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Cadelanne

How to not die in the first 5 minutes as battleship ?

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Ok so I get it, BBs aren't supposed to stay 20km away from everything and wait for the game to pass. I'm trying to play BBs right now since I don't like the CV rework. I'm having troubles.

 

So as a BB I'm supposed to help my team push the caps and kill ennemy ships from relatively close. But I can't. Anytime I try to close a cap I eat a torpedo wall and, more frustrating and unavoidalbe, HE spam, and I die litteraly less than 5 minutes into the game. My survival rate is probably around 15%. I'm trying to use islands as covers but ofc that doesn't work vs HE cruisers, so at this point I don't see what I can do to not get burnt to death before having shot 3 times, besides just reversing from the spawn and be irrellevant. Help pls.

 

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yeah like u dont want to push into DD's and try stay a relative distance between u and the enemy, stay angled use your HP well, the mini map will also give u an idea of when to push and when to kite

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[SHAFT]
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If you die that fast in a BB, then you definetely overextended. I always wonder about BBs dieing very early into the game - normaly that shouldnt happen.

 

The most crucial skill to learn when playing BBs is, WHEN to push in / use your HP pool. Basicly you are looking for the middle ground between camping in the back, and rushing too far ahead. You should post a replay, then we can tell you why your move might have been wrong or too early.

 

I have no problem dieing in a BB when it helps my team a lot by winning, but dieing uselessly is something you should always avoid.

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in my opinion...stay with your cruisers for AA support, use your flag for extra AA, 

When you are detected by enemy HE spammers, start to zigzag. 

Normally your cruisers will support you against enemy cruisers & DD's.

Remember… this is not a play-by-yourself game... teamwork really pays off.

And yes... everyone has bad days :D … just have fun

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[TTTX]
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I would suggest that the main way to achieve a decent survival rate is to push with your team and not overextend.

As far as eating torpedo salvos goes, it's a matter of not going to a cap when you do not have DD and/or cruiser support.

 

One thing I always try to keep in mind when I am getting HE spammed is "are my cruisers also doing a lot of damage during that time?". Because as a BB you should be able to survive a considerable amount of time while being spammed and that is damage that your team mates are not taking.

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[SM0KE]
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Speaking as a DD main, it sounds like you're over-extending? I'm always on the lookout for BBs that get too close to the front and/or get isolated: the less time my torps have to run, the more likely it is that I'll get hits.

 

I'm not a BB meister, but I gather that most BBs want to be surfing their surface detection distance, such that you go undetected between salvos (which makes it harder to aim torps at you). Also, at medium range, you should still be getting enough hits for your damage to matter (contrary to hiding at the back), whilst still being a difficult proposition for torp strikes, assuming you change speed and direction periodically.

 

The only BBs (I think) that work better when at closer range, tend to be the secondary monsters like Bismark, Tirpitz, MA etc.

 

As a BB, your primary aim (at least in earlyish game) is to vapourise enemy cruisers (radar ones especially); they're big enough to hit consistently at medium range, so you don't need to get close, at least initially...

 

Edit: an advantage of being at a distance where you can break contact is that you can sneak away and heal when damaged, before returning to do it all over again (assuming most damage you suffered wasn't from citadels).

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I play GK for now. Overextand ? Probably. I try to never get isolated, so as you say I try to push with DDs. In fact I try to support DDs into capping with hydro and guns, but despite the fact that I push with allies, I get focused by 3, 4, 5 ships like Worcester, Akizuki, Zao etc. as I'm the bigger of the pack, and I die in 3 minutes at most.

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Someone stated a general rule how to behave in cruisers if you find yourself seperated from the allies and alone : if you see a lot of enemies you can shoot, don't shoot and run away.

 

Goes for BB that has become seperated from other allies and find themselves alone too.......turn around and show them your stern only ( smaller surface to hit, much angle on incoming shells  ) untill you are far enough they can't focus fire on you anymore, then reconnect with friendlies. You don't only attract focussed fire when you are alone and far from allies, but attract aircraft and roaming stealth DD too.

 

In general attempt to stay near to other BB or Cruisers, safety in numbers. If incoming damage is focusssed on you face the bow to them ( smaller surface to hit, much angle on incoming shells  ) and reverse of turn the stern to them and create distance.

 

Note that some BB have most of their guns on the front of the ship....use that and don't be tempted to use you aft guns too as this will make you more much vulnerable. A broadside ( full lenght exposed ) positioned BB eats citadels and/or takes lots of damage. Note that some BB have most guns on the back of the ship....these are great to retreat but make the BB/cruisers firing at you pay dearly. So use the design of the ship in your advantage.

