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sgtmarple

CV- The DD scourge (DDs need Nerfs)

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Since the reduction of the Air dectability there has been a real scourge of DDs. Now they know they can rush through the map without detection and attack from behind, mostly the Cvs. I have 4-5 DDs almost every match and I know that at least one will rush through. The problem is most Cvs are quite defensless. Our rocket planes in Tier 4-8 are a joke and the DBs RNG is just laughable. Seriously WG , I went down to almost 1 second just to see the bombs cross path and land on both sides of the DD while the bomb sight was perfectly in the middle...thanks btw. Once the DD is in Torp Range it is game over, one salvo is enough. Even if you detect them in time it is minutes over minutes of rockets and DB attacks that  any monkey with half a brain sitting on a dildo can dodge. Plane attacks are so damn predectible and easy to dodge especially in a DD.

Normally I try to travel with a couple of BBs near by but good luck keeping up if you are not in a JPN CV.

 

Right now CV is once again in a shitty spot. AA hasn't been balanced, we are still blind as a bat. We bring nothing really usefull to team. We don't spot, we don't do nice Alpha damage. Aside from US DBs we don't do DOT damage and now we get fraked by DDs without even knowing. And 8.2.0 brings another nerf. Seriously can anybody tell me CVs! What are they good for?

 

Yesterday playing EvE Online , roughly 40 people asked me about WoWs my answer was "Don't play CV, infact, stay away from it all together. EvE has a better Ship simulation that WoWs."  At least there I know what Carriers are good for. 

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There is a large difference between low tier (4+6) games and tier 8+ games due to radar profileration and CVs gaining a lot of power from tier 8.

 

Took the liberty to check your profile since you have so few battles (sorry sometimes smurfs post this stuff).

You talk about tier 8 but dont even own a tier 8,and you play 75% CV.

Also, while your overall winrate is not good, your winrate on Ryujo and Hermes i very good with pretty average damage. 

Try playing the other classes including DDs for a bit if you think they are OP. I think you will find they have different problems (spotted dd = dead dd at anything over tier 5) :fish_book:

 

A bit of history: tier 4 CVs has always been DD food due to slowness and extremely weak damage output (since no ships on that tier have any AA) . That however changes as CVs gain power with tiers while dds basically remain the same.

From tier 6 DDs used to be food for CVs and at tier 8+10 they still are post-rework. I havnt played tier 6 CVs post-rework.

Also currently a lot of DD players will have migrated to mid-tiers to sealclub, partially due to the exeter missions, partially since DD play in tier 8-10 is completely facked from too many radars and CVs, the reverse of what you complain about.

 

More experienced CV players here can probably give you better tips, but basically:

IJN rocket planes are indeed terrible vs DDs untill you get the tier 8 upgrade, then they are only mediocre.

TBs are the main dmg dealer of IJN and with practice you can also hit dds with them.

Dont bother using IJN DBs on DDs, they have AP bombs and basically overpen the dd for neglectible dmg even if they hit.

USN DBs are very good vs DD while i havnt yet tried Royal navy yet.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Yesterday playing EvE Online , roughly 40 people asked me about WoWs my answer was "Don't play CV, infact, stay away from it all together. EvE has a better Ship simulation that WoWs."  At least there I know what Carriers are good for. 

 

I do sometimes outlandish comparisons but comparing WW2 Carrier to Carrier from the year 23.236 A.D.

 

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Edited for moderation - Teob
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So is this a new tactic, ignore the caps, and sail around the edges and hunt the CV's down? Hey maybe even I could do that, I think all DD's cruisers should get the Ashashio's 16km torps, sure would be nice to have those on a fast firing US DD.

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Vor 1 Stunde, GulvkluderGuld sagte:

There is a large difference between low tier (4+6) games and tier 8+ games due to radar profileration and CVs gaining a lot of power from tier 8.

 

Took the liberty to check your profile since you have so few battles (sorry sometimes smurfs post this stuff).

You talk about tier 8 but dont even own a tier 8,and you play 75% CV.

Also, while your overall winrate is not good, your winrate on Ryujo and Hermes i very good with pretty average damage. 

Try playing the other classes including DDs for a bit if you think they are OP. I think you will find they have different problems (spotted dd = dead dd at anything over tier 5) :fish_book:

 

A bit of history: tier 4 CVs has always been DD food due to slowness and extremely weak damage output (since no ships on that tier have any AA) . That however changes as CVs gain power with tiers while dds basically remain the same.

