HVAR vs Tiny Tim and CV captain build

[elblancogringo]

Hello 

Today I unlocked the Lexington, and I have a few questions.

1- Is the stock Lex playable or  should I spend free exp to directly unlock some modules? If it's better, what would be the best order to unlock new modules? Planes before hull? which planes?

2- I would like to know your opinion on the type of attack aircraft rockets I should use. Some people told me HVAR are the way to go as they can reliably damage destroyers. Other people told me I should attack destroyers with HE bombers, therefore I should use Tiny Tims which are very good against cruisers and BBs. What are you guys using?

3- May I ask you about the captain build you're using, and in which order to spend points? Are the captain build identical to IJN CVs or should I aim to other skills depending on the nation?

 

Thanks a lot, and have fun playing.

Cheers.

[loppantorkel]

I upgraded rockets last and I still barely use the. I've just tried Tiny Tim a few times before changing to HVAR.  Still prefer bombs and especially torps. I think I focused captain points on bombs and plane armour, but I'm not sure.

 

Tldr: bombs and torps

[Aotearas]

Shame the IFHE skill doen't work on rockets/HE bombs ... that would be fun.

 

 

[Beastofwar]

42 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

 

1- Is the stock Lex playable or  should I spend free exp to directly unlock some modules? If it's better, what would be the best order to unlock new modules? Planes before hull? which planes?

Stock playable, but upgraded aircraft have more hitpoints which is important when being thrown in +2 tier matches. I would say the aircraft you use most are logically the  first to upgrade. It is my opinion torpedo bombers are the main damage dealers of a CV. The ship itself has enough AA + fighter consumable to not need an upgrade hull at all, it kills all attacking aircraft when stock. It is literally packed with dozens of AA guns per side. Maybe with the upgrade it survives for longer when being shot at by surface ships, but then you will often die anyway.

 

Ship upgrade slots  have important features too, don't forget them. I gave my divebombers a ship upgrade because they spend most time right in the middle of the stongest AA (aura)

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2- I would like to know your opinion on the type of attack aircraft rockets I should use. Some people told me HVAR are the way to go as they can reliably damage destroyers. Other people told me I should attack destroyers with HE bombers, therefore I should use Tiny Tims which are very good against cruisers and BBs. What are you guys using?

I use Tiny Tims against all ships, including DD. If your aimin reticule  is maximum narrow you can hit a DD with at least 1 Tiny Tim which has a damage potential of 5000 a pop, when you hit both 10K and most DD do not have much more health then that.  Sadly they never really take that much damage - modules seem to soak up damage - but it does hurt them. Wrecks their engine, rudder, torp tubes, main guns  and so on. Could really save a friendly DD which then cannot get torped or shot. Smaller HVAR wil hit more often, may cause the same amount of damage but do not give the frightning peak damages of Tiny Tims that have some DD chased out of the cap.

 

I have read about the divebombers too - US divebombers  have usable HE bombs against DD allright  - but only consider attacking DD with it if i was underway to another target and then stumble on a DD. The most perfect target for divebombers is ofcourse a DD sitting still in smoke but visible due to some detection, the agile evading ones are easier to hit with rockets in my opinion.

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3- May I ask you about the captain build you're using, and in which order to spend points? Are the captain build identical to IJN CVs or should I aim to other skills depending on the nation?

 

Be sure to spend points in aircraft hitpoints and AA resistance. More speed is more attacks = more DPM. I use torpedo acceleration too  as without it too many ships evade my torpedo's.

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Thanks a lot, and have fun playing.

Cheers.

 

Have fun too :-)

[Tyrendian89]

4 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Shame the IFHE skill doen't work on rockets/HE bombs ... that would be fun.

 

 

but only for one half of the people involved...

[jss78]

I've had the habit of FreeXPing the improved planes for rework CV's. At least for the two plane types I anticipate using most. It's a continuous struggle to survive AA, and you want those improved speeds and/or HP.  Not my idea of fun to even try playing without.

 

For the same reason, I don't consider it fun to play without Survivability Expert and Aircraft Armor skills, so I tend to Elite XP a new CV captain to 10'ish points before ever taking the ship out of port.

