Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Lea_Flamma

Cruisers - How to?

21 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
77 posts
1,978 battles

Hi y'all!

You have been terriffic at helping me so far, so here I am once more!

 

I started developing into Cruisers, giving my beloved Akatsuki some rest time. Well overall I started playing something more than just IJN ships overall, trying to push the other nations a bit up the tiers, but Cruisers are my main focus now. And I must say, I encountered some problems, when playing with the higher tier IJN and USN ships. The two I have played the most recently are Atlanta and Myoko. And I must admit, I find myself not fully able to grasp, what I am to do in this class of a ship.

 

On a first glance, Atlanta seemed like a great DD support ship. I push with the DD, provide it with AA fire thanks to the infinite defensive consumable while flushing out enemy DDs from smoke with Radar. The firepower is great for melting DDs, the reload and amount of HE shells is just on another level. But... I have a few problems with the ship when played like that.

 

- I find myself either on the wrong side of an island, with a lot of AP shells coming my way.

- I find myself on the right side of an island, unable to support the DD properly.

- The guns are great, but their range is terrible, meaning I have to get up close and personal to ships I would definitely want to keep my distance from.

- AP is nonexistant, I only ever use it when facing other Light Cruisers, otherwise I fail to pen anything.

- Torpedoes are... Okay? You have to be super close and personal for them, which is a death sentance most of the time.

- I feel like I fail to support the team properly. Most of the games I hand at some 15-40k damage done, just because most ships are outside of my range.

 

Myoko is a completely different story, with great guns, good AP and okay range. Also 4 launchers with 10km torpedoes. This ship is a great kiter, although gun placement is somewhat awkward, forcing you to show lots of broadside if you want to use more than the rear two turrets. But even here I fail to fully grasp, what to do exactly.

 

- I pick an island as my waifu, but that mostly ends with poor firing angles due to poor shell arcs on this baby.

- Angling does not help much, as I found myself being citadeled from all the possible angles.

- She is slow as hell in turning, to the point a good CV player has a 100% chance of torping you with each strike.

- CV overall is a terrible enemy to have, I found myself running with Defensive AA as well as the Fighter all the time.

- AP is good, but a BB is still a nightmare to pen.

 

My overall problem is, I am not quite sure what is the role of a Cruiser in the game. A Destroyer is meant to cap and provide map controll through torpedoes and spotting. Carrier is meant to spot and harass the enemy team with fires, floodings and just deal damage. Battleships are meant to hug the border and snipe with HE shells... Uhm, I mean... Totally lead the defensive kiting or pushing into the enemy, which they totally do, totally not hugging the borders and spamming HE. But Cruiser is just like... I am lost a bit.

 

- Cruisers lack the manouverability of Destroyers, hence lacking the survivability of them.

- Cruisers lack the stealth of Destroyers, hence lacking the flanking, crossfire opportunities as well as map controll of them.

- Cruisers lack the armor of Battleships, hence lacking the survivability of them.

- Cruisers lack the Repair Party, again lack of survivability.

- Due to the way guns are around tiers 5-7, you are either great at AP-ing Cruisers or HE-ing DDs. Not both at once.

- Angling against BBs is impossible. I was citadeled from the front, from the sides, from the back. I was only ever able to angle against other Cruisers.

 

So... What is the trick to playing a Cruiser? Is being a mediocre support ship all they are good for? BBs are a death sentence, as one salvo can just remove you from the game. DDs are somewhat easier to deal with, if you spot them. Other cruisers are mostly based on skill, who gives the broadside against the AP and who can aim/dodge better. I just fail to see the class being any good at anything other than plopping planes out of the sky and even that only on some Cruisers. And if you have no CV in the match, I just feel like I could have influenced the game so much more in a DD or a BB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
26,280 posts
14,162 battles

Altanta --> go island

In open water you want to fight only against DD and CL and even that is not advisable most of the time.

 

Myoko --> go for targets that are distracted (works best from flanks), do not become the focus of BB or other CA.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
984 posts
20,413 battles

Very good thoughts for a relative new-in-game-player. Im sure you are on a good way. 

 

Cruisers are very different in the Game.. and that influences their playstyle. Its maybe the most difficult class to master, but then very rewarding. 

 

Atlanta needs islands to shoot over. Or in Division a Smoking DD. Atlanta is great for divisions. You need  in Optimum 18 Points: IFHE, AFT and CE. If you are not on a Division your position is even more important. You cant trust your random Team members. In worst case you get rushed from the side and are dead  in minutes. So its very important to know your maps and play safe. The most shitty MM for you is T9 with open maps. I mostly try to get near caps for radar Support. Search islands that are good for Shooting over. If you dont find one... park behind one where you can radar caps. Play safe untill you get better knowledge  about enemy ships. 