From tier 6 DDs used to be food for CVs and at tier 8+10 they still are post-rework. I havnt played tier 6 CVs post-rework.

Also currently a lot of DD players will have migrated to mid-tiers to sealclub, partially due to the exeter missions, partially since DD play in tier 8-10 is completely facked from too many radars and CVs, the reverse of what you complain about.

 

More experienced CV players here can probably give you better tips, but basically:

IJN rocket planes are indeed terrible vs DDs untill you get the tier 8 upgrade, then they are only mediocre.

TBs are the main dmg dealer of IJN and with practice you can also hit dds with them.

Dont bother using IJN DBs on DDs, they have AP bombs and basically overpen the dd for neglectible dmg even if they hit.

USN DBs are very good vs DD while i havnt yet tried Royal navy yet.

 

 

 

I am excatly the player WG tried to attract with the CV rework, I've been on the CV grind since 8.0.1. So basically grinded CV after the CV rework. I'm going excatly down the path WG wants new player to go. I have Tier 8 expierence because I get uptierd into T8 with my T6 Carrier and since I miss all other CVs that older player have its either Rijuo or Ranger, last I don't have. So yeah I play T6 to T8 with a T6 JPN CV and the expierence is horrid.

 

Dispite that I would say I have alot more expierence with the reworked CVs than most vets here since as you said I play them 99 % of the time.

 

AP Bombs are actually good against almost every ship it only depends how close you drop them. Get it under a second of drop time and you will Citadel BBs and Cruisers left and right and blow DDs up. However, it is extremly hard to hit DDs since the Plane patern is so obvious. If you have been bombed once in a DD you know excatly what to look for and it is very easy to avoid. Rockets are a joke and Torps lol.

 

No, the primary damage are AP bombs for JPN, as I said, drop them with less than 1 second (red countdown) and you can avoid overpen and hit the Citadel. Torps in comparison are laughable, especially with the extremly low flood chance. With AP Bombs I can Alpha up to 12k with two Citadels from a very low drop , that will make every Cruiser turn arround. Ranger overall is in a better position yes, but I don't have it. Its 68k of xp which is hell playing with the Langley. Hermes was a waste of time, only once did I make a 4x Citadel on a Cruiser with their DB. But the Bomb RNG is so whack even if you have a perfect run you never hit with full damage. 

Rockets share the same problem. You have the perfect sight and RNG ruins your day.

 

I have yet to understand where WG wants the CV player to be. As a new player expierence it isn't good. With DDs 4+ in almost every game it isn't getting better.

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8 hours ago, AnEvilJoke said:

 

I do sometimes outlandish comparisons but comparing WW2 Carrier to Carrier from the year 23.236 A.D.

 

I don't compare the types, only that EvE has a very good understanding what role every ship needs to have. Carrier is a Carrier, you better take care of your fighters and bombers, call them back, switch targets etc or they go boom and you are useless. In WoWs they go boom all the time and if they get to attack , RNG , whacky UI , slow targeting times screws you over.

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4 minutes ago, sgtmarple said:

I don't compare the types, only that EvE has a very good understanding what role every ship needs to have. Carrier is a Carrier, you better take care of your fighters and bombers, call them back, switch targets etc or they go boom and you are useless. In WoWs they go boom all the time and if they get to attack , RNG , whacky UI , slow targeting times screws you over.

 

You just slave them to the carrier leader group leader while watching the the battle in 1/10th time dilation for the next 6 hours...

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@OP Huh? Not a single dd managed to ambush me since IDK second hotpatch? Sure its not positioning issues?

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CV hunting in a DD is the WORST DD tactic ever!

  • it takes a long time where you do NOTHING 
  • You are alone and an easy target
  • a CV that found his start engine button is a hard target
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2 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

 

Dispite that I would say I have alot more expierence with the reworked CVs than most vets here since as you said I play them 99 % of the time.

A bold claim.

 

I would say that this supposed DD problem only really exist on tier 4. If a DD rushes you down on tier 6+ then either you have positioned really poorly or the rest of the team is pretty much dead.

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If a DD is hunting you from the other side of the map,

thank him, he is doing a big favor to your team.

Because a CV hunting DD is even worse than a 20km shima captain...

