Japanese Carriers are fairly bad or just me?

[Bavi0014]

As of currently then when I have reached Shokaku so far in World Of Warships.. I mostly was also apart of the test for the new Carrier Rework.. and I really felt the unfairness in that of how big the difference was between USS Carriers and IJN Carriers.. American squadrons always reaching their target with over half of the squad still alive and doing a fairly good amount of damage due to the amount of stuff their squadron carries and damage they do.. While Japanese squadrons have the problem of the little amount of health, the small amount of stuff they give to do damage towards ships.. and such.. Always losing under the half the health of the squadron when attacking.. And commonly the whole squadron on an attack.
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American Carriers are much much more stronger than Japanese Carriers in a nutshell and has better damage and influence than their counterpart..
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But while British carriers are coming out soon as well, then it seems they are staying on the side of the Americans.. Also being strong and influential.. And mostly then the players who played Japanese carriers before the rework, never had the chance to either change nation to the American counterpart.. and get the equivalence of what they had..
_____________________________________
I'm mostly just thinking, since the rework promised the balance between each other and more carrier play... Of course then that's true, but Americans and the British are the most active ones.. while the Japanese are the ones which are slowly dying... (Or maybe even quickly).. It feels as if it's not even worth playing Japanese carriers due to the unfairness given and always having a bigger chance of not being influential as carriers are in battles.

[ColonelPete]

Lex seems a bit stronger, but so is Kaga. Saipan seems weakest at the moment.

But CV in general look decent:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190316/eu_week/average_ship.html

[jss78]

Shokaku received significant buffs in the latest hotfix, and doesn't seem weak at all right now. You get LOTS of TB's and they feel quite strong.

 

(Maybe my division mate @asalonen can chime in here. He seems to be doing extremely well in the Shokaku currently. )

[Besserwisser3000]

Yes, Japanese CVs are totally weak.

 

How about you CV potatoes stop your whine postings and instead learn to play?

 

 

[Panocek]

IJN CVs are "weak" when it comes to killing DDs. Otherwise they need some practice with APbombing, who and when you can citadel.

[JohnnyAlphabet]

Haven't got to T8 yet, and in general I'm really not that good at CVs, but tried both Shokaku and Lexington on PTS. Lexington seems to be a bit easier to do damage with, but Shokaku had good TBs and as was mentioned above, once you get the hang of bombers, they can inflict some damage.

I also found that choosing torp speed boost helps, including for hitting DDs.

Haven't had the chance to try the British T8.

 

At T6, I much prefer Ryujo to Furious. 

[asalonen]

2 hours ago, jss78 said:

(Maybe my division mate @asalonen can chime in here. He seems to be doing extremely well in the Shokaku currently. )

 

Since the latest hotfix Shokaku has felt extremely strong, but it's not easy. It plays fundamentally like Ryujo, but you have to somehow learn to deal with much stronger AA.

 

Some pointers:

• Compared to USN carriers, the planes are less versatile, so it's important to learn which one to use against which target.
• The AP bombs can be devastating against cruisers and at least German BB's -- essentially anything that you can drop low on and still penetrate. Against Tirpitz, Friedrich der Grosse -- possibly Kurfürst as well -- you can drop very low and land them all in the citadel. Their AA sucks too. If you need to drop high there's a lot of RNG and it's generally a waste of time.
• Torpedo bombers are the most versatile weapon, and I like to use them unless there's a very juicy target for the AP bombs. Take both Torpedo Bomber Modification 1 and 2. 
• Rockets are still useful against DD's. Many of them haven't learnt to switch the AA off, so you can get multiple passes and wreck them. You can also drop fighters on top of them to keep them spotted. Rockets are also the most reliable hit on any low-health target, especially since the reticle gets really small with the IJN attack planes.
• Use a concealment build: With both Concealment Modification and Concealment Expert your torpedo bombers have 6.1 km detection range, which is lower than the detection range of the strongest AA cruisers. It's a big thing.
• Play close: Shokaku's concealment gets down to 9.8 km and it's fast.

[Beastofwar]

When attacking enemy DD together with a friendly DD or other ship  - they spot/attack the DD and you join in as that DD won't dissapear out of your sight turning unless it uses smoke  -  IJN strike fighters have become very powerfull after last changes.