 

Myoko is very different. Sometimes you can use Islands but in different way than Atlanta. You need  more distance to shoot over. Most time you are roaming around. Avoid broadsides. Use Priotity target to see if you are focused. If... go dark and reposition. And: every good BB knows the Myoko turning torp Trick. And they wait for the broadside ....

 

For every Cruiser: your value grow with  game duration.  

 

Cruisers are very good damage dealer over time... but you have to keep your HP. 

 

Its hard to get more specific because  Cruisers are so.... different. For ex a Mogami has better CE, so you can play little bit different than Myoko. So watch specific YouTube vids for the playstyle...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
77 posts
1,978 battles

I found it difficult to position properly to be honest. Atlanta is... Okaish in this regard, as you can usually just get some more distance and just plop the shells over the island, as her arcs are somewhat decent for that. But I find it almost impossible to fight any other Cruiser or Battleship, as they delete you in an instant. Especially later into the game, when there is no more Destroyers to spot for you. Most of the time I find myself either behind an island and rushed from the side, which means instant death when I try to turn and flee. Or the enemy team is dead and I spend the next 10 minutes trying to catch up to the fight, due to her low range.

 

Myoko is a different cookie, her turning is terriawful and she suffers from torpedo strikes, be they from a DD or CV. Her AA is so so, especially when you burn through all the utilities you have. I had a game, where I shot down over 40 planes and still died to the CV alone. Her guns are impressive, but on those tiers people usually know how to angle their BBs against AP and HE is just healed back. My problem with her is, that I find myself very often overmatched against pushing BBs and have no real means of countering it. Torpedoes are good, but she is so sluggish, that she becomes an instant target for the enemy.

 

I cannot remember the exact builds I have on those ships, but I believe Myoko is currently at Expert Loader, Adrenaline Rush, something in Tier 3 and CE... Atlanta is currently on Priority Target, Adrenaline Rush and Demolition Expert. With the amount of HE spam she plops out, it felt like the most useful, considering the infinite DAAF she has. Priority Target is a bit of a brown allert skill, as I find myself with a neat 3-5 every time I am detected. Although it helps against Destroyers, as torpedoes don't count towards the limit.

 

Playing in a Division is not an option to me, as I don't have any friends playing this game and don't belong to a guild. So I am a solo guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
984 posts
20,413 battles

So looks like a 6 Points Captain only in Atlanta? Ok, thats hard. Atlanta is one of the ships that is in need of a good Captain. I play it with 3 4 Points Skills and would not miss any of them. With IFHE you can do massive Damage on Cruisers and BBs per salvo. AFT pushes your range to 13.2...and CE is good for reposition and disengagement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
174 posts
Vor 1 Stunde, Lea_Flamma sagte:

Myoko is a completely different story, with great guns, good AP and okay range. Also 4 launchers with 10km torpedoes. This ship is a great kiter, although gun placement is somewhat awkward, forcing you to show lots of broadside if you want to use more than the rear two turrets. But even here I fail to fully grasp, what to do exactly.

 

- I pick an island as my waifu, but that mostly ends with poor firing angles due to poor shell arcs on this baby.

- Angling does not help much, as I found myself being citadeled from all the possible angles.

- She is slow as hell in turning, to the point a good CV player has a 100% chance of torping you with each strike.

- CV overall is a terrible enemy to have, I found myself running with Defensive AA as well as the Fighter all the time.

- AP is good, but a BB is still a nightmare to pen.

Myoko is IMO one of the best tier 7 cruisers. As you found out it's good for kiting. So this is how I play it:

  • forget islands this is an open water cruiser which shoots enemys at more or less max range.
  • it's an HE spammer. AP only at broadside showing targets (cruisers) preferably below 12km. If you use it HE only you're doing still fine in it.
  • she's in fact fast turning for a cruiser with less than 6 seconds rudder shift time when using B-hull and rudder shift time module. Don't understand why people struggle with dodging torps.
  • dodging shells is a key skill to survive in it:
    • as long as detected react with WASD hack: speed changes (3/4 to full) and direction changes. 
    • if more than 2 ships shoot at you same time try to go stealth. Otherwise turn on super WASD hack mode :)
    • as soon as you see the enemy shooting you need to show less broadside and sharpen your angling.
    • when you're doing about 1kk potential damage taken on a regular basis (doesn't mean every game) you're doing it right.
  • don't forget to send torps at chasing enemys. if they are 13km away thats fine cause they travel the missing 3km towards your 10km torps.
  • she's one of the best IJN AA tier for tier. I hardly struggle with CVs. Use def AA and fighter consumable and reinforcing AA side (but unskilled). If you still think it's not enough get the slot 3 AA module for +2 flakbursts instead of aiming mod. (I switched it out again). And yes if a CV wants you dead you are dead when you drive around alone.

