How is Conqueror's accuracy compared to Lion?

[elblancogringo]

Hello guys

I am slowly grinding my way up to the top of the RN BB line, and I started to play with the Lion.

I really didn't appreciate the Monarch, and Lion is just absolutely terrible when it comes to accuracy.

I mean, this is extremely frustrating, and I found even german battleships more accurate. I like when ships reward good aim but with Lion it's just a joke, a shotgun.

Is conq better when it comes to accuracy? What are their sigma values?

Because if it's as bad as Lion's I'm not sure I should spend more time finishing the line.

Thanks, and have fun.

 

[NothingButTheRain]

At first glance, accuracy with HE at least seems similar. But it's got 12 guns instead of 9 and longer range which make Conq a more effective ship.

I haven't played Lion ina  long while now tho, but Conq is kinda simply a better Lion.

[MRGTB]

1 hour ago, elblancogringo said:

I mean, this is extremely frustrating, and I found even german battleships more accurate. I like when ships reward good aim but with Lion it's just a joke, a shotgun.

It is pretty terrible, it certainly makes the ship a choir to use because of it. I found same playing it not long ago, and even with the module used to improve dispersion. That doesn't help much with shots still spread out wild all over the place. I was thinking also of grinding the BB line to T10, but couldn't bare keep putting up with the Lion and its horrible shot dispersion playing it.

 

For me it defeats the whole object of the Lion having strong guns once you get that second gun barrel, when you're lucky to land two shot on target out a full volley

 

Somebody else in another thread said that the Conq is not much better than Lion. Which did also put me off.

[El2aZeR]

Conq accuracy feels okayish because flinging 12 shells at a target usually means at least one or two are going to hit.

Usually.

[Bics93]

Accuracy is the same on the 419mm: same dispersion and 1.8sigma, but you have 3 more guns on Conqueror compared to Lion.

 

457mm have 2.0 sigma instead. 

[MRGTB]

Yeah, the Conq would feel better I guess because it has 12 shots and not 9 like the Lion, so better chance more will hit. They should think about increasing the accuracy of the Lion with a buff I think. Seems funny when a Mushi doesn't seem that bad, and does far more damage per volley than a Lion does.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

The day before yesterday I was set on fire without getting actually hit by shells from a Conqkek, so no worries about the dispersion...
 

[beercrazy]

conq just "feels" better due to the extra guns but in reality is about the same

what does help is the great heal and epic concealment that allow you to get closer and unleash the fire power at targets that are closer so your going to hit more

though the fire chance is crazy funny when your splatting ships with HE don't forget the AP can be devastating due to people think conq fire HE only and will show their broadside

 

its certainly worth the grind and though I didn't like the lion much the conq Is probably the most fun British ship after the minotaur

[Blixies]

47 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

conq just "feels" better due to the extra guns but in reality is about the same

Well said, 100% true.

[fallenkezef]

With conq I fire turrets individualy, moving aim slightly with each turret, tends to reward better than my old system of blasting off all at once.

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

42 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

With conq I fire turrets individualy, moving aim slightly with each turret, tends to reward better than my old system of blasting off all at once.

Good trick, I do that in most ships. In Hood front/rear separate. Enough to devstrike cruisers.

[gustywinds]

2 hours ago, beercrazy said:

the conq Is probably the most fun British ship after the minotaur

 

I find Conq very frustrating. You can camp and HE spam but that is very boring. If you close a bit and use AP the results are very variable. I annihilated a Zao  with one salvo ones but otherwise too many misses and overpens.

And its so damn big...

[SgtTincan]

Conq, 457s,reload mod, tank built and within 10 to 15 km . you just have to time your repair cycles propperly

[elblancogringo]

44 minutes ago, SgtTincan said:

Conq, 457s,reload mod, tank built and within 10 to 15 km . you just have to time your repair cycles propperly

Are the 457mm guns really worth using? I thought no one was using them.

[Tyrendian89]

16 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

Are the 457mm guns really worth using? I thought no one was using them.

worth using? no, they dont give any worthwhile advantage to balance out their massive downsides.

Usable? yeah why not, you're still a BB, it's not like that class was particularly hard to play and nuke cruisers with...

[wilkatis_LV]

A common trait of RN BBs that for some reason everyone loves ignoring:

 

AP is amazing and accuracy is between decent and pretty nice up to 2/3 of your range.

Both of those become useless in the last 1/3

 

So, if we compare Lion and Conq:

• Lion
  • Range 20.7km
  • Accurate (and with great AP) up to about 13.5...14km
  • Too much effort to bother at 14+km
• Conq
  • Range 24.3km
  • Accurate (and with great AP) up to about 16...17km
  • Too much effort to bother at 17+km

If you'll try to snipe with those ships expect nothing but lots and lots of misses. Use their concealment to stay at ranges you prefer fighting in gaining the advantage over your enemies, unless you have no other choice.

[FukushuNL]

I hate the Brittish BB dispersion. I was on the fence about Roma because people said it's dispersion was crap, but I got no problem in that ship to hit stuff. In the Monarch and Lion though, if you target the enemy, it hits everything but the enemy. 

 

Word for those that face a RN BB, never get anywhere near a ship that is targeted by the RN BB as it will prolly hit you instead xD.

[elblancogringo]

1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

A common trait of RN BBs that for some reason everyone loves ignoring:

 

AP is amazing and accuracy is between decent and pretty nice up to 2/3 of your range.