 

I killed 2 DD's in very rapid succession that way. Just like in the pre-nerf days.

 

When DD not wanna die like that they should go to where the fighter comes out of their turn, they are unable to fire then.  Downside i noticed is with such manouevering you move  right into the guns of enemy cruisers and battleships, and you are spotted....

 

 

[Masa2mune]

I think the Hakuryu could still use a tiny buff, but it's gotten quite decent with the re-buffs and me learning to actually play the thing. Rockets can deal with DDs, although it's going to take time to deal serious damage without Midway's HE bombs if no one is assisting you, so chasing DDs might not always be worth your time. Rockets also work well on things like bigger-than-DD British ships that have exterior armor like paper.

 

The torps and their snail like slowness complete with the marathon distance arming time makes them very difficult to land if the enemy player is making any decent attempts at dodging, especially if they have a hydro on.

On Hakuryu, instead of going for the minimum distance drops, I found it more effective to do 3 long distance drops instead and saturate the waters with fishies. Something will likely land if you make decent predictions. Yes, you read that right, you can do multidrops with torps, but I recommend getting all the HP boosts for the torp bombers you can and if you drop your load before the massive flak wall hits your planes, you can actually survive long enough to do all your 3 drops. Torp bombers are good bread and butter when the AA is too heavy for the other strike craft and there are no lone DDs to hunt at the moment.

 

But as soon as you see anything bigger than a DD isolated from the rest of their AA, it's probably time to switch to your juicy AP bombers. I don't care if you are a Des Moines or Stalingrad or whatever, if you are isolated and not 100% AA build, my AP bombers WILL get through that isolated AA and get that 1-3 citadels per drop and it's going to hurt. AP bombers deal very well with short range AA, so it's very important that you try to use them only on isolated targets, which usually happens more the longer the battle progresses. Even two mediocre AA ships will shred your AP bombers apart because you will remain in the flak range of one of them while striking the other and that's not good. Also do use your speed boost to slow down the second you drop your AP bombs, because otherwise your planes will climb up unnecessarily far away from target into the flak range and you might not be able to pull off multiple passes on AA heavy ships.

[k_szczech]

For me, IJN carriers are very strong if you know what you're doing. Ryujo may just be the most powerful carrier in the game (relatively to it's tier of course). Two days ago I did 119k in a tier 8 battle with it, scoring top of my team. I don't remember my best tier 6 result, but I think it was above 150k. And I'm talking recent game builds.

 

The problem with many carrier players is that they tend to spray their targets  If that's how you do it, then japanese carriers are not for you.

However, if you tend to observe your targets, choose your approach carefully, go for steady aim, narrow spread - then you will find japanese carriers to be really good snipers

 

I find US carriers boring - you click on target and see what RNG comes up with. But with IJN carriers it feels like it's more up to me - if I make every single torpedo, bomb and rocket count, if I don't spray, but aim very carefully - I can get better results than in other carriers. This is why I think that statistics don't really show the true power of japanese carriers.

 

Simply put - if you're good with carriers - you will not regret grinding IJN line.

Or maybe even if you're not good with carriers but enjoy a bit more challenging and rewarding experience - you will not regret it either.

 

 

Midway torpedoes - 35 knots upgradeable to 40 knots via captain skill, 6 torps per drop, 4233 max daage rach, totalling 25k dmg per drop - width of spread is more less a battleship width. Difficult to score more than 4 torps. On cruisers it's typically just 2 torps.

Hakuryu - 50 knots upgradeable to 55 knots via captain skill. 2 torps per drop, 9333 max damage each, totalling 18,6k max dmg per drop - width of spread is more less half a cruiser Easy to score both torps on battleships and often on cruisers.

 

Also, Midway's aiming distance is over 200m longer than Hakuryus giving enemyships more time to angle against our torpedo planes. By the time you get to the drop point they have their rudder fully shifted and turning hard.

[El2aZeR]

Shokaku compares very favorably to Enterprise and is as such overpowered.

IJN CVs are generally superior.

[CptBarney]

I just want to bin ryujo, when i hear supaku is better than ryebread.

 

Although i did 100k twice in tier 8 matches somehow and not just a few tier 8's either, even almost got a kraken on such game (got a kraken top tier and detonated a bayern doe).