 

My advised setup: 

slot 3: AA flakburst mod (Flak is the only strong side of AA on IJN) or aiming mod

slot 4: stearing gear mod. Myoko is not an island hugger so you don't need acceleration.

 

Captain: 

PM or PT (PT if you think it's really that important as most cruiser players think)

EM you need the turret travers

DE you want the fire starting abilities on your HE which ist >90% of what you should shoot

CE as for any cruiser

AR as you want that up to 20% reload buff.

SI for more consumables (and +1 heal in T9+10)

Those 15 Points are solid for any IJN cruiser tier 5 or higher.

You have 4 points left to do whatever you like. AFT or manual AA are not worth it on IJN CA, so I would recommend a 3point + 1point skill. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
77 posts
1,978 battles

Yeah, the only 10 point cpatain for USA I have is the Arsenal one, Doe or something. And he has the better Expert Loader and Marksman, which I would rather see on a ship that will use AP more. Atlanta has already insane turret traverse, so those two would be a waste. And she seems like in need of a dedicated Captain, which is why I am training one right now.

 

I am aware of the WSAD hacks, being a Destroyer player first and foremost. Although I might have to change the Engine mod for the Stear mod. Faster turning seems to be of higher importance.

 

My Atlanta build I was going for was:

PT > AR > DE > CE > IFHE > AFA > PM although am romancing with the idea of dropping DE for BFA. I would like to focus her on DD splashing and forcing fires on BB as well as providing AA fire for the team. I found working in tandem with someone else works best for me. Either a DD or a BB, although a group of Cruisers can work as well, but hard to find in random battles.

 

Myoko is using my future Zao captain, so she will have:

EL > AR > SI > CE > RL > DE > EM

but am sitting on EL > AR > SI for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
174 posts
Vor 1 Stunde, Lea_Flamma sagte:

Myoko is using my future Zao captain, so she will have:

EL > AR > SI > CE > RL > DE > EM

but am sitting on EL > AR > SI for now.

  • Expert Loader? On a ship you should use 95% HE?
  • EM as last skill while having turrets that can't stay on target when turning the ship which will be a problem up to and in tier 10? This is absolute basic must have skill for IJN cruiser, trust me.
  • SI before DE which is more ore less useless until tier 9? And even then 1 more heal don't save you if you're not doing it right with the ship. Cause you're taking AP damage from which you can't heal back much anyways.
    (SI for CV protection? I see CVs maybe every 3rd game these days. T6 can be dealt easily. T8 CVs means you should drive around alone)

 

So you should go in following order: PM/PT/EL(?) => EM(!!!) => DE => CE => AR => SI => RL (if you then still think you need radio location)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
77 posts
1,978 battles
2 godziny temu, Lea_Flamma napisał:

Myoko is using my future Zao captain, so she will have:

That is why. I want the EL on Zao in the future. Because he is very good at flanking, having quite the impressive concealment. Which means I can pop AP from HE in so much less time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-RM-]
Beta Tester
2,093 posts
8,451 battles
1 hour ago, Skurios_Volleys_Fan said:
  • Expert Loader? On a ship you should use 95% HE?

Expert loader is a great skill on the Zao. Railguns with great accuracy and 12 shells with good AP damage and penetration coupled with great stealth means you can often shave off large chunks of HP or straight up delete most cruisers you will face. Not to mention the AP will outdamage HE if you have broadside BB's at around 12 km away from you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[AAO]
Players
1,546 posts
20,653 battles
22 hours ago, Lea_Flamma said:

Myoko is using my future Zao captain, so she will have:

EL > AR > SI > CE > RL > DE > EM

EL is great on the Zao. NOT worth giving up PT though. Really really isn't.

 

edited: I accidentally originally quoted from a quote 1 post below the original (see answer below).

May historians blame an acute lack of coffee and brain.

