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Blixies

Saipan refund - are we being serious?

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Hello there,
regarding the CV refund period, which is nearing it's end:
How am I supposed to make a reasonable decision on whether or not to keep the ship when the whole CV vs AA is one huge wild west right now?
Especially Saipan who suffers the most from losing planes of all the premium CVs (AFAIK). I can not even respec the captain to test more builds and truly make the right decision.

What do you guys think about this approach, and will you keep your Saipan, if you have it?

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[PMI]
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4 minutes ago, Blixies said:

Hello there,
regarding the CV refund period, which is nearing it's end:
How am I supposed to make a reasonable decision on whether or not to keep the ship when the whola CV vs AA is one huge wild west right now?
Especially Saipan who suffers the most from losing planes of all the premium CVs (AFAIK). I can not even respec the captain to test more builds and truly make the right decision.

What do you guys think about this approach, and will you keep your Saipan, if you have it?

 

They love shooting their own feet, a lot.

 

Was there not to be a second round of cap respecs for testing on live? They truly need to extend both the refund window and free respec window untill the rework is done, but they dont really want to do that, takes some effort and would look good, and we can not have that.

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[THIR]
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2 minutes ago, Juanx said:

Was there not to be a second round of cap respecs for testing on live?

The funny thing is, we will get free respecs once the refund period ends. It's really a joke.

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[FIFO]
[FIFO]
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Sold her.  The lack of any kind of reasonable plane regeneration just kills this CV dead.

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Vor 10 Minuten, Juanx sagte:

 

They love shooting their own feet, a lot.

 

Was there not to be a second round of cap respecs for testing on live? They truly need to extend both the refund window and free respec window untill the rework is done, but they dont really want to do that, takes some effort and would look good, and we can not have that.

The rework is as good as done btw. There won't be much major changes happening.

Noone is crying about specific things anymore. And it feels pretty balanced. They will probably reduce blob aa effectiveness and increase plsne survival for those planes that successfully dropped and are on return path.

They also stated that they are pleased with the premium CV performance after the GZ change.

 

The only changes that might still happen are individual ship buffs/nerfs

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[NWP]
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So the Saipan is considered "all done"? 

Well, is there anyone who likes the way Saipan plays now?
(I'm pretty bad myself, so I blame myself for not being able to utilize this CV yet).

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I see no benefits in selling it. I will wait bit more, and take it for a spin. If it is bad, I will never play it again.

Taking under consideration it is premium, that means if it will be underperforming they will buff it, otherwise they will sell no more of it.

So in a year or five, it can be decent, but hopefully not as OP as it was.

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1 minute ago, Zuihou25 said:

Noone is crying about specific things anymore. And it feels pretty balanced.

LOL, really? Ramming a rocket fighter squad down the middle and spotting the entire enemy team within the first minute is balanced in a game where half the ship classes rely heavily on concealment?

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Gerade eben, Stormhawk_V sagte:

LOL, really? Ramming a rocket fighter squad down the middle and spotting the entire enemy team within the first minute is balanced in a game where half the ship classes rely heavily on concealment?

They already nerfed the air detectability. Are you not paying attention?

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3 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

They already nerfed the air detectability. Are you not paying attention?

As if this made a difference...

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5 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

LOL, really? Ramming a rocket fighter squad down the middle and spotting the entire enemy team within the first minute is balanced in a game where half the ship classes rely heavily on concealment?

 

With the last patch I feel that ship detectability range from air is almost spot on.

 

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Vor 2 Minuten, Stormhawk_V sagte:

As if this made a difference...

How much more should it be nerfed according to you OuO  ?

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[JRM]
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Most likely so that you have a short glimpse of the ship that shot down your planes while they are falling in the water ablaze...

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Just now, Zuihou25 said:

How much more should it be nerfed according to you OuO  ?

Well, a class that can spot anything, anywhere, anytime without putting the ship at risk shouldn't be also a good damage farmer. It breaks the balance. This also works the other way round.

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25 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

The rework is as good as done btw. There won't be much major changes happening.

Noone is crying about specific things anymore. And it feels pretty balanced.

 

giphy.gif

 

To call CVs anywhere near balanced is hilarious. And will continue to be hilarious because the rework is flawed to its core.

And really, no one is crying about specific things? Just take a look at the dozens of threads, people are literally complaining about everything specific one way or another. Spotting, damage, AA, MM rulesets, player skill, low tiers, high tiers, nations, premiums, etc. And that too is an inevitability due to the fact stated above.

 

I realize you like the rework but that is no excuse to spout blatant lies. As it stands CVs are going to need at least another half a year of (ultimately futile) adjustments. Compared to that the refund period length is nothing short of a joke.

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Vor 8 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

giphy.gif

 

To call CVs anywhere near balanced is hilarious. And will continue to be hilarious because the rework is flawed to its core.

And really, no one is crying about specific things? Just take a look at the dozens of threads, people are literally complaining about everything one way or another. Spotting, damage, AA, MM rulesets, player skill, low tiers, high tiers, nations, premiums, etc. And that too is an inevitability due to the fact stated above.