 

 

[Latur_Husky]

IJN Is quite good line. Shokaku might feel weak at the beginning, but it's really powerfull CV. Learn Hit & Run tactics and you'll be doing really well on it. 

 

In general IJN planes are made out of paper but, those are only planes in the game that actually pack a punch as every CV should do. 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:11 PM, Bavi0014 said:

As of currently then when I have reached Shokaku so far in World Of Warships.. I mostly was also apart of the test for the new Carrier Rework.. and I really felt the unfairness in that of how big the difference was between USS Carriers and IJN Carriers.. American squadrons always reaching their target with over half of the squad still alive and doing a fairly good amount of damage due to the amount of stuff their squadron carries and damage they do.. While Japanese squadrons have the problem of the little amount of health, the small amount of stuff they give to do damage towards ships.. and such.. Always losing under the half the health of the squadron when attacking.. And commonly the whole squadron on an attack.
-
American Carriers are much much more stronger than Japanese Carriers in a nutshell and has better damage and influence than their counterpart..
-
But while British carriers are coming out soon as well, then it seems they are staying on the side of the Americans.. Also being strong and influential.. And mostly then the players who played Japanese carriers before the rework, never had the chance to either change nation to the American counterpart.. and get the equivalence of what they had..
_____________________________________
I'm mostly just thinking, since the rework promised the balance between each other and more carrier play... Of course then that's true, but Americans and the British are the most active ones.. while the Japanese are the ones which are slowly dying... (Or maybe even quickly).. It feels as if it's not even worth playing Japanese carriers due to the unfairness given and always having a bigger chance of not being influential as carriers are in battles.

Hosho is fun, but that is about the the only one.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

8 hours ago, k_szczech said:

For me, IJN carriers are very strong if you know what you're doing. Ryujo may just be the most powerful carrier in the game (relatively to it's tier of course). Two days ago I did 119k in a tier 8 battle with it, scoring top of my team. I don't remember my best tier 6 result, but I think it was above 150k. And I'm talking recent game builds.

 

The problem with many carrier players is that they tend to spray their targets  If that's how you do it, then japanese carriers are not for you.

However, if you tend to observe your targets, choose your approach carefully, go for steady aim, narrow spread - then you will find japanese carriers to be really good snipers

 

I find US carriers boring - you click on target and see what RNG comes up with. But with IJN carriers it feels like it's more up to me - if I make every single torpedo, bomb and rocket count, if I don't spray, but aim very carefully - I can get better results than in other carriers. This is why I think that statistics don't really show the true power of japanese carriers.

 

Simply put - if you're good with carriers - you will not regret grinding IJN line.

Or maybe even if you're not good with carriers but enjoy a bit more challenging and rewarding experience - you will not regret it either.

 

 

Midway torpedoes - 35 knots upgradeable to 40 knots via captain skill, 6 torps per drop, 4233 max daage rach, totalling 25k dmg per drop - width of spread is more less a battleship width. Difficult to score more than 4 torps. On cruisers it's typically just 2 torps.

Hakuryu - 50 knots upgradeable to 55 knots via captain skill. 2 torps per drop, 9333 max damage each, totalling 18,6k max dmg per drop - width of spread is more less half a cruiser Easy to score both torps on battleships and often on cruisers.

 

Also, Midway's aiming distance is over 200m longer than Hakuryus giving enemyships more time to angle against our torpedo planes. By the time you get to the drop point they have their rudder fully shifted and turning hard.

Thinking of selling all my IJN CV's, apart from the Hosho, but once the nerfbat swings on that, she is gone too, a two torp drop at tier 10 is simply not good enough,it should be four torp drop, like the Kaga,mind you the AA still wipes you out so all is a moot point anyway.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

On 3/16/2019 at 7:22 PM, Beastofwar said:

When attacking enemy DD together with a friendly DD or other ship  - they spot/attack the DD and you join in as that DD won't dissapear out of your sight turning unless it uses smoke  -  IJN strike fighters have become very powerfull after last changes.

 

I killed 2 DD's in very rapid succession that way. Just like in the pre-nerf days.

 

When DD not wanna die like that they should go to where the fighter comes out of their turn, they are unable to fire then.  Downside i noticed is with such manouevering you move  right into the guns of enemy cruisers and battleships, and you are spotted....

