CV's - Good looking, but that's about it.

[UncappingBadger]

I would like to caveat the following by saying this is my opinion. I understand people may not agree. I'll even go as far as to say it might even be a rant.

 

I'm probably one of the few players who believed WG when they said that the CV rework would bring balance to the game, and take away the overwhelming influence CV's can have on a match. I was among the thousands of players who said CV's were just too OP. Well i'm pleased to report they got half of it right. The CV no longer has a massive influence on a game! Now, it has ZERO influence! If you're up tiered you're snookered. You have ZERO control over how the match ends. The same can be said even when top tier. Let me explain my reasoning behind this. 

 

Prior to the RN CV's coming in to the game, I had very little experience with the CV's. When the rework dropped I, like many others spent some XP to unlock a carrier or two to try it out. Of course, being a CV n00b I got my [edited]handed to me. At that point I decided to wait a while and let WG refine it a little more and do some research on how to actually play the CV class. So when they released the new RN CV's I decided to give it another go confident after watching people like Noster, and Flambass I would be in a better position. I'm not saying I expected to be as good as them (I would never presume to be godlike) but at least a step above n00b - competentant maybe.

 

After devouring hours of content on Youtube from the aforementioned CC's and others I've worked at a feverish pace to unlock Hermes, Furious, and Implacable and my experiences so far of them are...well MEH! Oh sure, they look nice and being British national pride kicked in when I seen Swordfish, and Supermarine Seafires flying about for the first time. Once the initial buzz was over however, I quickly realised that i'm not as bad [edited]as I thought. I unlocked the Implacable last night, and after slotting an appropriate captain, paying particular attention to aircraft survivability and speed I took her in for her first fight. WG MM strikes and i'm up tiered to a T10 game.

 

No problem I thought, how bad can it be. I've tanked my aircraft as much as I can. They're as quick as I can make them. I'll just do what those Youtube blokes said and keep moving around and staying unpredictable for the AA. Well, that works when just spotting but attacking things is another kettle of fish. Fast forward about 2 minutes. First target, an enemy DD. I'm in my attack aircraft and line up for a strike. I've thought it though, the nearest cruiser is only just inside of AA range and he's bow on. How many long range AA guns can he possibly fire at me bow on I think? I get on the DD's broadside and begin my strike from about 5km. My aircraft dive and I anxiously await the cursor to turn green. Suddenly boom, bang, flames and screams of agony overtake my screen. My planes are all dead or tumbling in fireballs toward the deep blue yonder.  

 

You guys have seen the Hunt for Red October, with Sean Connery, right? That scene near the end where they're talking to each other through the periscope and he steps back in shock at what the Americans are telling him? Yeah that was me. After composing myself, I put it down to me, I must have missed a cruiser and got swatted by that instead of the one I had noted. So I line up my dive bombers and begin looking for an unsuspecting battleship to bomb. I quickly find one and hes the same tier as me. This time there is no pesky cruisers to ruin my fun either. Excellent. I position myself in front of him and boost toward him as fast as I can. Just before my aiming reticle is on his bow I begin my strike. Just like Noster said. Aim ahead of him, and let the inertia do the rest. All is going well then boom, bang, flames, and screams of agony. My dive bombers are no more. You can imagine how my Torpedo bombers faired.

 

In amongst the spotting for enemy DD's and general intelligence gathering for my team (and the losses that go with that) I conducted a total of 3 strikes. 1 strike per squadron. Each ending in the same way. I spent the rest of the game running partial squadrons of 3 maybe 4 aircraft having zero influence on the game. Not for lack of trying but with AA being what it is, you can't get close enough to make any difference to the battles outcome. This is even true if you're in a game with 2 CV's per team. You coordinate your strike so that you have 2 full squadrons hitting a ship at once and the result is exactly the same.  

 

How is this fun and engaging gameplay, WG? I understand you are still tweaking number values for different ships and the rework is still being, well reworked but I can't help but feel you let this one out of the womb a little early. I'd even acknowledge that i'm a crap CV player. However, when you're talking to other CV players who have hundreds of hours playing the class and they're all getting the same problem and saying the same thing, you start to think maybe it isn't you, you know? The rework has been out for what a month, maybe 2 now? We've had several patches now and its not getting any better. How long does it take to change some numbers, and run a quick test to make sure it doesn't make things worse? What's laughable is that you want to release a premium RN CV. With things how they are now, how many do you think you will sell? Not many I bet.