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Some dds need nerfing or balancing to use a better word. Not much but tinkering is overdue, the fact that no dd captains are swarming the forums (like they did) complaining tells a lot. They are in a good spot rn. Overall I find they have become the dominant and deciding factors in games again be it for good or bad. This is my honest answer. Could be a skill issue as it's mentioned but I imagine that no ship should have clear advantage over an other, despite this I think the CVs are not in that terrible a spot although more balancing is needed there too. They are a very difficult type to balance so patience it will be done hopefully. Do other ships need balancing? ofc. The Russian ones. All.

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@sgtmarpletake note of the CV is detected symbol. If you are not being spotted from the air by another CV's planes, it's probably a DD hunting you. Then keep your CV moving whilst you try to hunt it down. Use the planes detected sixth sense to get an idea of where you need to find the needle in a haystack.

Don't park your CV in predictable places, such as cowardly BB alley on strait. That way you can waste more of the CV hunting DD's time, and hopefully the match has already swung in your favour.

I'd agree that the spotting from air nerf in 0.8.0.3 was probably too much, but don't expect even a partial reversion. WG will probably tweak something else instead.

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Yep after 10+ k battles when i see ship detected light up in my cv i usually have a pretty good idea where the dd ll be sculking about...

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I would be lying if i said you are right.

I disagree, DDs are certainly to be dealt with. The only CV that has problems doing so is the IJN line. As long as you play the USN line and with a bit of experience you will deal with any DD easily.

DDs don't really need nerfs, IJN CV line needs a buff or a mesns to deal with DDs more effectively like USN.

 

I'm sure @El2aZeR

 can maybe add something if he's not tired yet of all those posts.

 

But DDs don't need a buff and if you play correctly are certainly spotable.

Yesterday i had some fantastic games again, 3 Kraken and a few 6 kill and one 7 kill battles in my CV. Half of these killd are usually DDs

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7 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

I would be lying if i said you are right.

I disagree, DDs are certainly to be dealt with. The only CV that has problems doing so is the IJN line. As long as you play the USN line and with a bit of experience you will deal with any DD easily.

DDs don't really need nerfs, IJN CV line needs a buff or a mesns to deal with DDs more effectively like USN.

 

I'm sure @El2aZeR

 can maybe add something if he's not tired yet of all those posts.

 

But DDs don't need a buff and if you play correctly are certainly spotable.

Yesterday i had some fantastic games again, 3 Kraken and a few 6 kill and one 7 kill battles in my CV. Half of these killd are usually DDs

Haku rockets are actually solid for once, but again hampered by long "arming" distance. Earlier IJN CVs could use some help against DDs though. Preferable fix would be ammo selection mid game or even pre battle akin to USN RTS CV, but that would cause server wide bluescreen on CV players according to WG:cap_old:

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7 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Since the reduction of the Air dectability there has been a real scourge of DDs. Now they know they can rush through the map without detection and attack from behind, mostly the Cvs. I have 4-5 DDs almost every match and I know that at least one will rush through.  The problem is most Cvs are quite defensless.

A DD that goes CV hunting is doing it wrong, though. And if they get the opportunity to not only do that but do that successfully, then it means that both the CV's team and the CV itself have mispositioned. And even then, most DDs can still be killed by same-tier CV as long as they get spotted early enough (it takes time and wastes CV's efforts in a sub-optimal manner but it's not impossible) - so the CV has not only mispositioned but also most likely failed at scouting.

 

7 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Our rocket planes in Tier 4-8 are a joke and the DBs RNG is just laughable. Seriously WG , I went down to almost 1 second just to see the bombs cross path and land on both sides of the DD while the bomb sight was perfectly in the middle...thanks btw. Once the DD is in Torp Range it is game over, one salvo is enough. Even if you detect them in time it is minutes over minutes of rockets and DB attacks that  any monkey with half a brain sitting on a dildo can dodge. Plane attacks are so damn predectible and easy to dodge especially in a DD.

Normally I try to travel with a couple of BBs near by but good luck keeping up if you are not in a JPN CV.

You don't need to keep up with your teammates. You should be able to catch up to them, however. Ships don't go steaming through the map in a straight line at full speed for the entire match - and as long as you're close enough, when you spot the DD, your teammates will go after the little bugger. Nobody likes to have an enemy DD behind their butts AND the DD in the back can usually be attacked while exposing yourself to less danger than you need to to effectively attack enemies in front - so even the bad, cowardly players are likely to jump at the opportunity to farm themselves a DD. You just need to be close enough and not die too quickly.

