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El2aZeR

Some more CV stuff

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Came for CVs, learned a few new juicy bits about Enterprise...

 

Stayed and left a like for YURI

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Ah, Red Alert 2... The good old golden classic... :cap_yes:

I guess these are exploits. A regrettable miscalculation on WG part.

Now I also know for sure a few tricks to extend planes's survivability, as well as to keep some things in mind when engaging them... - A question now, though, how long will these tricks going to stay relevant..?

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thank you and a +1 for you

couple of tips I didn't know that hopefully will help me make the cv haters cry

 

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JPN AP DB have a wierd mechanic at least at T6 , once you get under 1 second drop time the sight leaps forward, however when that happends that is the moment to release the bombs, that way I can get 2x Citadels hits and reduce Overpen quite drastically. It works well on DDs too, you can almost 1 shot them since you don't ever Overpen , however you don't hit them with two Bombs cause they are to thin.

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

giphy.gif

 

Note that I'm unsure if these are actually exploits or working as intended. I'll leave that for you to decide.

 

The first one is very simple. It is the so called "DB exploit" that allows much better accuracy by waiting on your drop as long as possible while boosting. I'm very certain that this isn't a bug but has to do with how DBs are designed. For those that do not know, the DB reticle does not represent the actual dispersion of your bombs. The actual dispersion of bombs is a cone projected from the aircraft itself independent of your reticle. While at the end stages of a boosted dive the bomber starts to pull up, meaning that your bombs will only be able to hit in roughly the forward half of your reticle. In addition to that because bombers approach at an angle you'll get a very high potential target area if you approach from the side.

To illustrate this, glorious paint skills:

  Hide contents

6CM4TLb.png

 

Not exactly accurate, but should get the point across.

 

This is useful for AP bombs as well as it allows you to attack the belt armor of cruisers. IJN AP DBs are nowhere near as reliable though, but it can help in a pinch. Also keep in mind that aircraft speed affects penetration power of AP bombs. Against thinner targets it may be preferable to slow down instead.

Quick demonstration:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Next in line, lets talk about our favorite plane type (:Smile_trollface:), rockets! Anyone remember when I said Enterprise has the best RFs in the game? Well...

Simply put, Enterprise doesn't suffer any penalty to maneuverability and her reticle will still narrow down (albeit slowly) when maneuvering while preparing an attack. So unless you miscalculate your attack run completely the enemy DD has no chance to escape damage barring some serious divine intervention making gaps appear in E's exceptional rocket dispersion.

  Hide contents

QI6vmCk.gif

 

Seriously, these rockets do some nasty, nasty things to stuff they can pen.

 

mhIiWbA.png

 

This is nowhere near the maximum damage I've seen btw and even if you make yourself as small a target as possible hits that deal 3k damage aren't uncommon. And Enterprise has 4 attack runs. Do the math.

 

Wanna know what else doesn't give a :etc_swear: about maneuvering tho?

Her DBs.

  Hide contents

5qQETyN.gif

 

You can already start turning while preparing the attack btw.

On normal DBs maneuvering will only stop the reticle from narrowing down. It will NOT make it bigger.

 

Next up, I'm not sure how many people realize this but all ships actually have a zone right above them where AA won't fire. This is shown in the AA range where the minimum range is 0.1km, aka within that you won't take damage. Lone cruisers actually become highly desirable targets for DBs if you can get close.

On some ships this is way larger than others. Republique has an entire 1km around it where AA simply stops firing.

Naturally this means you can bail inside that zone as well without taking any casualties.

 

And finally, remember that your planes are completely immune to damage shortly after both initiating and finishing an attack? Turns out this immunity time extends to bailing out. Doesn't stop there though, planes are artificially accelerated away from their target when finishing up an attack. This is because during testing aircraft could almost immediately turn around and reengage which made DBs especially powerful. But by bailing immediately you can use that speed to make planes reach their immunity altitude faster especially if you use boost, basically replicating the F spam exploit (although it isn't nearly as effective since AA power has dramatically increased since then).