 

I generally enjoy WOWS, I really do. I couldn't care less about stats, wins or losses. I play to have a laugh with friends, and spend some time with my Dad, who also plays. But at the moment I'm getting the distinct impression you're on a money grab. Getting as much cash out of your player base as possible while giving us very little of any benefit in return. I beg you guys, please fix this horrid state of affairs quickly, before CV's become irrelevant and a massive waste of development time. 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

45 minutes ago, UncappingBadger said:

The CV no longer has a massive influence on a game!

 

[invicta2012]

45 minutes ago, UncappingBadger said:

before CV's become irrelevant and a massive waste of development time. 

That's what most of the player base wants CVs to be, though.

[CptBarney]

6 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

That's what most of the player base wants CVs to be, though.

Basically artillery 2.0 but with guided missles instead in the shape of planes.

[Uglesett]

57 minutes ago, UncappingBadger said:

I'm probably one of the few players who believed WG when they said that the CV rework would bring balance to the game

Fixed.

[BLUB__BLUB]

CVs can do similar damage to  cruiser, at least at T4 and T6. 

If you expected them to be the damage monster that they were, forget it. 

That was only when there was a capable player though - and nobody else wanted to play it.

 

IMO WG has fixed that, lots more play CVs now, and a less capable player can still do OK. 

Yes a potato will still potate. And a unicum player (looking at you here @El2aZeR ) will still be really really good.

But it is no longer so that a CV that is just a bit better than the other CV will dominate the whole game. 

 

[Rautainen_Biisoni]

You play +20 games in a CV with horrible stats and then come complain to forum how they are bad?

You don't care about stats? I think you should. Stats are a guide to show players skill level and your stats show you have a looong way to get to decent level. You are playing CVs the wrong way.

 

I personally get average performance with midway while I suck with Hakuryu. I admit to myself that I ain't playing them correctly and I have to figure them out first before complaining in forum.

Recognize your skill level first and improve your skills.

[Beastofwar]

OP listen up.....a CV comes into power and influence over a match when enemy ships get scattered and are shot up badly from the battle. That is mid-late game.

 

If you want to see serious sh*t from you aircraft, then be sure you didn't waste all your aircraft by then. You need full squadrons mid-late game.

 

Untill that time you can do recon ( bee lining the edge of their AA ) spotting their whole fleet which gives you spotting ribbons that are worth XP and credits. Yes after all the nerfs you can still do that. You can find dangerous DD, lead allied DD/Cruisers to them and attack them together. You can ponder over the tactical map you scouted yourself and single out BB stragglers or BB solo warriors, but not AA cruisers. These you torpedo or dive bomb, not several ships together that put up deadly AA concentrations.

 

When the surface fleets have slugged it out there will be barely floating ships around. These often have busted AA modules and won't put up that heavy AA anymore. These can be sunk easily by your weapons despite the nerfs, and you can reach them much faster then any allied ship. Rolling them up, sinking them one by one in quick succession can be your job. An enemy that thinks they are winning because they have the most ships afloat can see that situation change in minutes. That is why some players still think CV are overpowered.....they see CV killing in quick succession, forget that these are barely floating wrecks.

 

Now this may not happen.....if your team loses you won't be able to do much before you get sunk or lose because of points. Losing a lot of aircraft -for which you get charged - and not making much credits because of a loss in which you coudn't do anything  is frustrating.

 

But by scouting well you give your team the condition they need to have a chance to win. By sinking solo warriors on the edges of the map you relieve pressure on allies, and giving you a base score without losing full squadrons. And by sinking what is leftover after surface battles you can win or decide the match outcome......but you must have aircraft.....if you are deplaned you are virtually useless. So don't throw them away attacking ships you cannot attack.

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

When the surface fleets have slugged it out there will be barely floating ships around. These often have busted AA modules and won't put up that heavy AA anymore. These can be sunk easily by your weapons despite the nerfs, and you can reach them much faster then any allied ship.

And this is supposed to be fun for those ships? Some sort of endgame where the CVs battle it out while the rest dies?

 

 

 

[MRGTB]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes a potato will still potate. And a unicum player (looking at you here @El2aZeR ) will still be really really good.

To be fair @El2aZeR plays a T10 CV in Midway. Let him jump in a T8 CV playing T10 matches now and see how good he does when the planes are far weaker and get pretty much obliterated by most T10 ships. You are lucky if you can make one attack successfully on a T10 ship, unless it has really bad AA. And forget trying to turn around and make a second attack at the ship. Your planes won't make it past the first attack, what is left of them gets killed flying past him after the attack run. It's just a 1 run only and hope that all the planes don't get killed.

