Charles Martell

[GulvkluderGuld]

I've gotten to the final 4 lines to grind in this game. Rest is unlocked. I love french BBs,  IJN torp DDs are still very playable, and IJN cruisers with DD dispersion are decent (their slow reload annoys me to no end though).

 

French cruisers on the other hand feels like unmitigated torture to play.

At best they feel like a budget version of soviet cruisers (which i love). French tier 6 was bad, Algerie was worse, and now I've got a (stock) Charles martell.

Honestly I would prefer a Hipper....that one has 50% more hp, better torp angles and better HE pen plus far better armor and rudder shift.

I enjoyed the shchors and chapayev played from 15+ km with spotter plane. With both I could influence the match and burn to potatoes down. Both earned me blue to purple solo stats. Same deal for the Hipper.

CM is nothing at all like that. It has no impact on the match at all. DPM is crap, HE pen is crap, volley alpha is crap due to having only 9 barrels and the firing angles are awful while armor is non-existent.

The worst is the lazy arcs. The shells seem slower than all but USN shells and hitting a DD at anything over 8 km feels impossible.

 

Most games sees me trying to support my teammates from 14-15 km or more (get any closer and the ship just explodes). I try to zig-zag to make use of the back turret. 

I tried to support dds early game and it tends to cost 30-50% hp because the rudder shift is 13 s and getting out often gets me killed. The alternative is hanging back in the lemming train. 

The best I've managed so far is around 80k damage in an entire game (the weekend conditions doesn't do it any favours), something i easily and regularly would hit with a Hipper.

 

How do you guys deal with the CM?

The only way I see to make it work is staying in the back behind the main lemmingtrain and try to steal some low impact damage on random BBs. 

Anything more aggressive equals exploding. 

 

 

[lafeel]

WASD and speed boost.

[loppantorkel]

1 hour ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

How do you guys deal with the CM?

Lots of xp flags and a good camo. I've unlocked Saint-Louis but haven't bought it yet. Still, I didn't free-XP past CM like I did pre-buff Hipper, and I hated the Algerie more than the CM.

[Panocek]

Double rudder, Engine Boost mod for 4.5min of buzzing around and play her like you would play Kebab with 203mm guns

[jss78]

Huh, I've always regarded the Martel as monstrously good. It's my favourite T8 cruiser because it's one where I don't really care at all about getting a T10 game. The enemy BB decks get even bigger, and they still can't hit you very well.

 

I tend to play a lot of the time at 15'ish km, where I can fairly reliably evade incoming shells by observing the enemy ship firing. This does go out of your control somewhat if there are multiple enemies firing. But if you do this well, it's near-impossible for an enemy BB to hit you. I've had them try for minutes and finally give up and pick another target. But if you outweigh the enemy it may be optimal to close in aggressively, also.

 

It's not the easiest ship to play. You need to find those places where you can farm a  ton of damage, have space to WASD-evade fire, and avoid cross fires. Often this means open water at the flanks of the enemy.

 

You should mount the speed boost upgrade to get that monstrous 4:30 min action time for the consumable.

[Armorin]

Charles Martel is the highlight of the line. Okay, before reload booster gimmick. You could kite away to your hearts content. If you didn't kill them before you hit the map border. After that, IMO, the line is squishy crap that is spotted from the moon. Apparently, IFHE Henry IV is a good Moskva/Stalingrad counter. But so is a Midway.

[Linkaex]

I love her, but that goes for most French cruisers. 

 

Kiting is your friend. Delay a flank long enough in the hopes your teammates will actually push on the other side. 

If your on the flank that is pushing, just support your BB and DD's. 

 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I haven’t played it but it always seems near top of the charts for T8 cruisers.

[Armorin]

1 minute ago, gopher31 said:

I haven’t played it but it always seems near top of the charts for T8 cruisers.

 

Best, most enjoyably t8 cruiser. Doesn't care about being up-tiered. Stop there.

[Bear__Necessities]

Kite, flank, speed is key and IFHE.

[lafeel]

3 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Kite, flank, speed is key and IFHE.

Agreed on all but the last. Why IFHE when you already have 203mm guns?

[Armorin]

2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Kite, flank, speed is key and IFHE.

 

Have a break, have a Kit Kat. IFHE not need for Charles Martel. After that, it operates like a tank that cannot tank. The Doaist know how to do better.

[GulvkluderGuld]

25 minutes ago, Linkaex said:

I love her, but that goes for most French cruisers. 

 

Kiting is your friend. Delay a flank long enough in the hopes your teammates will actually push on the other side. 

If your on the flank that is pushing, just support your BB and DD's. 