  Hide contents

O4Bwgiz.gif

 

Planes reaching safe altitude is a bit hard to see, but you can see that one squad is significantly faster on the return. That is the big squad, not the smaller attack wing.

 

Note that the immunity altitude is an altitude, not time. You can also use higher islands to reach it pretty much instantly. The middle islands on two brothers would be an extreme example of this, but pretty much all but the lowest islands will at least help you reach immunity altitude faster.

  Hide contents

lapXHBs.gif

 

Planes immediately return to the CV without climbing, meaning safe altitude has been reached.

 

Alright, that's it for now.

Praised be the CV rework.

I hate you right now.

 

Go back to China :cap_rambo:

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29 minutes ago, sgtmarple said:

JPN AP DB have a wierd mechanic at least at T6 , once you get under 1 second drop time the sight leaps forward, however when that happends that is the moment to release the bombs, that way I can get 2x Citadels hits and reduce Overpen quite drastically. It works well on DDs too, you can almost 1 shot them since you don't ever Overpen , however you don't hit them with two Bombs cause they are to thin.

IJN AP crosshair behavior is interesting at times, but kinda baffles me why go for side pens, when late drop reduces overpen chances massively and enables to shrek cruisers just fine, unless you do like <0.5s drops, where you actually risk ricocheting off the deck?

 

8 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I hate you right now.

 

Go back to China :cap_rambo:

Rework train has no brakes and never intended to have them to be honest

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

giphy.gif

 

Note that I'm unsure if these are actually exploits or working as intended. I'll leave that for you to decide.

 

The first one is very simple. It is the so called "DB exploit" that allows much better accuracy by waiting on your drop as long as possible while boosting. I'm very certain that this isn't a bug but has to do with how DBs are designed. For those that do not know, the DB reticle does not represent the actual dispersion of your bombs. The actual dispersion of bombs is a cone projected from the aircraft itself independent of your reticle. While at the end stages of a boosted dive the bomber starts to pull up, meaning that your bombs will only be able to hit in roughly the forward half of your reticle. In addition to that because bombers approach at an angle you'll get a very high potential target area if you approach from the side.

To illustrate this, glorious paint skills:

  Reveal hidden contents

6CM4TLb.png

 

Not exactly accurate, but should get the point across.

 

This is useful for AP bombs as well as it allows you to attack the belt armor of cruisers. IJN AP DBs are nowhere near as reliable though, but it can help in a pinch. Also keep in mind that aircraft speed affects penetration power of AP bombs. Against thinner targets it may be preferable to slow down instead.

Quick demonstration:

  Hide contents

 

 

Next in line, lets talk about our favorite plane type (:Smile_trollface:), rockets! Anyone remember when I said Enterprise has the best RFs in the game? Well...

Simply put, Enterprise doesn't suffer any penalty to maneuverability and her reticle will still narrow down (albeit slowly) when maneuvering while preparing an attack. So unless you miscalculate your attack run completely the enemy DD has no chance to escape damage barring some serious divine intervention making gaps appear in E's exceptional rocket dispersion.

  Reveal hidden contents

QI6vmCk.gif

 

Seriously, these rockets do some nasty, nasty things to stuff they can pen.

 

mhIiWbA.png

 

This is nowhere near the maximum damage I've seen btw and even if you make yourself as small a target as possible hits that deal 3k damage aren't uncommon. And Enterprise has 4 attack runs. Do the math.

 

Wanna know what else doesn't give a :etc_swear: about maneuvering tho?

Her DBs.

  Hide contents

5qQETyN.gif

 

You can already start turning while preparing the attack btw.

On normal DBs maneuvering will only stop the reticle from narrowing down. It will NOT make it bigger.