 

I'm playing the T8 British CV now and the planes are stronger than any other nations planes for the tier it's said by WG. I have both armour and increase HP 3 point skills on the planes to make them even stronger with a 16 point captain used, plus took all other plane skills, etc. But when you get up-tiered in a T8 CV to T10 matches, it isn't fun because the planes just ain't strong enough against T10 ships maxed out for AA.

 

As you can see in the image below, it's not even like I don't have all the plane skills used to try and do better. Even made the planes as strong as they can be.

 

 

To be honest it's frustrating and soon becomes not enjoyable when seeing you're in a T10 match with a T8 CV. You basically have to search out fist what few T8 ships are in T10 matches to attack because at least you stand a chance against the same tier ships as your CV planes. After that, it's trying to attack T9/T10 ships and usually seeing your planes slaughtered all the time, it gets boring. Rinse and repeat of the same thing in T10 matches with a T8 CV.

 

Tier 8 CV should not be in matches higher than T9. At T9 you get a few T9 ships, the rest is filled with T7/T8 ships usually. That is far more balanced for a T8 CV. Jumping up to T10 matches when most ships are T9/10 with only the odd T8 ship included in it, that is too bad for a T8 CV to play at.

 

I don't play CV all the time, I'm pretty new to playing it and play other ships like BB a lot. I see both sides of things, how it's funny for a BB that he can kill all the CV planes in one go. But there's no fun for the CV player in that.

[MRGTB]

2 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

But by scouting well you give your team the condition they need to have a chance to win. By sinking solo warriors on the edges of the map you relieve pressure on allies, and giving you a base score without losing full squadrons. And by sinking what is leftover after surface battles you can win or decide the match outcome......but you must have aircraft.....if you are deplaned you are virtually useless. So don't throw them away attacking ships you cannot attack.

Oh yeah! And I can see how exciting any CV player would think that is going to be. Spending half a match just flying around in circles spotting ships and doing no damage to earn the credits.

 

Do you not think CV players already do that (to some degree) anyway once they start to run short of planes. Do more of a spotting job while they wait to replenish some extra planes needed. Don't forget also, that ships do group together for better AA. So even if in the latter stages of a match some ships now have reduced AA effectiveness, they may be grouping up together to make up for that.

[affie]

3 hours ago, MRGTB said:

To be fair @El2aZeR plays a T10 CV in Midway. Let him jump in a T8 CV playing T10 matches now and see how good he does when the planes are far weaker and get pretty much obliterated by most T10 ships. You are lucky if you can make one attack successfully on a T10 ship, unless it has really bad AA. And forget trying to turn around and make a second attack at the ship. Your planes won't make it past the first attack, what is left of them gets killed flying past him after the attack run. It's just a 1 run only and hope that all the planes don't get killed.

 

I'm playing the T8 British CV now and the planes are stronger than any other nations planes for the tier it's said by WG. I have both armour and increase HP 3 point skills on the planes to make them even stronger with a 16 point captain used, plus took all other plane skills, etc. But when you get up-tiered in a T8 CV to T10 matches, it isn't fun because the planes just ain't strong enough against T10 ships maxed out for AA.

I understand how bottom tier in T8 can be frustrating, but you are not useless in any matchup. Do what the players in this thread are suggesting, scouting in the early game, picking of lonely ships in late game. 

 

Had 2 games in my stock Lexington yesterday being bottom tier, one vs a fairly mixed team where I focused a solo Harugumo with dive bombers for a long time, to bad RNG didn't favour me with hits or teamoriented teamplayers since no one focused it while I did my scouting/attacks. Second game was versus triple Des Moines division and USN or German BBs in enemy team, I couldn't do much other than scouting and retreat from those Des Moines and finally I attacked a flank with Montana, F. de Grosse and Hipper. We lost both games, but I in my stock T8 Lexington ended up top 5 in the team so I dont blame the CV for that since far to few of the players in my team carried their own weight in those games. 

 

Regarding the RN with their strong planes I haven't felt it yet compared to USN. They are beefed up but also slower, so the total time spent inside the AA DPS aura will mitigate part of the higher HP. I will have to learn the RN CV and make use of those beefier ship, but as of now I prefer the faster more flexible USN CV. 

[Beastofwar]

6 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

And this is supposed to be fun for those ships? Some sort of endgame where the CVs battle it out while the rest dies?