 

26 minutes ago, Armorin said:

Charles Martel is the highlight of the line. Okay, before reload booster gimmick. .....

 

37 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Huh, I've always regarded the Martel as monstrously good. It's my favourite T8 cruiser because it's one where I don't really care at all about getting a T10 game. The enemy BB decks get even bigger, and they still can't hit you very well.

.....

 

Those of you who like it, how do you deal with lemmingtrains and DDs dying in 2 mins? I have 2 kind of games in CM

 

1. I spawn at the head of the lemmingtrain. Pushing in is no-go due to flimsy armor, so I have to rely on the team. Mostly, nobody pushes and everybody heads to the corner and camps hard. Lose in 5-10 mins.

2. I spawn at the tail end of the lemmingtrain. Nobody to spot for me, so hard to kite when nobody shoots. If i wait for somene to spot me, I get permaspotted by DD and HE spammed to death by invisible cruisers and long-range AP shot by BBs. 

 

What do you do at the stat of random battles?

 

Also where do you shoot BBs? (musashi and tier 9+10 especially).

Even if i HE spam a BB all game, it doesnt go down or take appreciable damage (32+ mm decks i assume). IFHE chapayev and Hipper had no such problems. Hell, an akizuki does more damage these days than CM!

 

I only do the grind because i'm a completionist. The ships feel awful with no exception (i generally dont regard them as much of a threat in BBs either, except if they get crazy good fire rng).

Apart from IFHE Henri IV burning  Stalingrads, those cruisers are outclassed by germans and russians at what they do best imo.

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Agreed on all but the last. Why IFHE when you already have 203mm guns?

Bumps HE pen from 33 to 43mm. I guess if one meets too many NC, Iowas and Montanas (or Fusos/Bayerns for that matter), it *might* matter. IFHEnri is on other hand valid pick, especially if one happens to have De Grasse, which as true CL without IFHE is tad lacking

[lafeel]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Bumps HE pen from 33 to 43mm. I guess if one meets too many NC, Iowas and Montanas (or Fusos/Bayerns for that matter), it *might* matter. IFHEnri is on other hand valid pick, especially if one happens to have De Grasse, which as true CL without IFHE is tad lacking

Doesn't feel like it's worth the four captain's points though. Maybe someone played German cruisers with their free IFHE once too often and can't live without?

[Panocek]

Just now, lafeel said:

Doesn't feel like it's worth the four captain's points though. Maybe someone played German cruisers with their free IFHE once too often and can't live without?

Even then, IFHE won't make up for ze German CA HE, which break 50mm.

 

1 minute ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

Also where do you shoot BBs? (musashi and tier 9+10 especially).

Even if i HE spam a BB all game, it doesnt go down or take appreciable damage (32+ mm decks i assume). IFHE chapayev and Hipper had no such problems. Hell, an akizuki does more damage these days than CM!

non Ger CA and IFHE CL have basically equal HE pen, I guess simplest solution is booting up armor layout and looking up for what you can dent within known penetration

[lafeel]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Even then, IFHE won't make up for ze German CA HE, which break 50mm.

 

non Ger CA and IFHE CL have basically equal HE pen, I guess simplest solution is booting up armor layout and looking up for what you can dent within known penetration

Indeed. And if you have a nice flat side, and 203's, you should just load AP instead.

[Linkaex]

9 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

 

 

Those of you who like it, how do you deal with lemmingtrains and DDs dying in 2 mins? I have 2 kind of games in CM

 

1. I spawn at the head of the lemmingtrain. Pushing in is no-go due to flimsy armor, so I have to rely on the team. Mostly, nobody pushes and everybody heads to the corner and camps hard. Lose in 5-10 mins.

2. I spawn at the tail end of the lemmingtrain. Nobody to spot for me, so hard to kite when nobody shoots. If i wait for somene to spot me, I get permaspotted by DD and HE spammed to death by invisible cruisers and long-range AP shot by BBs. 

 

What do you do at the stat of random battles?

 

Also where do you shoot BBs? (musashi and tier 9+10 especially).

Even if i HE spam a BB all game, it doesnt go down or take appreciable damage (32+ mm decks i assume). IFHE chapayev and Hipper had no such problems. Hell, an akizuki does more damage these days than CM!

That is a problem we all face in all ships across all tiers. 

 

If you spawn on the side or end of the train. My favorite position. Delay the enemy push on your end and just pray your team does well. 

 

If your on  the train side or front. Try to lead the train while using cover from islands. When the train gets rolling seek a BB and stick with it. Most of the reds will focus fire the BB and you can start multiple fires while co targeting reds with supported BB. 

 

Communicate with your team. 

 

Use WASD hack. 

 

Some games are lost regardless, don't punish yourself or the ship to much for that.  

