or lack of.....

But just to make it interessting, make radio silence a 2 point skill, but keep RPF on 4 points. Make it cheaper to counter it for DDs.

[Procrastes]

2 minutes ago, SirAmra said:

But just to make it interessting, make radio silence a 2 point skill, but keep RPF on 4 points. Make it cheaper to counter it for DDs.

The Devil in me approves of this idea, Sir!

The Cynic in me observes that your solution, while commendable in its own right, would turn a 4-point skill point sink into a 6-point skill point sink.

The Devil in me approves even more.

 

[Cambera_1]

7 minutes ago, SirAmra said:

Was and still is against it. I rly don't see the point of having such a skill that "removes" skill in a game.

Good players can abuse the hell out of the skill, while the tomatoes have no clue with or without it.

When this "skill" got released I posted a picture in WG patch thread with picture of me blindtorping an enemy DD heading for same cap as me on the RPF location.

The ability to sneak up on someone is removed when RPF is in the battle, and last man left alive and might run to safety and win on points.....RPF shows the way.

I don't use it, I take pride in my "skills" or lack of.....

But just to make it interessting, make radio silence a 2 point skill, but keep RPF on 4 points. Make it cheaper to counter it for DDs.

The catch on the Radio Silence would need to be:-

• No Radar - you are transmitting
• No indication that you are RDFed - As most people know receivers actually broadcast radio noise, so by using a receiver you are detectable.
• No use of RDF itself for the same reason
• No data link sharing so you only get on the Minimap what you, alone, see. The reason is again the radio noise of transmitting and receiving this data.

Otherwise you are broadcasting and therefore detectable. That would then make "Radio Silence" a skill to think about!

 

To answer the original question. RDF is a genuine technique used on ships, adds to situational awareness, not diminishes it, and to use it costs skill points that could perhaps be used elsewhere.

What skill does it "Remove" - it ONLY indicates the direction, not the speed, not the distance... This does not remove concealment.

It absolutely needs to stay.

[Mr_Snoww]

33 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

What has?

RPF

[loppantorkel]

6 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

RPF

Many discussions can be had about RL. @Procrastes made a poll about removing it. This is if RL has been good for the game + some additional ones.

[DFens_666]

47 minutes ago, SirAmra said:

Was and still is against it. I rly don't see the point of having such a skill that "removes" skill in a game.

Good players can abuse the hell out of the skill, while the tomatoes have no clue with or without it.

When this "skill" got released I posted a picture in WG patch thread with picture of me blindtorping an enemy DD heading for same cap as me on the RPF location.

The ability to sneak up on someone is removed when RPF is in the battle, and last man left alive and might run to safety and win on points.....RPF shows the way.

I don't use it, I take pride in my "skills" or lack of..... 

But just to make it interessting, make radio silence a 2 point skill, but keep RPF on 4 points. Make it cheaper to counter it for DDs.

 

I fail to see the logic in here:

Bad players cant use the info RPF is giving them because they are bad. And good players get lots of information which they can use because they are good. Isnt that skillful use then? So it adds more skill to the game, its not removing it.

And the last part it gets even worse imo:

So you want to add another skill, which would confuse bad players beyond everything (they dont know that something else is near DESPITE RPF telling them the closest position of a ship). And skills/consumables that have a sole purpose to counter another skill/consumable are imo totaly retarded. Thats like DD players suggesting we need a Radar jammer to block radar

 

Just yesterday i had 2 guys RPF pointing towards the CV, which was last ship alive. And I couldnt catch it in time, because he was running away from me constantly dropping bombs ofc. So RPF usage against last target = not always useful (well they were losing anyway so...) If you can catch a DD with another ship because of RPF, then its still on the DD since he could oustpot you.

[SirAmra]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I fail to see the logic in here:

Bad players cant use RPF because they are bad. And good players get lots of information which they can use because they are good. Isnt that skillful use then? So it adds more skill to the game, its not removing it.

And the last part it gets even worse imo:

So you want to add another skill, which would confuse bad players beyond everything (they dont know that something else is near DESPITE RPF telling them the closest position of a ship). And skills/consumables that have a sole purpose to counter another skill/consumable are imo totaly retarded. Thats like DD players suggesting we need a Radar jammer to block radar

 

Just yesterday i had 2 guys RPF pointing towards the CV, which was last ship alive. And I couldnt catch it in time, because he was running away from me constantly dropping bombs ofc. So RPF usage against last target = not always useful (well they were losing anyway so...) If you can catch a DD with another ship because of RPF, then its still on the DD since he could oustpot you.

No, I said bad players don't know how to use it. I never said they couldn't use it.

And what's the problem of having a skill which u can CHOOSE to use to counter the skill some CHOOSE to use?

I choose to use my points elsewhere.