Both of those become useless in the last 1/3

 

So, if we compare Lion and Conq:

• Lion
  • Range 20.7km
  • Accurate (and with great AP) up to about 13.5...14km
  • Too much effort to bother at 14+km
• Conq
  • Range 24.3km
  • Accurate (and with great AP) up to about 16...17km
  • Too much effort to bother at 17+km

If you'll try to snipe with those ships expect nothing but lots and lots of misses. Use their concealment to stay at ranges you prefer fighting in gaining the advantage over your enemies, unless you have no other choice.

I understand, but I'm not the sniper type. And my last Lion games tell me that even at 13 kms dispersion is awful. Under 10 kms yeah ok. But your rule of 2/3rd of range seems too high...

[wilkatis_LV]

12 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

I understand, but I'm not the sniper type. And my last Lion games tell me that even at 13 kms dispersion is awful. Under 10 kms yeah ok. But your rule of 2/3rd of range seems too high...

Any BB at any range can troll you. Montana's bloody accurate, but if I had to count the times I have missed a salvo on a broadside CA / BB bcuz of RNG at ranges between 5 and 12km... don't even get me started

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Any BB at any range can troll you. Montana's bloody accurate, but if I had to count the times I have missed a salvo on a broadside CA / BB bcuz of RNG at ranges between 5 and 12km... don't even get me started

Man I miss broadside DDs at 5km in the Lion. Sometimes it is just best to ram them. 

[wilkatis_LV]

29 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Man I miss broadside DDs at 5km in the Lion. Sometimes it is just best to ram them. 

DD is a really really small target, and due to them generally being so low the cast practically no "shadow" for your shells.

 

Compare that to how massive BBs dispersion are (lets say - about 200m wide at 5-ish km, something like a km in length as a very simple approximation) and it's no wonder you splash all around them even at point blank.

Gearing's the one I usually use for a size reference as it's a well known one, and in game it's sizes are 238m length, 24.9m beam.

If we put both of those as ellipses the area comparison comes out as 1 dispersion area for nearly 34 Gearing areas

 

That's just "target area" vs "target size"

 

And then add in maneuvering throwing off your aimpont... Yeah

TL;DR is - when in a BB shooting at a DD is always purely a dice roll. No amount of accurate aiming will truly help

[FukushuNL]

7 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

DD is a really really small target, and due to them generally being so low the cast practically no "shadow" for your shells.

 

Compare that to how massive BBs dispersion are (lets say - about 200m wide at 5-ish km, something like a km in length as a very simple approximation) and it's no wonder you splash all around them even at point blank.

Gearing's the one I usually use for a size reference as it's a well known one, and in game it's sizes are 238m length, 24.9m beam.

If we put both of those as ellipses the area comparison comes out as 1 dispersion area for nearly 34 Gearing areas

 

That's just "target area" vs "target size"

 

And then add in maneuvering throwing off your aimpont... Yeah

TL;DR is - when in a BB shooting at a DD is always purely a dice roll. No amount of accurate aiming will truly help

You are partly correct. Because of the nonexisiting arc on 5 km, the dispersion is mostly wide than long. In an Iowa though, missing the DD is an exception on the rule. In Lion, it's as if the ship is missing on purpose.

[wilkatis_LV]

2 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

Because of the nonexisiting arc on 5 km, the dispersion is mostly wide than long.

Exactly the opposite

 

At close ranges your width (H.disp) will be small, but the length (V.disp.) will be the one covering a massive are

 

H.disp. (at least the part that's listed, to the best of our knowledge - the area where 50+% of your shells will fall) is very easy to track as it scales linearly. For Conq that would be:

Range[km] * 10 + 60 = Dispersion[m]

From that you can see that your listed H.disp. at close ranges would be:

1km - 70m

2km - 80m

3km - 90m

4km - 100m

5km - 110m

6km - 120m

7km - 130m

8km - 140m

And so on and on

And regardless of range you're looking at, V.disp. is always larger than H.disp.

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

12 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

DD is a really really small target, and due to them generally being so low the cast practically no "shadow" for your shells.

 

Compare that to how massive BBs dispersion are (lets say - about 200m wide at 5-ish km, something like a km in length as a very simple approximation) and it's no wonder you splash all around them even at point blank.

Gearing's the one I usually use for a size reference as it's a well known one, and in game it's sizes are 238m length, 24.9m beam.

If we put both of those as ellipses the area comparison comes out as 1 dispersion area for nearly 34 Gearing areas

 

That's just "target area" vs "target size"

 

And then add in maneuvering throwing off your aimpont... Yeah

TL;DR is - when in a BB shooting at a DD is always purely a dice roll. No amount of accurate aiming will truly help

 Very nice, and I know it works like that, but the thing is, in a New Mex or just about anything else, no problem.

 I shot a DD to bits with the New York when it missed the torps, at 5 km. Lion is just a mega-trollboat, I think.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

On 3/21/2019 at 10:51 PM, elblancogringo said:

I really didn't appreciate the Monarch, and Lion is just absolutely terrible when it comes to accuracy.

 

Monarch is easily the worst tier 8 BB in the game.

Lion is meh (i freeXP'ed most of the grind since i needed Conq for tier X ranked and boy it was worth the grind).

Conq has 3 more guns which makes a appreciable difference. Hitting cruisers and BBs for 10k HE volleys and 2+ fires every 30s is so hilarious it never gets old. 

 

I love my conq an absolutely recommend keep grinding.

 

Also are you playing those things as they are supposed to be played?

20 km sniping is not their thing.

RN ships have 32 mm cardboard plating with zombie heals and good concealment.

They are supposed to weave in and out of combat in pattern, shoot, tank and then disengage, heal up / wait for cd's and reengage.

10-15 km is about their preferred range, little more distance early, late game little closer.

AP is viable < 10 km. Not reliable from further out.