 

If you are fed up with standoff type fighting then face your bow toward the enemy ( smaller surface to hit, much angle on incoming shells  ) when closing in, but only do this 1:1 or 1:2 if both are heavy damaged. You can't charge alone of will be focussed down. DD like charging BB....it will be often torpedo's out of nowhere that stop you, not enemy shell fire.

 

Maybe you want to check your captain points and ship enhancements too.....if you are burned down all the time you need some fire prevention/reduction going, and maybe shortened consumable CD's and more points in survivability.

 

 

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I suggest you watch some streams. A lot of the survivability in a BB comes from a nice positioning and a good map awareness. If you push, are you sure there is no DD on front of you?

Check out Flamu's stream on twitch. He's not the nicest and most patient of players, bur he really plays BBs very well, i learnt a lot by watching him, and I really was a terribly bad player when I started that game.

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59 minutes ago, Cadelanne said:

Ok so I get it, BBs aren't supposed to stay 20km away from everything and wait for the game to pass. I'm trying to play BBs right now since I don't like the CV rework. I'm having troubles.

 

So as a BB I'm supposed to help my team push the caps and kill ennemy ships from relatively close. But I can't. Anytime I try to close a cap I eat a torpedo wall and, more frustrating and unavoidalbe, HE spam, and I die litteraly less than 5 minutes into the game. My survival rate is probably around 15%. I'm trying to use islands as covers but ofc that doesn't work vs HE cruisers, so at this point I don't see what I can do to not get burnt to death before having shot 3 times, besides just reversing from the spawn and be irrellevant. Help pls.

 

  • you should learn how to play BB before reaching Tier X
  • you can use WASD to make your course less predictable
  • you can use your DD as torpedo spotter
  • there is a thing called islands that gives cover
  • you can watch the minimap and get information where your teammates are and what enemies are spotted where
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[WGP2W]
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Did you already setup your minimap correctly?

  • Enable last known ship positions
  • Enable ship names

You can acces this menu during battle, there is a gear on the top right of the minimap. This way the minimap will automatically provide you with tons of information, including the last known positions of DDs, which usually only get spotted very briefly.

Keep in mind that pushing is not the job of a BB, but a team effort. Usually you have to start the push, but when no one follows you might as well pull back and join them to shoot at the enemy from a distance. 

German battleships is currently the most difficult nation to play well in. I'd personally would advise you to try out the French ones. They have a bit more speed, so it allows for more positioning errors. The guns itself are easy to aim with due the high velocity shells :) So try to stick with the low tiers till you feel confident, like the Normandie etc :) 
Good luck

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[THESO]
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serious 2 cts:

go back to lower tiers and play usn bb's up to colorado a lot! that will teach u how to not overextend.... it's kinda tricky with em lol.

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1 hour ago, Cadelanne said:

Ok so I get it, BBs aren't supposed to stay 20km away from everything and wait for the game to pass. I'm trying to play BBs right now since I don't like the CV rework. I'm having troubles.

 

So as a BB I'm supposed to help my team push the caps and kill ennemy ships from relatively close. But I can't. Anytime I try to close a cap I eat a torpedo wall and, more frustrating and unavoidalbe, HE spam, and I die litteraly less than 5 minutes into the game. My survival rate is probably around 15%. I'm trying to use islands as covers but ofc that doesn't work vs HE cruisers, so at this point I don't see what I can do to not get burnt to death before having shot 3 times, besides just reversing from the spawn and be irrellevant. Help pls.

 

You play t10 which isn't really helping your cause, which since yr on GK is to push and get close to brawl a bit, since the skill level there is pretty low and teamplay nonexistent... to one of the two teams in mm:Smile_coin: -most of the times (8 out 10), so it depends on the day which you'll get.

 

that means if you push u die :Smile_facepalm:(torps, HE, nukes etc), if you go for objectives you die :Smile_teethhappy:(see previous) and if you expect help or support you (that's fraking right! - U get NONE) ...and die again.:fish_nerv: Only hope is to pick the biggest fat blob of ships, that big cancerous slow moving mass  and put it between you and the enemy, like a gargantuan meatshield, then move following their course from a safe distance and look for an opportunity to hurt the enemy team.

 

Don't rush in caps too fast, I know seeing the dds die unsupported (be it by their fault -majority of cases- or not) is hard but it can't be helped (even if it means you lose the game), cuz the team will not help you most of the times, either cuz they don't want to, or they don't know, or they follow the current meta which says -to lemming, is to live-:Smile_smile:or something to that extent . Start with this, like as if you were playing with bots. Just use them to do your thing and maybe grab a win. Late game you know what to do with GK but early I would look to stay alive over anything else, opportunities will come.