 

Hull upgrade on the other hand tends to be pretty inconsequential, and I see no reason to FreeXP those.

[Panocek]

TiTs retain short "arming" distance, making them serviceable against DDs skilled enough to press P, unlike HVARs. They also are much more accurate and with extra pen, they can touch pretty much anything short of T10 CV deck.

 

Stock planes recently got hp buffs, so *need* for FreeExping them is lowered, though you might want top Dive Bombers, they carry two instead one bombs so you deliver 100% more Freedom. 

 

Skill wise, I run this build on my CVs or aim towards it

Shortening plane replacement, longer engine boost are no brainers, same with speed, more hp, plane armor. Aiming time I'm not so sure on rockets and torpedoes, but it helps with divebombers, USN bread and butter. Concealment isn't as vital as on IJN (TB), but it shortens reaction time nonetheless and enables you to hide floating city block of a carrier at 11.8km in Lady Lex case (with Concealment upgrade)

[black_falcon120]

I'm in the same position, literally unlocking the Lexington today :). Only difference is I have the halloween camo, so my grinding is faster.  I think it takes literally 100k to get all modules for her. I have a 10 point unallocated captain. I got into the best MM, but all my planes got swatted out of the sky so I kept having to afk for a few minutes mid game. 

 

But in addition to this, I need to know what modules I should be fitting on my Lexington? 

[Panocek]

Just now, black_falcon120 said:

I'm in the same position, literally unlocking the Lexington today :). Only difference is I have the halloween camo, so my grinding is faster.  I think it takes literally 100k to get all modules for her. 

 

But in addition to this, I need to know what modules I should be fitting on my Lexington? 

Tier 10 CV says hi - 152k exp and additional 10mil on top of already expensive 28mil for boat alone.

 

Modules... Two first are no brainers, on 3rd I run AA guns mod1 as extra aim time on rockets can prove fatal while on USN TB isn't that needed. Specific aircraft hp - dive bombers are USN bread and butter and due to their attack pattern they tend to stay within AA the most time, so they can't go wrong with more hp. I run concealment on all CVs while @El2aZeR is presumably going to give you sermon about FCM1 (+2 planes on deck) superiority

[black_falcon120]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Tier 10 CV says hi - 152k exp and additional 10mil on top of already expensive 28mil for boat alone.

 

Modules... Two first are no brainers, on 3rd I run AA guns mod1 as extra aim time on rockets can prove fatal while on USN TB isn't that needed. Specific aircraft hp - dive bombers are USN bread and butter and due to their attack pattern they tend to stay within AA the most time, so they can't go wrong with more hp. I run concealment on all CVs while @El2aZeR is presumably going to give you sermon about FCM1 (+2 planes on deck) superiority

What are the first 2 modules, I haven't been following the CV meta. 

[beercrazy]

Played quite a few games with the hvar and the tiny Tim's and come to conclusion the hvar are better

The tiny Tims are more forgiving as the aim reticule gets smaller but the rockets are so hit and miss its painful

The hvar do take some getting used to but once worked out can do massive damage especially to cruisers

 

As for the lex and spending free xp go for the dbs first as they are your primary damage dealers 

The strike aircraft are good for scouting at the start and when your at end game and shooting across map to hit that low health ship

 

The lex is a very good ship and is probably better than the midway for its tier but it don't +2mm very well

[elblancogringo]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

I run concealment on all CVs while @El2aZeR is presumably going to give you sermon about FCM1 (+2 planes on deck) superiority

What does +2 places on deck really mean?

Does it add 2 to the max number of all planes?

For example Enterprise would go from attack 18, DB 14, TB 14 to attack 20, DB 16, TB 16?

[Beastofwar]

8 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

I'm in the same position, literally unlocking the Lexington today :). Only difference is I have the halloween camo, so my grinding is faster.  I think it takes literally 100k to get all modules for her. I have a 10 point unallocated captain. I got into the best MM, but all my planes got swatted out of the sky so I kept having to afk for a few minutes mid game. 

 

But in addition to this, I need to know what modules I should be fitting on my Lexington? 

