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LemonadeWarriorITA

Does current CV gameplay lack skill aspect?

Skill aspect and CV gameplay  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Does current CV gameplay lack skill aspect?

    • Yes, because
      15
    • No, because...
      34

63 comments in this topic

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I am having some hard time to find any skill aspect in the current carrier gameplay.

RTS carrier (OLD)

With the old carriers your direct opponent was the enemy carrier, because carriers had the power to directly strike other planes. You had to manage your plane reserves and pay continuous attention to the map to prevent strikes, spot and/or finish off ships. 

 

Current carriers
I don't feel the difference between playing a CV in a Coop or Random game. The current CVs feel like the Bastogne game mode, where the fords are now being controlled by players. For me it feels like I have zero interaction with the enemy player, which is normally the fun part of an online game.

It looks really amazing, but it feels pretty empty. 

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Yes and no.

 

Old RTS CV you had a better "read" of the battlefield maybe. You were the Wizard/Enchanter in the back of the group doing Crowd Control and Damage, Now you are the (very small) Firebolt.

 

I do think there is some skill and expierence involved. T4 is kinda the same in Coop and Random, the only difference, your team mates are generally more stupid in randoms.

 

However , once you hit T6 + you should really learn fast which Ships bring dangerous AA, how to avoid ships travelling together. Keeping count of the DDs and their last position, otherwise you might get a nasty suprise later on. Also, while Rockets is pure luck and Torps are kinda meh, DB really need some skill. When that DD needs to be killed fast and he is activily dodging and changing speed you better know what you are doing or you waste your bombs. At least till you have the Lexington or the Midway, HE Bombs are the only way to kill a DD fast, specially when he is closing in on your position.  Same goes for some cruisers. I wished activily avoiding Flak could be a thing when attacking, but well, it isn't really.

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1 hour ago, Zuihou25 said:

It does not.

Most people still aim with A and D

 

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

No

Why no? Unlike the traditional ships there is nothing to manage.
You don't have to manage your planes nor your hp. All you have to do is strike, just like a fort..

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Vor 3 Minuten, sgtmarple sagte:

Yes and no.

 

Old RTS CV you had a better "read" of the battlefield maybe. You were the Wizard/Enchanter in the back of the group doing Crowd Control and Damage, Now you are the (very small) Firebolt.

 

I do think there is some skill and expierence involved. T4 is kinda the same in Coop and Random, the only difference, your team mates are generally more stupid in randoms.

 

However , once you hit T6 + you should really learn fast which Ships bring dangerous AA, how to avoid ships travelling together. Keeping count of the DDs and their last position, otherwise you might get a nasty suprise later on. Also, while Rockets is pure luck and Torps are kinda meh, DB really need some skill. When that DD needs to be killed fast and he is activily dodging and changing speed you better know what you are doing or you waste your bombs. At least till you have the Lexington or the Midway, HE Bombs are the only way to kill a DD fast, specially when he is closing in on your position.  Same goes for some cruisers. I wished activily avoiding Flak could be a thing when attacking, but well, it isn't really.

Actively avoiding flak is a thing actually.

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The AA Bubbles all together yeah,  but with the AA Dot and overlapping Bubbles I found getting out of the Bubbles all together is way more effective than to try to "fool" the flak puffs. You just boost and get the hell out of dodge, then turn arround and plan the 2nd attack. I almost never do a third attack, since I always send at least one flight back to the CV right at the start.

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1 hour ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

where the fords are now

 

1 hour ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

strike, just like a ford..

280px-1925_Ford_Model_T_touring.jpg

 

vs

 

fort

 

300px-Kasematte_Maastricht_2.jpg

 

glad to help ;)

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Vor 1 Minute, sgtmarple sagte:

The AA Bubbles all together yeah,  but with the AA Dot and overlapping Bubbles I found getting out of the Bubbles all together is way more effective than to try to "fool" the flak puffs. You just boost and get the hell out of dodge, then turn arround and plan the 2nd attack.

