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RamboCras

Good CV players, CV OP?

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Hi,

 

I just had a game in my Grozovoi vs a Midway. Normally my Grozovoi shreds planes like it was an AA spec'd Montana before the terrible 0.8.0 upgrade.

 

The CV spots me right in the beginning and I turn into him to make his aim time as short as possible and be a target as short as possible and he bombs off 15k health in his first run (2/3 of my total health), that leaves me 9k health. I use a heal and  I turn on my AA consumable and with him staying in AA range he does 2 more runs. The second he mostly misses ( 1-2-k) and the 3rd run finishes me off. What's more, I didn't shoot down a single plane, I only did 9860k plane damage.

 

Is this normal? Is a CV supposed to be able to kill a DD with Bombs? Besides being spotted all the time, the CV is now able to finish me off within 2 min of the start if he sees me? Should I as a result now stay with AA cover as a DD and not play in front of the fleet to spot for torps? Not close enough to the enemy to torp?

 

Is AA that has been able to kill 40 planes in a game due to a skillful flak avoiding CV player useless?

 

What happened to this game? Has wargaming made the CV now playable for the pre 0.8.0 bad CV player with the effect that the good CV player makes his CV OP? Of course, the only solution is to nerv it, or make AA stronger and than the bad CV players start crying again.... where is this going to end?

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[PARAZ]
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1 minute ago, RamboCras said:

Is this normal? Is a CV supposed to be able to kill a DD with Bombs?

 

Yes. DD AA has practically been eliminated even for the Grozo. Literally the only time you'll be able to do something is if the enemy CV is low tier and even then you'll probably trade an unfavorable amount of HP assuming the CV is sufficiently skilled.

 

1 minute ago, RamboCras said:

Has wargaming made the CV now playable for the pre 0.8.0 bad CV player with the effect that the good CV player makes his CV OP?

 

No. If anything bad CV players fail even harder than they did before.

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[BGBRD]
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4 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Of course, the only solution is to nerv it, or make AA stronger and than the bad CV players start crying again.... 

... is it?

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

Yes. DD AA has practically been eliminated even for the Grozo. Literally the only time you'll be able to do something is if the enemy CV is low tier and even then you'll probably trade an unfavorable amount of HP assuming the CV is sufficiently skilled.

I would disagree on this one... Grozo if properly build and played can withstand CV attacks... not forever, but for long enough...

and also El2aZeR, don't forget that the things you're able to do, the other 98% of the CV player base cannot and 80% of them (us* :cap_book:) never will.

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[JR-IT]
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nope they made potatoes even more useless and good player even more powerful.

 

remember however that El2aZeR is on a league of his own about cvs ( nerf El2aZeR,:Smile_trollface:)

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1 hour ago, RamboCras said:

The CV spots me right in the beginning and I turn into him to make his aim time as short as possible and be a target as short as possible and he bombs off 15k health in his first run (2/3 of my total health) ...

Well, there was your primary mistake. If he used DBs you don't want to turn into him because that gives him maximum target area within his crosshairs. Against DBs you want to them to approach you from a 90° angle which gives him the least target area.

 

And at the start of a game you don't want to rush ahead anymore (exactly because CV can and will target lone DDs). Take it slow at first to make sure that any CV who wants to drop you also has to content with someone else's AA from your team or that you can simply fall back to friendly AA in the first place if the CV looks persistent.

 

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[GWDYS]
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Iam not good like El2aZeR but CVs feels fine to me (t8 cv atleast) even if i cant kill DDs in first 2 mins.

 

Having fun so far even in t10 games, my damage is bad in t10 but i can always help with spotting atleast 

 

They could always buff them  :Smile_trollface:

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[AAO]
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2 hours ago, RamboCras said:

Normally my Grozovoi shreds planes like it was an AA spec'd Montana before the terrible 0.8.0 upgrade.

don't compare any class to bb master race please.

 

BBs specced for AA combined with a fighter shreds planes - while your grozovoi even with AA spec just carries a little sign that says "cv food"

 

(that is, if you go off alone - groz does have significant value staying with other ships. Not saying that is a playstyle that is fun though)

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7 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Against DBs you want to them to approach you from a 90° angle which gives him the least target area.

 

Unless he boosts and holds his drop until the last millisecond.

Then you're giving him the max target area.

 

Doomed if you do, doomed if you don't.

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Unless he boosts and holds his drop until the last millisecond.

Then you're giving him the max target area.

 

Doomed if you do, doomed if you don't.

Ah well, that would only account for the low single digit percentages of all CV players I'd presume. The remaining vast majority of CV players wouldn't know the trick. I didn't know the trick until you posted it yesterday and I like to believe I'm above average in CVs.