 

 

 

 

Dunno, but that is how it works after the stack of nerfs that were slappend on, plus player adaptation by moving in tight formations of ships resulting in concentrated AA that is not survivable.

 

Do anything else and see fireballs instead of squadrons. Then you are all but de-planed when you could be most effective.

 

It might change when more players ditch their AA build, leave their by design specialized AA cruisers in port and loosen formations again because there are very few matches with CV. All their choices were a result of conceived threat of omnipresent aircraft, that are not there anymore.....

[El2aZeR]

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

Let him jump in a T8 CV playing T10 matches now and see how good he does when the planes are far weaker and get pretty much obliterated by most T10 ships.

 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3751786480,Enterprise/

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3751786480,Enterprise/

More disturbing
https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4181702352,Shokaku/

 

in THAT Shokaku. Which means I'm uberpotato in field of potatoes simply by casually floating through space and time, clicking on red ones?

[BLUB__BLUB]

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

To be fair @El2aZeR plays a T10 CV in Midway. Let him jump in a T8 CV playing T10 matches now and see how good he does when the planes are far weaker and get pretty much obliterated by most T10 ships. You are lucky if you can make one attack successfully on a T10 ship, unless it has really bad AA. And forget trying to turn around and make a second attack at the ship. Your planes won't make it past the first attack, what is left of them gets killed flying past him after the attack run. It's just a 1 run only and hope that all the planes don't get killed.

I'm quite sure he'll have a work-around for that, too. He's not a T10CV-only player, I have taken many tips and as a result I'm doing quite fine in CVs.

 

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

I'm playing the T8 British CV now and the planes are stronger than any other nations planes for the tier it's said by WG. I have both armour and increase HP 3 point skills on the planes to make them even stronger with a 16 point captain used, plus took all other plane skills, etc. But when you get up-tiered in a T8 CV to T10 matches, it isn't fun because the planes just ain't strong enough against T10 ships maxed out for AA.

A T6 CV in a T8 game is also not the best... still doing OK. 

 

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

As you can see in the image below, it's not even like I don't have all the plane skills used to try and do better. Even made the planes as strong as they can be.

 

Spoiler

 

I have sort of the sae build. 

 

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

To be honest it's frustrating and soon becomes not enjoyable when seeing you're in a T10 match with a T8 CV. You basically have to search out fist what few T8 ships are in T10 matches to attack because at least you stand a chance against the same tier ships as your CV planes. After that, it's trying to attack T9/T10 ships and usually seeing your planes slaughtered all the time, it gets boring. Rinse and repeat of the same thing in T10 matches with a T8 CV.

Yes that is similar in T6 wehn uptiered to T8. But there are tricks. 

Like dumping the first two attacks, so your planes return. 

 

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

Tier 8 CV should not be in matches higher than T9. At T9 you get a few T9 ships, the rest is filled with T7/T8 ships usually. That is far more balanced for a T8 CV. Jumping up to T10 matches when most ships are T9/10 with only the odd T8 ship included in it, that is too bad for a T8 CV to play at.

Agreed. It goes for all ships indeed.

 

6 hours ago, MRGTB said:

I don't play CV all the time, I'm pretty new to playing it and play other ships like BB a lot. I see both sides of things, how it's funny for a BB that he can kill all the CV planes in one go. But there's no fun for the CV player in that.

Correct. At least it learned me which ships NOT to attack. 

[TheDrizzt]

B4 rework I used to get alerted and even feel a bit scary when I see CV planes coming towards me (while playing Cruiser or BB). I used to call for friendly air support too much. Complaining our CV why he is not taking care of enemy squadrons etc. Now I honestly care a little. I am talking about T8 and up games. Actually I can't even remember if I ever got killed by a CV (again while playing BB or Cruiser) since the rework. CV vs DD is totally another story but I may support that bu generally CVs' effect on the game shut down for good. May be really good CV players still make a difference but not the majority I guess.

[belalugosisdead]

Hm. I never played a single battle in RTS CVs. But often played with our CV main. So i learned, what a RTS CV was able to do. It was a lot, but also limited by Red CV and AA Ships with good Positioning. And i learned what was not i good idea. A lot of people asking for fighter support never understood that a CV could not  protect a Shima speedboosting in a Cap, when on other side a wooster and Mino parked.  Waste of fighters. People often played wrong in CV games, they played as it was a no CV game.  That made the good CVs so strong. 