[Bear__Necessities]

35 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Agreed on all but the last. Why IFHE when you already have 203mm guns?

Just one of those thing that when upteird (constantly) felt made it stinger. No scientific proof. I also used demo expert a lot. But IFHE on Henri is a yes.

[lafeel]

2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Just one of those thing that when upteird (constantly) felt made it stinger. No scientific proof. I also used demo expert a lot. But IFHE on Henri is a yes.

Henri yes, but I am pretty sure I have seen reliable spreadsheets showing that IFHE is essentially wasted on 203mm guns.

[wilkatis_LV]

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

French cruisers on the other hand feels like unmitigated torture to play. 

At best they feel like a budget version of soviet cruisers (which i love). French tier 6 was bad, Algerie was worse, and now I've got a (stock) Charles martell.

T5 was great before they nerfed it, can't say how it is now

T6 pretty much shows you how the line will be played, and apart from the amazingly bad turret angles is pretty decent

T7 is amazingly strong, just that maybe not quite as fun as something like Fiji

T8 - Charles - is probably highlight of the line (at least before HIV), just that you need Last Stand on it. Same will be useful on t9 aswell.

T9 is just a straight up worse version of Charles, but with a heal

T10 - HIV - is absolutely worth it

 

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

CM is nothing at all like that. It has no impact on the match at all. DPM is crap, HE pen is crap, volley alpha is crap due to having only 9 barrels and the firing angles are awful while armor is non-existent.

I really have to disagree here

 

CM is played just like any other French CA - long range abusing your ridiculous speed & ability to change it thanks to spood beest. Do "half turns" (1x Q and E) instead of full hard turns, that way your guns will outtraverse your ship & it's harder to aim against your turns.

I never had problems with the DPM, especially due to your rather good fire chance and Reload Booster

HE pen is exactly the same as on other non-german 203mm CAs - 33mm. Since at least 32 is what you want - you're perfectly covered there.

Firing angles - perfectly fine, again - never had any problems that way.

And it's french black hole armour, you don't need huge numbers for your spaced armour to straight up eat shells for 0 dmg taken. Plus if you use your keyboard (or even ju

st go in a straight line with spood beest) it's not like you'll get hit particularly often

 

And don't forget about AP, MN CAs are great with it

 

In fact, MN 203mm shells are very similar to IJN 203mm shells (which happens to be another CA line you haven't played)

 

Also

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I enjoyed the shchors and chapayev played from 15+ km with spotter plane.

Charles already has 16km / 17.6km range, so that should be covered for you

 

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

The worst is the lazy arcs. The shells seem slower than all but USN shells and hitting a DD at anything over 8 km feels impossible.

Hitting a DD in anything past 8km is a tall order. Shells are not completely flat, but neither are they US high. They are quite comfortable to use. Plus those shells are not slow, german 203mm shells barely outpace them. Difference is a fraction of a second at most

 

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

tried to support dds early game and it tends to cost 30-50% hp because the rudder shift is 13 s and getting out often gets me killed.

That simply means you are overextending & playing it wrong. Of course you'll fail in those cases

 

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

How do you guys deal with the CM?

Well, since you ask

 

 

Oh, and no, I didn't have RB. This was played just before that patch, Jingles recorded it just after the patch. I wonder how that replay even worked

---

 

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

I've unlocked Saint-Louis but haven't bought it yet.

Oh, get ready for a  "good one"

Basically - worse torpedo positioning; ship is the same speed, but loses about 1/2 of its speed as soon as you touch your keyboard; armour performs significantly worse; you lose your plane... It's literally a worse CM, just with a heal

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Henri yes, but I am pretty sure I have seen reliable spreadsheets showing that IFHE is essentially wasted on 203mm guns.

Against rather common US hightier battleships IFHE203 is a gain. Same with Alaska deck and upcoming RU battleboats, some of them have 40mm upper hull IIRC

[Armorin]

6 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Henri yes, but I am pretty sure I have seen reliable spreadsheets showing that IFHE is essentially wasted on 203mm guns.

 

Yes, IFHE without built in IFHE is a waste.

But the Charles Martel is this maneuverable beast which spams fire better than a Zao, or better than a MegaZao. Live long enough, and punish those with French AP, and they cry all the way to port.

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

T8 - Charles - is probably highlight of the line (at least before HIV), just that you need Last Stand on it. Same will be useful on t9 aswell.

Rudder mod 3 (in concealment slot) covers ever breaking rudder with -80% repair time.

[lafeel]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Rudder mod 3 (in concealment slot) covers ever breaking rudder with -80% repair time.

At least one person I talked to said to still take last stand even with that installed.