 

The only one i find difficult is even stronger AA ( i am pretty sure that is overkill unless fighting off 2 enemy CV that come for you simultaniously ) longer range secondary battery ( seems rediculous for a CV  but it can kill heavy damaged but undetected DD that pop up near your CV ) or giving some type aircraft longer time to aim. The latter i find useless and even killing since aircraft will be longer locked in a mode the can't freely move and evade FLAK.

[Beastofwar]

3 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

What does +2 places on deck really mean?

Does it add 2 to the max number of all planes?

For example Enterprise would go from attack 18, DB 14, TB 14 to attack 20, DB 16, TB 16?

 

New aircraft are added continiously at a low rate untill they are full capacity on deck. There is a bar running in which you can follow the progress of new aircraft spawning, a full bar is a new aircraft on deck. The +2 aircraft on deck is i think a report that returning aircraft are ready for use again. Repair is instant, but you may want to know aircraft have returned - were not shot down when escaping - and are ready again for use.

[Panocek]

Just now, black_falcon120 said:

What are the first 2 modules, I haven't been following the CV meta. 

The only ones affecting planes - returning aircraft speed and longer engine boost. But if you want AA/secondary survivability or smaller fire chance, by all means don't let me stop you

 

1 minute ago, elblancogringo said:

What does +2 places on deck really mean?

Does it add 2 to the max number of all planes?

For example Enterprise would go from attack 18, DB 14, TB 14 to attack 20, DB 16, TB 16?

Yep. And it cut down replenishment time by 5% so

 

Upgrade I'd consider vital on Saipan, as she have only 3 planes in reserve (9 total, 6 in air) by default. With upgrade she will have 5 planes waiting and that 5% on her massive replenishment time actually can be significant

[Xevious_Red]

54 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I use Tiny Tims against all ships, including DD. If your aimin reticule  is maximum narrow you can hit a DD with at least 1 Tiny Tim which has a damage potential of 5000 a pop, when you hit both 10K and most DD do not have much more health then that.  Sadly they never really take that much damage - modules seem to soak up damage

Its not because of modules, its because its literally impossible to cause 5k with 1 rocket to a DD.

 

The listed value (5400) is the damage if it does a citadel. Since DD dont have citadels you cant therefore do this much damage.

The maximum one rocket can do to a DD is 1/3 of the listed value, so 1800. Two rockets therefore is 3600.

 

Since the HE bombs (listed damage 9200) do 3066 per bomb to a DD (and upgraded lexington drops 6) the bombs are better choice for hunting DD

[Beastofwar]

3 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Its not because of modules, its because its literally impossible to cause 5k with 1 rocket to a DD.

 

The listed value (5400) is the damage if it does a citadel. Since DD dont have citadels you cant therefore do this much damage.

The maximum one rocket can do to a DD is 1/3 of the listed value, so 1800. Two rockets therefore is 3600.

 

Since the HE bombs (listed damage 9200) do 3066 per bomb to a DD (and upgraded lexington drops 6) the bombs are better choice for hunting DD

 

If you can hit them with divebombing that is.....but thank you for the clear explanation why Tiny Tims don't do full damage.

 

They do wreck a lot of modules.....

[beercrazy]

Thought the +2 planes on deck means at start of match you have 2 extra planes available and the capacity is always 2 extra ie 18 fighters or take the mod and its 20 

I personally take this

[black_falcon120]

12 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Tier 10 CV says hi - 152k exp and additional 10mil on top of already expensive 28mil for boat alone.

 

Modules... Two first are no brainers, on 3rd I run AA guns mod1 as extra aim time on rockets can prove fatal while on USN TB isn't that needed. Specific aircraft hp - dive bombers are USN bread and butter and due to their attack pattern they tend to stay within AA the most time, so they can't go wrong with more hp. I run concealment on all CVs while @El2aZeR is presumably going to give you sermon about FCM1 (+2 planes on deck) superiority

Ah ok, thanks, is it a +2 planes on deck for all plane types?

[Xevious_Red]

1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

 

If you can hit them with divebombing that is.....but thank you for the clear explanation why Tiny Tims don't do full damage.

 

They do wreck a lot of modules.....

Start the dive (from behind is best), align during the dive - you can "twist" in mid air to get best alignment. Let go of bombs at very last moment (timer goes red for last second) and you'll get 1-3 hits with the occassional 4-6 lol derp.