 

7 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Right now CV is once again in a shitty spot. AA hasn't been balanced, we are still blind as a bat. We bring nothing really usefull to team.

Speak for yourself, I guess?

 

7 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

We don't spot, we don't do nice Alpha damage. Aside from US DBs we don't do DOT damage and now we get fraked by DDs without even knowing. And 8.2.0 brings another nerf. Seriously can anybody tell me CVs! What are they good for?

IJN torps actually do bring some DoT to the table, AP bombs are a b*tch to use but they can deal some alpha here and there (though you don't get many strikes against cruisers with good AA...) and the spotting capability of CVs is still really good. Yes, the planes are so short-sighted that it's not even funny but you still have the ability to put these planes in places and approach enemies from angles no ship could. This is, in fact, the scariest thing to enemy DDs - you can give your friendly DDs vision advantage, help your team get extra vision on an enemy DD that tries to disengage etc. CVs might not be as powerful as spotters as they once were but there are things they can do impossible to any other spotter. Additionally, CVs absolutely excel at providing vision of big, highly visible targets that hang  out in the back - the enemy BBs and CVs that normally would stay invisible or just appear when firing or that crippled BB that keeps their guns silent to wait for the heal to come and let them print a new ship... a little bit of spotting can make the difference between a dead BB and a BB on half hp in two minutes. It's not much but it's honest work :Smile-_tongue:

 

 

 

 

In the end... I won't say there are no problems with CVs right now but, frankly, being vulnerable to DDs that spent half the game getting to you without being stopped by either you or your team and then find you when you're too far from the friendly team to get their help... it really doesn't seem like a serious problem. This is a scenario that just shouldn't happen. The DD is making a mistake and not only failing to punish that mistake but actually losing a CV to it is, in turn, a very serious misplay on the part of the green team. It's like seeing a Minotaur sail into the cap, smoke up and proceed to kill friendly DDs in the area - DDs get slaughtered, yes, but there's that distinct feeling that something in this situation went wrong on a much more fundamental level than Minotaur being OP in gun brawling with DDs :Smile_teethhappy:

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Only read the first page. Would remind you that we are not post cv rework, we are mid cv rework. I’m sure lower tier will get some love if needed. 

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5 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Dispite that I would say I have alot more expierence with the reworked CVs than most vets here since as you said I play them 99 % of the time.

And yet you have a whole 17 games in a DD the majority of which is in the Clemson, so you have barely any experience playing one. If you want to compare it to Eve then a DD is that Intie that managed to get close and lock you down with warp scrams, or a bait Maller, except they can apply damage rather than sitting there waiting for everyone to cyno in. But basically once they get close you're screwed. As others have said, if a DD has wasted all it's time hunting you down it's either doing you and your team a favour or your positioning is wrong. Why you would compare WoW's to Eve is beyond me, you can customise classes so much more in Eve, there is no comparison.

 

And no, saying you have T8 experience is wrong, you've played against T8's never been a T8 where, from what I've seen CV's are still quite strong. Despite all that, and you claiming they need nerfs because they hurt your poor CV, you are doing extremely well in your CV's, in fact a magnitude better than your skills in other ships, so what you are basically asking for is for CV's to be omnipotent so you can do even better.

 

I've noticed a trend with those that are screaming about nerfing other ships, they have are generally poor players in other ship classes, then magically start doing well in CV's and all of a sudden now it's more balanced they're doing poorly again as they can't adapt because they don't have the experience. 

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8 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Since the reduction of the Air dectability there has been a real scourge of DDs. Now they know they can rush through the map without detection and attack from behind, mostly the Cvs. I have 4-5 DDs almost every match and I know that at least one will rush through. The problem is most Cvs are quite defensless. Our rocket planes in Tier 4-8 are a joke and the DBs RNG is just laughable. Seriously WG , I went down to almost 1 second just to see the bombs cross path and land on both sides of the DD while the bomb sight was perfectly in the middle...thanks btw. Once the DD is in Torp Range it is game over, one salvo is enough. Even if you detect them in time it is minutes over minutes of rockets and DB attacks that  any monkey with half a brain sitting on a dildo can dodge. Plane attacks are so damn predectible and easy to dodge especially in a DD.

Normally I try to travel with a couple of BBs near by but good luck keeping up if you are not in a JPN CV.