 

Next up, I'm not sure how many people realize this but all ships actually have a zone right above them where AA won't fire. This is shown in the AA range where the minimum range is 0.1km, aka within that you won't take damage. Lone cruisers actually become highly desirable targets for DBs if you can get close.

On some ships this is way larger than others. Republique has an entire 1km around it where AA simply stops firing.

Naturally this means you can bail inside that zone as well without taking any casualties.

 

And finally, remember that your planes are completely immune to damage shortly after both initiating and finishing an attack? Turns out this immunity time extends to bailing out. Doesn't stop there though, planes are artificially accelerated away from their target when finishing up an attack. This is because during testing aircraft could almost immediately turn around and reengage which made DBs especially powerful. But by bailing immediately you can use that speed to make planes reach their immunity altitude faster especially if you use boost, basically replicating the F spam exploit (although it isn't nearly as effective since AA power has dramatically increased since then).

  Reveal hidden contents

O4Bwgiz.gif

 

Planes reaching safe altitude is a bit hard to see, but you can see that one squad is significantly faster on the return. That is the big squad, not the smaller attack wing.

 

Note that the immunity altitude is an altitude, not time. You can also use higher islands to reach it pretty much instantly. The middle islands on two brothers would be an extreme example of this, but pretty much all but the lowest islands will at least help you reach immunity altitude faster.

  Reveal hidden contents

lapXHBs.gif

 

Planes immediately return to the CV without climbing, meaning safe altitude has been reached.

 

Alright, that's it for now.

Praised be the CV rework.

 

Minimal AA range always was working as intended tho. And keep in mind "no AA zone" moves with the ship. And out of blue abruptly ending speed boost after attack, especially noticeable on TBs always made me wonder about WG vodka brand working as intended

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Most of this stuff works on T4 and T6 RN CVs as well. I tried, got 40k in a T8 game.

Next game T6 got 5k the team threw soooo hard man it was just ballistic. 

I did one flight, came back, half the team was dead and then they killed my CV. :Smile_teethhappy:

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2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Rework train has no brakes and never intended to have them to be honest

Rework train will only stop once CV shoot plane like boolet and all ships equal, da comrade?

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this sounds awfully like post 0.8.0. are we considering cvs OP again? i mean you all said rts cvs were op, than flying shima craap was OP (ok ill grant that one) and now it seems everything able to shoot, drop and/or kill you is OP... questionable reasoning at best... BBs are OP they can oneshot a cruiser if hes a total idiot and shows broadside, CVs are OP in the same logic if some harugumo guy aligns himself perfectly to a full Midway DB squad. CVs are not OP,top 5% of CV players are OP and will always be

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I'm so glad I kept my Enterprise. I'm starting to play better with her and I have a ton of fun.

Thanks @El2aZeR for that very useful post. And yes, amazing paint skills :)

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I am trying to hit main gun turret roofs. Those have enough armour - even on cruisers - that AP bombs should not so easily overpenetrate, but are not thick enough to bounce or shatter. But the actual magazines you want to hit are next to those turrets in the bottom of the ship so it may be slightly the wrong area to try to hit. But since one often cannot be that accurate it is a good area to aim for i think.

 

For this i always try to approach the ship  from the bow or stern, in lenght. For the UK bombers you need to do that anyway if you want more then 1 bombs to hit. On top of that most heavy AA guns should not be able to fire 0 degrees or 180 degrees of the ship that well as they are usually mounted on the sides or midships of the ship. No idea if that is modelled for long range flak, in each case that won't work for the mid-short range AA aura.

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43 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I am trying to hit main gun turret roofs. Those have enough armour - even on cruisers - that AP bombs should not so easily overpenetrate, but are not thick enough to bounce or shatter. But the actual magazines you want to hit are next to those turrets in the bottom of the ship so it may be slightly the wrong area to try to hit. But since one often cannot be that accurate it is a good area to aim for i think.