 

In last weeks i try some of the new T4 CVs. My first CV games ever. The T4,  they are boring as [edited], and they dont do very much damage. But they have potential  to influence the game.  Via spotting, especially DDs, forcing them to smoke, leave cap.... and getting damage from others. Even with not impressive damage numbers i won over 80 Prozent  of 30 games, mostly with 2 CVs per side ans without Division . The longer the game, the bigger my influence, because targets lose health pool ... and can be killed even from a T4 CV. 

 

In higher Tiers i dont have CVs,  but as ground ship player: you  see some good CVs... and...lot more of questionable quality. Why for example should i fly with my first wave of planes direct into the enemy spawn....  into 2 cruisers and 3 battleships losing all planes for no damage? In the meantime the opponent CV  has planes over a cap blocking enemy DD. In the old world CV play was... I think hard to master. Lot of squads, strafing etc. So the Skill gap was imense. And the team with a bad CV vs good CV had often hard time. The new system seems to be no rocket science to me. Even if the Red CV is a better Player, it should be able to do stuff that matters for my team? 

 

  

[Excavatus]

@El2aZeR
When will you accept that you don't count?

You are an anomaly...

anomalies don't get count in the statistics :)

 

[veslingr]

T4 CV has serious problem with low DMG and it potential to carry games is low

t6 is in better spot, higher DPS but still i would say im middle of pack

t8 is in good spot DMG vise, but has problem with constant t10 MM where you can do alot by spotting and picking lonely riders, but still with high price. For instance Saipan is in world of pain here.

t10 is a beast, but as any CV needs time...for instance 2 games yesterday, 1 was full duration and i manage to carry team and we won. 220 k dmg, 4 kils, killed last ship that turned score points to ur side before 20:00 mark ticked. Game after i spoted 2 DDS and attacked them, while they died almost whole enemie team was dead..i was with 2 kills and 60k dmg....did help team to win (spoting) but flooped dooing dmg because it was all over 8 minutes after start.

 

REGARDING CW

we did try it yesterday , and first matcch we got team WITHOUT CV.....well they played as ussual...1 wing push, other woing kite....it did not went well for them.....i spoted DD, shima....first frop 6500 dmg - smoke - radar - dead. zao was left alone....2 drops 12 k dmg, nex rockets with 7 k, while turning he got deleted by Montana. Basicly it was game over in 4 minutes.

 

CV have great potential, they are not in bad shape. but as ALLWAYS you can not brute force yourself thrue wall of AAA...you will deplete your planes too fast and replenishment is slow. Pick target. Know what is yur man weapon in ship (USN CV are HE bombs) and spec according. dont judge CVs on t4 and 6....in t8 only experienced players will do good in bad MM scenario

[Beastofwar]

3 hours ago, belalugosisdead said:

 i won over 80 Prozent 

 

Wie bitte ? :-)))

[Yaskaraxx]

WG has to act now: fast fix for IJN cariers; canot do any damage, laughable, ridiculous---> no players around anymore wanting ta play carriers---> fast fix (make them at least "bit" playable...otherwise you will loose player-base....act now)

 

(read other comments on this topic, but, those are NOT real players....so take them not serious, they are "alts-paid-for"...but me, I am for real consumer & I want a HOTFIX!!!! THIS WEEK!!!)

[Uglesett]

4 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

(read other comments on this topic, but, those are NOT real players....so take them not serious, they are "alts-paid-for"...

 

Quote

but me, I am for real consumer & I want a HOTFIX!!!! THIS WEEK!!!)

Didn't your mother teach you that you can't have everything you want?

*edit*

Oh woe. What a terrible loss that would be.

[Tugnut]

@El2aZeR Do you in the most part play in a platoon or solo?

 

And what is your opinon of the latest changes in CV's ?

[Yaskaraxx]

...yes, my request is very decent and reasonable. and yes i am used getting what i want, always (cuz me demands are balanced + reasonable, very reasonable)....forums is not WG ---> so I sure hope WG read this!!!...forums is "franchised to some others out of company"...for me it is WG!, I trust WG (THOSE people are great game-makers. those I trust....and I do NOT trust people on these forums, all "bought-franchized-and-paid-for---> no real players on forums, yeah, me, as the last of Mohicans??..... lol

 

anyway, doing business?...this is how i deal with the fake ones, lol, have a close look at it & let it sink in:

 

funny simultan chess

yt vid, google yrself

 

IJN CARRIERS NEED A HOTFIX!!!!!!!...THIS WEEK!!!!