 

Right now CV is once again in a shitty spot. AA hasn't been balanced, we are still blind as a bat. We bring nothing really usefull to team. We don't spot, we don't do nice Alpha damage. Aside from US DBs we don't do DOT damage and now we get fraked by DDs without even knowing. And 8.2.0 brings another nerf. Seriously can anybody tell me CVs! What are they good for?

 

Yesterday playing EvE Online , roughly 40 people asked me about WoWs my answer was "Don't play CV, infact, stay away from it all together. EvE has a better Ship simulation that WoWs."  At least there I know what Carriers are good for. 

I played my Shokaku a couple times and twice in the same game an enemy Hatsuharu attempted to break through to sink me and basically the only way I could defend myself is by using torp planes.

I think that many DD players know this by now and attempt to sink me. I managed to sink both of them eventually because they potatoed at some point but it's totally no fun gameplay here :Smile_sceptic:

 

There are basically 4 DDs each team constantly. I think it's because of the Exeter missions, even though IJN DDs are not a vast portion of the country the DDs belonged to. And CVs are actaully hard to find when you need any plane kills.

 

I never played Eve, so can't comment on that.

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42 minutes ago, eliastion said:

A DD that goes CV hunting is doing it wrong, though. And if they get the opportunity to not only do that but do that successfully, then it means that both the CV's team and the CV itself have mispositioned. And even then, most DDs can still be killed by same-tier CV as long as they get spotted early enough (it takes time and wastes CV's efforts in a sub-optimal manner but it's not impossible) - so the CV has not only mispositioned but also most likely failed at scouting.

As I described above, I think DDs have it too easy vs at least the IJN CVs right now and because of this I see a lot of them yoloing to enemy spawn to find the enemy CV.

I attached some screenshots of the game I described above and frankly I believe my positioning was not all that wrong.

 

Note that as of 8.1, rpf works on carriers (I botched my caps post reset and didn't bother paying for a reset when I soon get a free one, so I just left it a is) so it's easier for me to find them, but this situation is just not ideal and not good for gameplay overal.

It's too easy for DDs to evade carrier attack (at least from IJN CV due to the nature of its dive bombers having AP instead of HE bombs) and it's bad for the game.

 

After 2 of the enemy DDs attempted to yolo towards my CV, they threw the game and lost even though they previously held all 3 caps. There's not enough deterrent for DDs to do this kind of behavior right now.

 

WG might as well significantly reduce rocket bomber range and increase their effectiveness vs DDs to pre-nerf levels or something, I don't really use these rocket planes on my Shokaku for anything really useful anymore anyway (except maybe dropping a fighter or waiting for my torp planes to respawn because I potatoed somehow).

Spoiler

910691598_DD1shot-19_03.09_12_52.55-0197.thumb.jpg.740f3796da0029005a5b05dc2d89700e.jpg233116507_DD1shot-19_03.09_12_53.10-0847.thumb.jpg.7a42f98f5841e6fa55e9ac51632c6e83.jpg221368356_DD2shot-19_03.09_12_57.16-0822.thumb.jpg.d410c13d47c8837ff0d376ca1c0b0efc.jpg

 

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37 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

WG might as well significantly reduce rocket bomber range and increase their effectiveness vs DDs to pre-nerf levels or something, I don't really use these rocket planes on my Shokaku for anything really useful anymore anyway (except maybe dropping a fighter or waiting for my torp planes to respawn because I potatoed somehow).

Or remove IJN rockets altogether and replace them with small HE bombs. Bonus points for historical accuracy

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Vor 50 Minuten, NothingButTheRain sagte:

I played my Shokaku a couple times and twice in the same game an enemy Hatsuharu attempted to break through to sink me and basically the only way I could defend myself is by using torp planes.

I think that many DD players know this by now and attempt to sink me. I managed to sink both of them eventually because they potatoed at some point but it's totally no fun gameplay here :Smile_sceptic:

 

There are basically 4 DDs each team constantly. I think it's because of the Exeter missions, even though IJN DDs are not a vast portion of the country the DDs belonged to. And CVs are actaully hard to find when you need any plane kills.

 

I never played Eve, so can't comment on that.

Don't play Shokaku until they buff it. You need to rely to much on your team and can'r effectively support against a DD if the DD knows what he is doing.

WG will surely come up with a solution once individual ship balancing begins.

 

You can try rockets but it takes alot of practice and skillful use to really damage a DD enough.

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