 

For this i always try to approach the ship  from the bow or stern, in lenght. For the UK bombers you need to do that anyway if you want more then 1 bombs to hit. On top of that most heavy AA guns should not be able to fire 0 degrees or 180 degrees of the ship that well as they are usually mounted on the sides or midships of the ship. No idea if that is modelled for long range flak, in each case that won't work for the mid-short range AA aura.

With AP bombs I just go for amidship, as machine rooms are usually the biggest and most exposed. Late drops (when crosshair moves forward) usually covers issue of not enough deck armor to arm bombs, though I had cases of bombs arming on superstructure and detonating prematurely (or missing ship in question entirely)

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oh yeah, C&C 2 , tanya is hot!

 

 

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12 hours ago, SexyCroat said:

this sounds awfully like post 0.8.0. are we considering cvs OP again? i mean you all said rts cvs were op, than flying shima craap was OP (ok ill grant that one) and now it seems everything able to shoot, drop and/or kill you is OP... questionable reasoning at best... BBs are OP they can oneshot a cruiser if hes a total idiot and shows broadside, CVs are OP in the same logic if some harugumo guy aligns himself perfectly to a full Midway DB squad. CVs are not OP,top 5% of CV players are OP and will always be

As long as they hear "CV" they scream OP. No matter what. 

CV can spot? OP

CV can drop AP bombs? OP

CV can drop torps and tickle a BB? OP

HE bombs? OP OP OP

Rocket planes? OP as hell

 

Not only are CVs OP, they are being called hackers and being blamed for abusing bugs/features. (like no other class have been doing that.) :Smile_teethhappy:

If you do well in CVs you must clearly abuse bugs. :cap_like:

 

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I think the Fighters - ship based and dropped need a rework... Enemy CV dropped his fighters to guard his DD... got fighters to chase press F and they follow you out... come back no fighter cover. plus even if they win a fighter vs fighter battle they still bail out from the game. they should stay until dead or time is up imho.

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Just now, Tugnut said:

I think the Fighters - ship based and dropped need a rework

 

If anything ship based fighters need harsh nerfing. BBs with a stupid I-win-fighter actually become far more effective AA platforms than cruisers/DDs with DFAA, being neutered only by the exploit. Once the exploit is gone it'll become :etc_swear:ed.

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Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

If anything ship based fighters need harsh nerfing. BBs with a stupid I-win-fighter actually become far more effective AA platforms than cruisers/DDs with DFAA, being neutered only by the exploit. Once the exploit is gone it'll become :etc_swear:ed.

Ditching whole rtrd "launch 3-5 planes from single catapult" and turning fighters more into "panic" debuff like they used to be would IMO be valid option - doesn't kill planes (as much) but reduces damage taken by increasing spread. If anything ships with two catapults could launch two of them for more dakka.

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3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Ditching whole rtrd "launch 3-5 planes from single catapult" and turning fighters more into "panic" debuff like they used to be would IMO be valid option - doesn't kill planes (as much) but reduces damage taken by increasing spread. If anything ships with two catapults could launch two of them for more dakka.

 

Yeah, I can support that.

I'll leave a comment in the suggestion thread. Not sure if they're still paying attention to what I write tho. :Smile_trollface:

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yeah, I can support that.

I'll leave a comment in the suggestion thread. Not sure if they're still paying attention to what I write tho. :Smile_trollface:

You mean the same suggestion I've plonked back in 0.8.0 PTS feedback back in January?:cap_book:

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SOooo your waifu needs several spanks from da nerfbat. Is what im taking from this thread :Smile_trollface:

 

see i am a man of culture :Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface:

 

 

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4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

SOooo your waifu needs several spanks from da nerfbat. Is what im taking from this thread :Smile_trollface:

 

see i am a man of culture :Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface:

 

 

Except WG already stated premium CV balancing is "finished":Smile_trollface:

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3 hours ago, RepSrb said:

oh yeah, C&C 2 , tanya is hot!

Filthy pleb. :v

 

Zofia>Eva>Tanya.

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