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4 hours ago, RamboCras said:

The CV spots me right in the beginning and I turn into him to make his aim time as short as possible and be a target as short as possible and he bombs off 15k health in his first run (2/3 of my total health), that leaves me 9k health. I use a heal and  I turn on my AA consumable and with him staying in AA range he does 2 more runs. The second he mostly misses ( 1-2-k) and the 3rd run finishes me off. What's more, I didn't shoot down a single plane, I only did 9860k plane damage.

Grozovoi's AA when running def. AA is really scary, though. My guess would be: the first bombing run destroyed your AA mounts. Grozovoi's problem is that the AA doesn't come from main batteries that can't be destroyed and a single HE bomb run that lands a lot of hits... probably leaves you with almost no AA.

 

Now, another issue - your behavior against USN DBs wasn't correct. DBs don't need much place to drop (this is why USN HE DBs have that BS level of effectiveness against DDs compared to supposedly anti-DD weapon that are the rockets). Running towards the rockets might save you - running towards DBs makes little difference... while also setting you up for bow-to-stern bombing drop. Had you turned sideways instead, it would be much harder to land many bombs on you. Also, when facing a USN CV the main threat are the DBs. If attacked by IJN CV, then you should save AA for the rockets (torps are hard to land and don't destroy AA, bombs can only overpen you) but against USN there's no use hoarding the charges when DBs are coming for you. You might be in a pinch whether to use def. AA against rockets but if it's the DBs that are coming first and they are coming after you, there's point in wavering.

 

And, of course, it pays to use sector reinforcement right - even without manual AA the sector switches reasonably fast and the ratio of 150:50 makes a difference.

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I saw a game today where a friendly AKAZUKI shot down 47 planes.... 47!!!

 

Even for a AA cruisers that is impressive!

 

(I have had those games in my Groz also, not as much but multiple times 30+ plane kills)

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[GURKA]
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I don't think, that a good CV player is much more OP than a good non-CV player.

 

1KagavsDD.thumb.jpg.abffc4e2ac92247a885f0de100aa65f9.jpg

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28 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

I saw a game today where a friendly AKAZUKI shot down 47 planes.... 47!!!

 

Meanwhile I killed a full AA Kitakaze.

With my Enterprise.

 

DD AA is only good if the enemy CV is dumb enough to fly through flak. And a lot of them are.

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ZyqJjqr.png

 

DD AA clearly too strong pls nerf.

:Smile_trollface:

 

(Seriously though, how do you even?)

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Not a good CV layer by any stretch of the imagination but I am guessing the American CV's are the most OP,  certainly the Brits are not, and they are the only ones I have due to the carpet bombing mechanic

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3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meanwhile I killed a full AA Kitakaze.

With my Enterprise.

 

DD AA is only good if the enemy CV is dumb enough to fly through flak. And a lot of them are.

Do you have any other option  than to fly through it, where ever you go near the enemy there is always flak.

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54 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Do you have any other option  than to fly through it, where ever you go near the enemy there is always flak.

 

Just spoof it. AA always spawns directly in front of you, so just don't go directly to your target until you're ready to attack.

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13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Just spoof it. AA always spawns directly in front of you, so just don't go directly to your target until you're ready to attack.

Not always in front, also in the path. When you turn, the aa spawns also in the turning circle. Had this too often

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On 3/19/2019 at 12:38 PM, Aotearas said:

Ah well, that would only account for the low single digit percentages of all CV players I'd presume. The remaining vast majority of CV players wouldn't know the trick. I didn't know the trick until you posted it yesterday and I like to believe I'm above average in CVs.

SOmething i did frequently in my ranger after like 50 games once i found out that dropping the bombs at the last sec basically granted a kill or at least a lot of damage on a dd.

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3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Not always in front, also in the path. When you turn, the aa spawns also in the turning circle. Had this too often

 

Aircraft speed affects the "wideness" of the flak burst spread. Go slower and it gets narrower. Go faster and it gets wider. This way you can force gaps to the burst spreads that you can use.

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5 hours ago, Altsak said:

 

Aircraft speed affects the "wideness" of the flak burst spread. Go slower and it gets narrower. Go faster and it gets wider. This way you can force gaps to the burst spreads that you can use.

No idea, why you're quoting me, but the widness means the area of distances, where the aa can occur. ^^

 

 

wideness.thumb.png.b7a79acd8abce1e7eda13c2fe438aef0.png

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9 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Not always in front, also in the path. When you turn, the aa spawns also in the turning circle. Had this too often

 

Ah, yeah. Path is what I meant.

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6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Ah, yeah. Path is what I meant.

Unless you happen to time your acceleration/braking so good that the AA spawns just inside your planes :cap_haloween:Fun and engaging gameplay :Smile_trollface:

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[DGH-W]
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I heard Notser say he used the brake so the AA would dissipate and do no damage.

 

But what I read here is, the faster you fly, the wider the flag. So, zig zag to the target because the flak is always shot in your path?

 

And what can you do when you are in bomb-torp-rocket run range? Only braking and as little manoeuvre as possible since the aiming rectangle gets bigger otherwise?

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