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Don't know if there's a magic trick, but at the start it's better to hang far enough back that you have time to turn back and start kiting if it turns out that most of the enemy team have lemmingtrained in your direction. Don't push too aggressively until you know where most of the enemy team are going. If the ships scouting for you start running, chances are you should too. 

 

It also helps to position yourself so that you have a convenient landmass to head behind if you need to turn away.

 

Most of the firestarters have pretty high ballistic arcs and have a harder time dealing with a target that's heading away. So kiting away is often the best way of handling them.

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2 hours ago, Cadelanne said:

Ok so I get it, BBs aren't supposed to stay 20km away from everything and wait for the game to pass. I'm trying to play BBs right now since I don't like the CV rework. I'm having troubles.

Duuuude... seems like you are a CV main indeed, from your stats. My condolences, or something.

I like the new CVs but I do feel sorry for the ones that do not, and played them before. 

 

Must say it also seems you're not doing TOO bad in BBs, lots of people doing worse... 

When you get 40%, yes THAT is bad. 50% average and medium damage? You're above that. 

So... it's not that bad, really. You are still above average damage, and above average WR.

My d stats do not look that good... and I play mainly BB.

 

Maybe it is just... what it is supposed to be like? :fish_nerv:

I  mean... how many games last more than 5 minutes, nowadays?

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Duuuude... seems like you are a CV main indeed, from your stats. My condolences, or something.

I like the new CVs but I do feel sorry for the ones that do not, and played them before. 

 

Must say it also seems you're not doing TOO bad in BBs, lots of people doing worse... 

When you get 40%, yes THAT is bad. 50% average and medium damage? You're above that. 

So... it's not that bad, really. You are still above average damage, and above average WR.

My d stats do not look that good... and I play mainly BB.

 

Maybe it is just... what it is supposed to be like? :fish_nerv:

I  mean... how many games last more than 5 minutes, nowadays?

 

I find the rework enjoyable, but not intresting. It's fun to be deep into the action etc but it's not as instresting as it was before, micromanaging and multitasking was actually part of the game. My biggest concern is that there's a lot of time where you're just flying planes around, or back to the battlefield, and you're not doing anything. That's pretty boring. I don't hate this rework and won't stop playing CV, I just prefered how it was before.

 

Back to the stats, these are old stats, I actually made a 2 years break and came back a few weeks ago. I guess I forgot everything :/

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1 minute ago, Cadelanne said:

I find the rework enjoyable, but not intresting. It's fun to be deep into the action etc but it's not as instresting as it was before, micromanaging and multitasking was actually part of the game. My biggest concern is that there's a lot of time where you're just flying planes around, or back to the battlefield, and you're not doing anything. That's pretty boring. I don't hate this rework and won't stop playing CV, I just prefered how it was before.

Ha, well I'm the other way around - I liked the CV gameplay before but the stuttering (and the effects) were bad, also it reminded me too much of Red Alert... so not for me.

On the other hand I liked WoWP but found it too boring, and guess what WG gave me WoWP with live moving targets that actually fought back... :Smile_trollface:

 

1 minute ago, Cadelanne said:

Back to the stats, these are old stats, I actually made a 2 years break and came back a few weeks ago. I guess I forgot everything :/

Oh crap... well maybe best thing would be to start from scratch a bit. Things DID change a lot. I've been playing a bit more than two years.

Forst of all you need to establish what sort of ships you like, they are VERY different. Playstyle for Hood will no work at all in Arizona, for instance.

I'd start at T4/T5 (since you already know the basics, sort of) and go from there. It might turn out you do not like BBs at all (or anymore).

 

Once you have 'mastered' one BB, then it is on to the next. 

Warning: if you take the RN BB line, after Queen Elizabeth they change... massively. 

From being sort of like bulldozers throwing fat shells that make big holes, they become racehorses spitting fire. 

 

The usual things apply though:

  • Know your ship: which ones can penetrate you, and which ones you can pen;
  • Know the other lines: what can the DD do, what is the exact concealment of one or other;
  • ...and learn to know what is the most likely thing the guy in front (or at the rear) of you is gonna do.

This stuff is a LOT more important  in ships than in CVs. I have been shooting at targets, and they just laughed... 

Now I know what to shoot (with AP or HE), where to try hit them, when to run, and when to make ready for a brawl - and how to avoid them.

 

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There is a fine balance for BB game play.. Be reckless, die early, become frustrated.. be over cautious, stay back, you will lose your allies because they will die first.