Zig Zagging while boosting out reduces the losses believe me.

Sometimes you just have to over commit. You find yourself in the AA of 3 shipd after the strike. If you don't Zig Zag the flak will destroy you.

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[NMA]
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I for one love action gameplay of "new" CVs.

I was not a CV main, nor I'm one today, but I find myself playing them more after rework than before.

 

 Now the skill part of it: I'll admit that RTS gameplay was more demanding and challenging. I could never get the hang of it as I felt there was too much to do, too much stuff to pay attention to: Scout enemy movement, spot DDs, take down enemy planes, protect your planes, protect surface ships, protect your ship and on top of that do considerable dmg... with 4 or 5 or 6 squadrons. And a player who could do more inputs was always gonna win over a player, like myself, who couldn't.

Sure, you do all that now, you scout, you protect, you do dmg... but you are doing it with one squadron. It's much easier. It requires less skill but I wouldn't say its brain dead game play. You still need to avoid fighters, AA, manage your plane poll, line up for the strike, etc...

 

So yeah. RTS gameplay required skill, so does action game play but just not as much.

 

 

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Just now, LemonadeWarrior said:

 

Why no? Unlike the traditional ships there is nothing to manage.
You don't have to manage your planes nor your hp. All you have to do is strike, just like a ford..

You have to manage plane reserves just as you had to do before, only the mechanic is different in the sence that there is no finite number of planes with instant squad refill but instead you are now limited by the respawn time and deck spaces, finite number of planes you have at your disposal during a single match is probabbly not that different from before (cant be bothered to calcualte tbh) only thing is that when you potato and lose all planes you will respawn few birds so you have somwthing to so instead just yolo or run to the corner...

 

As for HP oh yes you do, fir once plane is gone you wait a while for a new one and you do crap for your team waiting around so you better dich the run when needed abd usw repair when you can and try to get them back, also hitting manouvering targwts wffectively isnt easy

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6 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

Actively avoiding flak is a thing actually.

It is not like avoiding flak is any different from fighting a bot or a human. 

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Vor 5 Minuten, Zuihou25 sagte:

Zig Zagging while boosting out reduces the losses believe me.

Sometimes you just have to over commit. You find yourself in the AA of 3 shipd after the strike. If you don't Zig Zag the flak will destroy you.

With the mouse or  A and D ? I really haven't noticed much difference when zig zagging. I had more success by using the boost to get out. But ill try zig zag again.

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Vor 4 Minuten, sgtmarple sagte:

 

With the mouse or  A and D ? I really haven't noticed much difference when zig zagging. I had more success by using the boos to get out. But ill try zig zag again.

You of course use boost to zig zag out ;) i tried without zig zagging but notixed increased plane losses is why i stopped,i pan the camera behind the planes while blindly turning them with A and D to see when i left the AA range and instantly press F

 

@LemonadeWarrior

 

You had alot of success in RTS is why you sre probably sad you can't repeat it anymore? I peeked out of curiosity. Just try again, if it's as easy as you say you should top the scoreboards soon enough for sure

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13 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

 

Why no? Unlike the traditional ships there is nothing to manage.
You don't have to manage your planes nor your hp. All you have to do is strike, just like a ford..

  • if you do not manage your planes you end up with incomplete strike groups
  • and if you just strike, you are either farming damage or throwing your planes away, target selection is key
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1 minute ago, Yedwy said:

You have to manage plane reserves just as you had to do before, only the mechanic is different in the sence that there is no finite number of planes with instant squad refill but instead you are now limited by the respawn time and deck spaces, finite number of planes you have at your disposal during a single match is probabbly not that different from before (cant be bothered to calcualte tbh) only thing is that when you potato and lose all planes you will respawn few birds so you have somwthing to so instead just yolo or run to the corner...