My apologies to Skurios.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
77 posts
1,978 battles

I am honestly not sold on EM on an IJN Cruiser. It turns the terriawful traverse to a terrible one. If you need to quickly turn the turrets, you might as well turn the entire ship and either engage or flee, depending on the enemy. You should be doing the jumping on people, which means your guns are pointed in the right direction. I feel like AR is much more important, as it will cut the reload by a lot, making those sweet guns that much more deadly. EL is cool, but not a priority pick for me.

 

DE is also a questionable choice, on the IJN at least. Their reload times are just so long... Atlanta benefits from it a lot. I was considering grabbing Superintendent and Vigilance or perhaps Basic Fireing Training instead for the IJN girls. Haven't decided yet. Running DE for now, but I feel like I am wasting points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-RM-]
Beta Tester
2,093 posts
8,451 battles
19 minutes ago, Lea_Flamma said:

I am honestly not sold on EM on an IJN Cruiser. It turns the terriawful traverse to a terrible one. If you need to quickly turn the turrets, you might as well turn the entire ship and either engage or flee, depending on the enemy. You should be doing the jumping on people, which means your guns are pointed in the right direction. I feel like AR is much more important, as it will cut the reload by a lot, making those sweet guns that much more deadly. EL is cool, but not a priority pick for me.

 

DE is also a questionable choice, on the IJN at least. Their reload times are just so long... Atlanta benefits from it a lot. I was considering grabbing Superintendent and Vigilance or perhaps Basic Fireing Training instead for the IJN girls. Haven't decided yet. Running DE for now, but I feel like I am wasting points.

EM means you can keep your guns on target even when manuvering. And it is a great quality of life change, so definetely recommended.

 

As for DE, remember the IJN cruisers are alpha strike predators. Fire 1 volley, dodge, set fire, target repairs, fire another, set more fires. So again DE helps in that a lot (and on the Atlanta, basic firing training actually gets you more fires per minute than DE).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[N0RSE]
Players
175 posts
14,318 battles

You will sacrifice a lot of of dpm if you leave out DE (fires are important part of dmg in a ijn cruiser)  and EM (makes it more difficult to deal dmg on the move, and that's what you mainly do in these ships). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
77 posts
1,978 battles
12.03.2019 o 17:55, ollonborre napisał:

EM means you can keep your guns on target even when manuvering. And it is a great quality of life change, so definetely recommended.

 

As for DE, remember the IJN cruisers are alpha strike predators. Fire 1 volley, dodge, set fire, target repairs, fire another, set more fires. So again DE helps in that a lot (and on the Atlanta, basic firing training actually gets you more fires per minute than DE).

I am not quite sure, what you mean with Alpha Strike Predators. I feel like IJN should be the one picking a fight. It is true, that poping a fire on someone to force the R on cooldown and then putting a new one is a welcome sight. I did notice that durign a sharp turn the guns start to stear off target, which can be a nummer. For now I have been timing manouvers so as to have all pointed at the target during the end of reload. Worked so far, might test it with EM to see if it is necessary for me.

 

Overall been playing some more, both Cruisers and Battleships and started to drop some Destroyer habits. Went from barely 40k damage during an operation to 150k with the same ship. So that's an improvement imho... Also Randoms with Myoko and Atlanta are much more managable now. Still find it tricky to pick my positioning early in the game, sometimes putting myself into a position where it is just a matter of 'when' for me to die. Being rushed by BBs when hiding behind an island is a terrible thing to be the victim of. No idea how to play around that. When to retreat and when to stay and fire. It just feels, that every time when I try to flee, I expose broadside to someone and say "bye bye" to most of my hp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
77 posts
1,978 battles

Right, so with more games and practice I managed to grab a better hold on the whole "Cruiser behaviour" idea. Also hit 10 points on Atlanta and grabbed myself IFHE as the first 4 point skill. Must say the damage increase is quite prominent, from 1k per salvo to 3-4k on the same ship. The ship still suffers a lot when placed against Tier IX foes, but... Once one learns to play around the pitiful gun range (been outranged by DDs a few times), it is much more manageble.

 

Myoko is a completely different vessel, I must say. She needs to be more sneaky, more tactical in her gameplay. I still fail to use AP against BBs, but Cruisers are just so fun to Citadel. I am still struggling to find a decent way of dealing with CVs and DDs in her though. Even with the stearing modification, torpedoes are super deadly. Might actually adapt the build to grab Vigilance. So something like...

Tier 1: PT, EL

Tier 2: EM, AR

Tier 3: SI, DE, VI

Tier 4: CE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×