 

Against DD's imagine how you would play one yourself in the hunt of a BB.

You would look for the BB that is easy to hit because it is close to an Island, alone in open water or putting itself at the head of the wall.. DD's can attack with virtual impunity because you just cannot see them.

A DD's torpedoes can extend to 20km range and BB's cannot easily avoid them if fired close in.

With a BB's slow and limited movement an Island might actually hinder you because you lose the freedom to move and so a brave Destroyer can pin you with torpedoes...you're more concerned with missing them to be effective in the counter play and so the DD can easily escape.

 

Learn your Cruisers so you know which can burn you hardest and when they are spotted stay out of their range. Fire on them at every opportunity unless a more important target shows itself. DOn't immediately put out the fires until out of range because you can still reclaim most fire damage from repair, unless this is changed. Don't assume an Island is protection from HE. Remember some Cruisers carry torpedoes which are just a lethal as torpedoes from a DD.

Know your enemies capability and your battle is half won.

 

Let the allied DD's and Cruiser proceed ahead of you but you must stay close enough to be able to deter an enemy attack and support your consorts.

Don't long shot as you give your position away without a chance of high damage. Watch the mini map, if you cannot read it make it larger.

Where enemy DD's are spotted change course, change speed and don't be the head of your group..those behind you can escape faster and easier. Become the illusive target never just go in straight lines..

 

Above all don't be frustrated if things don't work to plan at first. It takes time to develop a strategy of play in a BB... Out guessing your opponent is even harder at the beginning but patterns do emerge.

Stay in the Tier you are most comfortable in...

 

 

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probably dont help you're in one of the biggest BBs with one of the largest detection ranges?

don't push into a cap. that's not what you're supposed to do. instead hang back enough that you're not an obvious target, but make sure you're forward enough to punish enemy cruisers trying to push or contest your own cruisers and DDs in a cap.  

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It's a pretty delicate balance between being close enough -- so that your salvos hit accurately, and you can use a good amount (but not all) of your HP pool for your team's benefit -- but too close. You WANT to get hit. Better you than the friendly cruiser/DD who can't take it. Yet you need that window to disengage. But then you're slow, so that window is not big.

 

It's not easy -- truly effective BB plays is IMO one of the more difficult things in the game.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, EmilyKing said:

probably dont help you're in one of the biggest BBs with one of the largest detection ranges?

don't push into a cap. that's not what you're supposed to do. instead hang back enough that you're not an obvious target, but make sure you're forward enough to punish enemy cruisers trying to push or contest your own cruisers and DDs in a cap.  

To be more specific:

  • stay at the limit of your detection range (if it is 14km, that is ~ 14km from cap);
  • try blap broadside cruisers citadel with AP, or angled cruisers and DDs with HE (AP don't work on DDs much...);
  • scare them away so your DD buddies can take the cap and you win.
  • after they take the cap, patrol the area around it - take care not to get surprised by lurking DDs;
  • stay away from suspicious islands hiding a cruiser that will spam you to death.

I assume you are familiar with Repair- and heal management:

  • do not put out ONE fire unless you are safe;
  • try to use the heal when best served... 

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2 hours ago, MrWastee said:

serious 2 cts:

go back to lower tiers and play usn bb's up to colorado a lot! that will teach u how to not overextend.... it's kinda tricky with em lol.

 

Yeah, early US BBs are so slow you never ahead of your cruisers...

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27 minutes ago, gustywinds said:

Yeah, early US BBs are so slow you never ahead of your cruisers...

Yes you are... suppose you follow one, keeping your distance, not hard eh?

Then what happens, he gets blapped, whack! Devstrike! SO...?

 

SURPRISE you are now  in front.... :Smile_trollface:

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5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yes you are... suppose you follow one, keeping your distance, not hard eh?

Then what happens, he gets blapped, whack! Devstrike! SO...?

 

SURPRISE you are now  in front.... :Smile_trollface:

Just about as often: Everybody abandons the flank you have spawned on.

Thank you for choosing to play the rearguard all match. 

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41 minutes ago, rnat said:

Just about as often: Everybody abandons the flank you have spawned on.

Thank you for choosing to play the rearguard all match. 

Yeah that too, a large part of 'gitgud' is to predict WTF your teammates are gonna do now.

Or what they are NOT gonna do. As in: "forget it, not following you DD butt through that gap", stuff like that.

And as an ex-CV main he should know: a lone ship is usually a dead ship... unless he kills the other one first.

Also: do not fight fair, only idiots fight fair. Three vs one is just fine... :Smile_trollface:

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