 

I realize you like the rework but that is no excuse to spout blatant lies. As it stands CVs are going to need at least another half a year of (ultimately futile) adjustments. Compared to that the refund period length is nothing short of a joke.

People are crying about everything the rework introduced. Not like when it actually got introduced about first: Hakuryo,then rocket planes, then spotting.

 

Of course they still cry but not in a concentrated effort anymore. I can understand if you haven't noticed.

Also yes the CVs are pretty balanced when it comes to alpha strike and AA interaction. I would even call a nerf to blob AA a to major CV buff right now but to say it's outright broken still is a lie.

You are an anomaly when it comes to your performance and your ability to play the new CVs, few players are at your level. Not many are at my level either. But if you are going to balance the CVs around players like yourself it's never going to be ever useful for the average player which wargaming is targeting. And for the average player vd average player CVs seem to be at a good spot. Only to strong in the right hands not in everyones hands.

 

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Alpha Tester
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I must reckon that I quite like the Saipan. Probably like it more than Enterprise because it doesn't feel incredibly bad when uptiered. Her HE bombs hold quite a punch and the high HE means it can bully all DDs quite efectively. Torpedo bombers are ok if you make good use of them like in Midway except they actually have higher alpha. Tiny Tims are as good as ever too.

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[NIKE]
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41 minutes ago, Blixies said:

So the Saipan is considered "all done"? 

Well, is there anyone who likes the way Saipan plays now?
(I'm pretty bad myself, so I blame myself for not being able to utilize this CV yet).

Ive done alright with the Saipan. I do prefer CV that have larger reserves/better respawn even if the planes are weaker though - Im much more comfortable with the Kaga for example.

 

The Saipan can't afford losses, and at the same time low AA ships dont tend to shoot anything down. This means the saipan is frustrating for all involved.

 

If you play cautiously enough with it though, it can have some decent damage output.

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24 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

Of course they still cry but not in a concentrated effort anymore.

 

Pffff. Yeah right. I guess you probably haven't noticed that multiple people are calling and supporting multiple issues. In general a concentrated effort would only make sense if issues were few. The CV rework is such a dumpster fire of issues that a concentrated effort fundamentally cannot exist. We simply shift from gigantic issues (Haku torp spam, overspotting, AA etc.) to slightly less gigantic ones (tiering, MM, etc.)

 

24 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

Also yes the CVs are pretty balanced when it comes to alpha strike and AA interaction. I would even call a nerf to blob AA a to major buff right now but to say it's outright broken still is a lie.

 

Oh, it is? That's news to me. For example the fact that I can already reliably strike blobs is hilarious one way or another. And they plan to buff that. There is no solution to this due to the fundamental concept of reworked CV play. Either CVs end up too strong or too weak. There is no acceptable middle ground.

And when you have an issue that has no solutions then what you have is broken.

 

24 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

You are an anomaly when it comes to your performance and your ability to play the new CVs

 

Which would be fine I suppose except WG wanted to eliminate such anomalies.

And the fact that even fewer players can get close to my level of play, that too can be put on the pile of failures WG set out to resolve.

 

Yes, with reworked CVs if WG wants to balance around the average player that'll mean top players will inevitably overperform. On the other hand if WG tries to neuter top players they'll make the class inaccessible to everyone else. There is no solution to this because of the fundamental gameplay concept. There are no mechanics you can dumb down to bridge that gap without sacrificing the enjoyment of playing the class (at which point it automatically becomes a failure anyway).

And remember what I said about problems that have no solutions? Yeah.

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Good, i agree with you and you win this one @El2aZeR

 

Here is hope that with the introduction of Support CV class there will be a counter to attack CV class. But since we know to little about that yet it's very baseless. Just hope then i guess.

 

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42 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Just take a look at the dozens of threads, people are literally complaining about everything specific one way or another. Spotting, damage, AA, MM rulesets, player skill, low tiers, high tiers, nations, premiums, etc. And that too is an inevitability due to the fact stated above.

Can't recall who exactly said it but it was something like " if one side complains AA and the other about CV being too strong we must be doing something right" :P 

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2 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

Can't recall who exactly said it but it was something like " if one side complains AA and the other about CV being too strong we must be doing something right" :P 

I think it was MrConway.

 

But I'd like to point out that a certain person in this thread who's actually good at CVs doesn't seem to mind AA at all.

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[PARAZ]
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I mean, regardless this topic is about the refund period. And it is objectively too short considering WG wants to keep making adjustments all the way to 0.8.4, three full versions from now and god knows how many hotfixes.

What they should do is to extend the period all the way to 0.8.4 at least along with offering free respecs.

 

1 minute ago, mcboernester said:

Can't recall who exactly said it but it was something like " if one side complains AA and the other about CV being too strong we must be doing something right" :P 

 

I mean, they are also saying that premium CV balance is fine now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or remember when they told us to just git gud when literally no one could make the release version of the GZ work because it was garbage? :Smile_trollface:

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Oooh I remember alot of things, like ppl saying  "finally CVs are getting nerfed lol" when the rework was introduced :Smile_trollface:

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