 

 

Hey good to see you back in the forums dude.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

On 3/16/2019 at 6:00 PM, cmdr__nik said:

Haven't got to T8 yet, and in general I'm really not that good at CVs, but tried both Shokaku and Lexington on PTS. Lexington seems to be a bit easier to do damage with, but Shokaku had good TBs and as was mentioned above, once you get the hang of bombers, they can inflict some damage.

I also found that choosing torp speed boost helps, including for hitting DDs.

Haven't had the chance to try the British T8.

 

At T6, I much prefer Ryujo to Furious. 

Your not missing anything,most thing British are weak and underpowered, the t 10 atrocious feels like it should be T8

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 10 Stunden, NoobySkooby sagte:

Thinking of selling all my IJN CV's, apart from the Hosho, but once the nerfbat swings on that, she is gone too, a two torp drop at tier 10 is simply not good enough,it should be four torp drop, like the Kaga,mind you the AA still wipes you out so all is a moot point anyway.

Some people upload videos on YouTube so others can learn something:

https://youtu.be/7x9ZutBekak

 

[Panocek]

10 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Thinking of selling all my IJN CV's, apart from the Hosho, but once the nerfbat swings on that, she is gone too, a two torp drop at tier 10 is simply not good enough,it should be four torp drop, like the Kaga,mind you the AA still wipes you out so all is a moot point anyway.

Haku had 4TB drop and it was absolute garbage against anyone with working keyboard and against anything smaller than battleship. and 2TB setup is still the most reliable TB option of all T10 CV due to accuracy and damage per fish and overall speed

[Migantium_Mashum]

I got the KAGA via the recent Tier X SC event... I am only playing her in COOP at the moment for practice.

Perhaps a little more time getting used to IJN CV's may help as you have only 288 battles?

 

@El2aZeR is the best person to ask for help..... He is after-all a merciless hunter with his CVs... I am sure he wouldn't mind answering some questions as almost everyone here is approachable....

 

 

 

Only just notice this post is from March 16th.....

[Hopeless_Guppy]

10 hours ago, Panocek said:

Haku had 4TB drop and it was absolute garbage against anyone with working keyboard and against anything smaller than battleship. and 2TB setup is still the most reliable TB option of all T10 CV due to accuracy and damage per fish and overall speed

Maybe so but I still don't like her

[Hopeless_Guppy]

11 hours ago, Donnerturm said:

Some people upload videos on YouTube so others can learn something:

https://youtu.be/7x9ZutBekak

 

Good on them, (thank you El2aZaR), although some commentary would be awesome on your vids) but slow down, speed up, move left or right, I still walloped by AA, not as it matters much as I am trying my best to improve in Cruisers and sometimes DD's, other than that,  I play BB's, still learning to love the Russian ones

[GulvkluderGuld]

On 9/20/2019 at 7:41 PM, El2aZeR said:

Shokaku compares very favorably to Enterprise and is as such overpowered.

IJN CVs are generally superior.

Did Shokek get buffed? Last i looked, Big E was the top dog.

 

E still has better aiming mechanics for RF and DBs, no? 

[El2aZeR]

Just now, GulvkluderGuld said:

Did Shokek get buffed? Last i looked, Big E was the top dog.

 

Well, technically speaking she got... adjusted I guess? She got her TB squad size increased to 10 but traded a single reserve plane for it. Against high AA ships this is meh, against low AA ships it is pretty good. More of a trade-off than an outright buff/nerf.

Doesn't really change all that much regardless, so I would reckon she was always this powerful.

 

Enterprise is ofc still better but Shokaku gets very close and is as such overpowered.

Could just be a side effect of CVs generally being op after AA got murdered in 0.8.7 tho.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

 

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Well, technically speaking she got... adjusted I guess? She got her TB squad size increased to 10 but traded a single reserve plane for it. Against high AA ships this is meh, against low AA ships it is pretty good. More of a trade-off than an outright buff/nerf.

Doesn't really change all that much regardless, so I would reckon she was always this powerful.

 

Enterprise is ofc still better but Shokaku gets very close and is as such overpowered.

Could just be a side effect of CVs generally being op after AA got murdered in 0.8.7 tho.

The man himself, good vids I must say, watching yours again right now, second time  around.

 

How do you deal with the 'idiots,' calling you an idiot in chat, I turn the chat off because the anti CV hatred just gets in my way when trying to concentrate.