[beercrazy]

20 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Start the dive (from behind is best), align during the dive - you can "twist" in mid air to get best alignment. Let go of bombs at very last moment (timer goes red for last second) and you'll get 1-3 hits with the occassional 4-6 lol derp.

Had loads of 10k plus hits with the dB on midway against dds

You get the good hits then get a - 1 rep report lol

[El2aZeR]

58 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I run concealment

 

 

On topic, currently TiTs are the way to go on the Midway as her HVARs have been nerfed to oblivion. Unsure if the same is the case on the Lexington.

[You_Overextended]

2 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

Hello 

Today I unlocked the Lexington, and I have a few questions.

1- Is the stock Lex playable or  should I spend free exp to directly unlock some modules? If it's better, what would be the best order to unlock new modules? Planes before hull? which planes?

2- I would like to know your opinion on the type of attack aircraft rockets I should use. Some people told me HVAR are the way to go as they can reliably damage destroyers. Other people told me I should attack destroyers with HE bombers, therefore I should use Tiny Tims which are very good against cruisers and BBs. What are you guys using?

3- May I ask you about the captain build you're using, and in which order to spend points? Are the captain build identical to IJN CVs or should I aim to other skills depending on the nation?

 

Thanks a lot, and have fun playing.

Cheers.

As someone who only recently started playing CV a lot both in PTS and on live server and is very close to unlocking the Lexington (you lucky one, you!):

1: Stock Lexington is painful to play with T10 MM. Like others have said, planes should be upgraded first. And I'd do it in this order: DB, TB, Rockets. You're pretty screwed if you can't kill things hitting your hull regardless of what hull you have, so that upgrade is kind of an afterthought, really, on the way to the next tier CV.

2: Tiny Tims have a good alpha strike but won't be as numerous. I suggest researching both TTS and HVAR, and then playing with them and figuring out what you like. I would personally go for TTS because I like the spicy alpha damage.

3: My ideal captain build, in order of priority: Air Supremacy, Improved Engines, Aircraft Armor, Sight Stabilization, Survivability Expert, Demolition Expert, Improved Engine Boost, and Torpedo Acceleration.

 

In my experience, hitting DDs with dive bombers can be frustratingly difficult, but once you get the hang of it and time your attacks to the rhythm of their cute attempts to dodge, you can easily erase them. Hitting DDs that abandon the objective to rush you is much easier than those that stick close to AA ships and do their jobs.

Battleships are particularly easy to drop. Align your bombers in such a way that they approach a BB from the nose.

If you encounter blobs, do a dirty run to break them apart with torpedo bombers. Bonus points if that helps your team shoot them. Once broken apart, rain fire and brimstone to your leisure.

 

People who know me in the forums might be a little surprised at this post of mine, but I decided that "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is a damn good philosophy to live by. Playing CV was also useful for my clanmates, as divisioning with me guarantees that they have support from the sky, as I tend to play it as a team player and consider farming to be a secondary objective.

[Prospect_b]

5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

On topic, currently TiTs are the way to go on the Midway as her HVARs have been nerfed to oblivion. Unsure if the same is the case on the Lexington.

Unlocked Lex on my NA account, cause reasons... :D

 

 

I ignore the Hvars, cause you want to hunt dds with the DBs, just like with the Midway. Use Tinies for cruisers & BBs. The DBs circle stays bigger than the Midway's, but it is quite workable. Also, Tinies aren't even that bad against DDs, especially the bigger ones.

 

1. Didn't play stock modules, and I highly recommend to freexp them if you can. Out of those seven games I was top tier once (AND BOY IS IT GLORIOUS :D).... You'll need every health you can have when uptiered.

 

3. Concealment (both captain & ship module) is a waste - take better things.

[Panocek]

3 hours ago, Saiyko said:

3. Concealment (both captain & ship module) is a waste - take better things.

YMMV - I find camo decked boat handy for following fleet and disengaging when said "fleet" gets submerged. Especially kek on Shokaku and her 9.8km concealment combined with her (almost) 36kts speed

 

Cut down concealment on planes shortens player reaction. Again, IJN TB benefits the most here, but so far it worked on USN planes as well, so yay for WG making actually balanced choice for once?