 

As for HP oh yes you do, fir once plane is gone you wait a while for a new one and you do crap for your team waiting around so you better dich the run when needed abd usw repair when you can and try to get them back, also hitting manouvering targwts wffectively isnt easy

Exactly no finite number of planes, where the HP of ships is. Yes you wait to regenerate some planes, while for a cruiser you can't push for an entire game after taking a few citadels, or in a DD you lose some serious spotting capability after taking 1 torp. It changes the whole game.

I don't see hitting maneuvering targets as a skill aspect. It isn't any different from Coop. Guess we disagree on that one.

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9 minutes ago, quickr said:

So yeah. RTS gameplay required skill, so does action game play but just not as much.

RTS gameplay was finicky and success depended on mastering manual drop and strafe skills. Action CV gameplay is boring and involves annoying people who can't make you go away. Neither is a positive contribution to the game.

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Since there are people who are doing extremely bad in CVs, there has to be skill involved :Smile-_tongue:

But i think its more like, either you get it, or you dont, so id say its definetely different than RTS CVs. They had much more of a tactical aspect imo, since you couldnt just rush ahead into the enemy fleet because the enemy CV was there and you could have lost your planes to him right away.

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5 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

 

You had alot of success in RTS is why you sre probably sad you can't repeat it anymore? I peeked out of curiosity. Just try again, if it's as easy as you say you should top the scoreboards soon enough for sure

I didn't. RTS carriers were a flaw in my eyes as well, but they stopped working on RTS carriers a few years ago. The current carriers are really boring to play for me, because they lack player vs player combat. I doubt I will ever have serious interest in them.

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Vor 4 Minuten, LemonadeWarrior sagte:

Exactly no finite number of planes, where the HP of ships is. Yes you wait to regenerate some planes, while for a cruiser you can't push for an entire game after taking a few citadels, or in a DD you lose some serious spotting capability after taking 1 torp. It changes the whole game.

I don't see hitting maneuvering targets as a skill aspect. It isn't any different from Coop. Guess we disagree on that one.

Is the reason you are saying all this to make you feel better about your RTS success which is lacking now after you tried a few games in the rework?

 

Man if you are bored ignore them.

Even top heads of the CV community who also think it's boring admit to an even larger skillgap.

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • if you do not manage your planes you end up with incomplete strike groups
  • and if you just strike, you are either farming damage or throwing your planes away, target selection is key

1. I will just wait to regenerate.
2. As someone who enjoys playing the Montana farming damage is fun. Yet it is also fun to take direct damage. It feels really empty in gameplay compared to the other classes.

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old style was just battle cards. you stacked the numbers in your favour and ganked the other player, or, they did it to you first.

usually it came down to who could best time a strafe or best abuse the abort strafe.

that wasnt rts any more than c&c on an apple watch was rts.

 

new rts isnt any different complexity wise, just different choices about who and how to attack or who and how to support.

 

they should have gone with homeworld style formations and used altitude mechanics. that could have made it rts.

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Lots of skill needed to Avoid AA, Strike & still have enough resources available later in the match

Lots of Strategic nous needed to target select, and do a sensible risk/cost benefit for the attack.

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3 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

1. I will just wait to regenerate.
2. As someone who enjoys playing the Montana farming damage is fun. Yet it is also fun to take direct damage. It feels really empty in gameplay compared to the other classes.

  1. then you do less damage and play worse than a skilled player
  2. farming damage is worse than focussed damage on the right ships --> playing worse than a skilled player

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No but CV gameplay was dumbed down compared to RTS.

 

In RTS you needed to control several squadrons at the same time and your CV. According to WG that was too difficult for most of the player base. But.....without skills you fare very poor at the current CV gameplay. The continuous nerfing made sure of that. No connection to the enemy ? Try to hit him under murderous AA cruiser no fly zone FLAK and no fly zone fighter consumables, and have a decent credits score afterward lol. Yes there is skill involved, it's just not contested air supremacy skill and you cannot achieve air domination.

 

You can still attack enemy CV if you are determined.....even with your CV as ship and it's secondary batteries itself ( i do that late game when only enemy CV remain )

 

Never say never when you want air supriority fighters back. WG may come to the conclusion they are needed again.

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