De Grasse weak without healing abilty ?

[Beastofwar]

I use T6 premiums mainly in operations for fun, XP and credits but noticed cruisers without heals ( and no heal provided in that Ops ) generally do very poorly against bots. It Coop that seems true also.

 

I recon in randoms or other modes you just don't go to the front lines to be shot at, deal long range damage and dance around incoming fire you do get. But the bots have different ways and completing objectives usually prevents you can do that standoff type of combat....need to push although you cannot be up front.

 

I used the Graf Spee, it did well, survive. I used the Dunkuerque it did well, survive. I use the de Grasse.....get wacked after 3 min in the Ops like a noob.

 

I'm sure i'm making a player mistake - never figured out why that Budyonny, Shcors ans Chapayev are/were so much loved either, but those are tech tree -  and and wondering if it should have a heal as it is a big ship....it seems to suffer without a heal.

 

What balances out it's lack of a heal anyway ? What is so good it should do without ? Duca de Aosta a bit the same thing....only it is a smaller ship. Why do premium Cruisers - without smoke - lack heals ?

 

 

[Chaos_Umbra]

Heal is the exception not the norm for cruisers, what you get is dpm, speed and Concealment, in Ops you need to use the maps to your advantage using terrain to get on the enemies flank and devastate the cruisers with AP, one of my favorite ships in tier 6 OPs is the Duca D'Aosta in some OPs I can rack up 50+ citadels.

 

The reason that the Leander gets heal is that it is made even more of citadel and had DD level armor, as for the Graff Spee it is somewhere between a Cruiser and a BB, so it has poor speed and concealment compared to other cruisers but gains armor, HP, large guns and heal it also has a higher fire duration on the ship compared to all other cruisers hence the need for the heal.

[Bear__Necessities]

Fast strong kiting cruiser. Heal is not needed. Islands are you’re friend and if possible keep a BB in between you and the enemy so they tank and you DPM then to death.

[Beastofwar]

I tried that - a sort of long range sniper equivalent - but for it to work the bots need another player target in their range as a sort of magnet to draw their fire.

 

If i open fire when they do not have another player in range they just return fire.....you can say a lot about bots but they often fire more accurate then human players, hard to dodge.

 

But you are right you simply cannot control an Ops when in such a flimpsy very big Cruiser without heals or smoke....if your teammates then do not perforn you're f*cked. Not used to that, those Cruisers with heals give room for taking some hits although not many more. Smoke cruisers are even easier/not so different from DD.

 

I guess non-heal, non-smoke cruisers are the hardest to use in game...at least for me.

 

Edit - last game i got it to perform on the level ( XP reward ) of Graf Spee, but it still did not survive the Ops.

 

 

[jss78]

I don't like cruisers a lot in operations, unless there's a steady access to a healing zone. If there is, they can be monstrously good. Basically comes down to the nature of the mission -- not going against 12 enemy ships, but many more. You want a big effective health pool.

 

Apart from operations, I LOVE de Grasse. One of those "perfect" cruisers to me, alongside the likes of Furutaka and Atago. Great speed, good guns, good torps, useful AA, fighter plane. Also feels more tanky than some other cruisers.

[Beastofwar]

6 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I don't like cruisers a lot in operations, unless there's a steady access to a healing zone. If there is, they can be monstrously good. Basically comes down to the nature of the mission -- not going against 12 enemy ships, but many more. You want a big effective health pool.

 

Apart from operations, I LOVE de Grasse. One of those "perfect" cruisers to me, alongside the likes of Furutaka and Atago. Great speed, good guns, good torps, useful AA, fighter plane. Also feels more tanky than some other cruisers.

 

Yeah i hate them for Ops too.....in random it's just a matter of learning to use them i guess, but then you don't have to push in time for objectives to be met so hard. You can support other ships more instead of whacking a lot of bots in little time.

 

But it will cause me to buy no other premium cruisers if they do not have heal or smoke. I regret that as i have very little premium Cruisers/Battlecruisers to use in Operations.

[That_Other_Nid]

I have Leander and Fiji for Ops. I occasionally use Myoko. De Grass is a great T-6 cruiser, which is not saying much with the T-6 matchmaking.

[lafeel]

Use your WASD keys dude, that's what you have them FOR after all.

 

The De Grasse does not need a heal, she does just fine as long as you use your head and her (considerable) agility.

 

Not that you could ever get back to full health with a cruiser heal anyway..

[Beastofwar]

37 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Use your WASD keys dude, that's what you have them FOR after all.

 

The De Grasse does not need a heal, she does just fine as long as you use your head and her (considerable) agility.

 

Not that you could ever get back to full health with a cruiser heal anyway..

 

Those bot operated Ishizuchi's have a taste for my De Grasse, even among other players that are slightly ahead with big BB. It is a very large cruiser, it is still easy to hit hard with smaller (low tier) battleship guns as is often the case in Operations. For the same reasons player Fuso's behave like beasts in those Ops......

 

Now hiding behind islands is not going to prevent the convoy sail too far to be able to go to the exit point without being overrrun with bots. Certainly not if you can't draw their fire to prevent them to fire into the merchants.....Became very obvious in a Ops with only Cruisers and Destroyers.

 

But i guess not every ship is suited for all modes/operation types. Would love for the not needed consumbables - you need those in randoms - to chose from more suitable ones for that Ops mode.

 

 

 

 

[lafeel]

4 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

*snip*

 

But i guess not very ship is suited for all modes/operation types.

 

 

 

 

Never played a op in my life and I could have told you that. Nor is every ship suited to every player.

[Tyrendian89]

it's not like the De Grasse, with its sheer speed to get to those juicy citadels, couldn't work in Operations...

Quote

but yeah a built in heal is certainly advantageous.

[CptBarney]

How does this compare to the la galissonaire? Im wondering since thats one of my fav cruisers (not sure why french vehicles get played the most by me) and i wouldn't mind a captain trainer at somepoint.

[Tyrendian89]

5 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

How does this compare to the la galissonaire? Im wondering since thats one of my fav cruisers (not sure why french vehicles get played the most by me) and i wouldn't mind a captain trainer at somepoint.

it's pretty much the same just better... better rate of fire, faster, bit more range - the one disadvantage to look out for is that the de Grasse has virtually no AA to speak of. That, and as a CL is really wants to have a captain with IFHE to be effective (like the LaGal), which isnt much use on the later french cruisers.

[Gnirf]

38 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

How does this compare to the la galissonaire? Im wondering since thats one of my fav cruisers (not sure why french vehicles get played the most by me) and i wouldn't mind a captain trainer at somepoint.

 

30 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

it's pretty much the same just better... better rate of fire, faster, bit more range - the one disadvantage to look out for is that the de Grasse has virtually no AA to speak of. That, and as a CL is really wants to have a captain with IFHE to be effective (like the LaGal), which isnt much use on the later french cruisers.

La Gal has the reload booster now so it nullifies that advantage somewhat, DeGrasse does not have that.

[Panocek]

Nothing wrong with Da Grasso, fast and nimble cruiser you can use with IFHEnri captain. Quick turret traverse, solid, although not russian grade ballistics 3 metal fishes per side and quite long ranged ones at that.

[Tyrendian89]

22 minutes ago, Gnirf said:

 

La Gal has the reload booster now so it nullifies that advantage somewhat, DeGrasse does not have that.

true, I forgot about that.

[Bics93]

3 ore fa, Beastofwar ha scritto:

like a noob

 

I think I found the problem 

 

Edit: jokes aside, the key is using speed like in randoms even against bots; you have to flank and devastate cruiser broadside with AP or just burn BBs with HE usingz some other ships as a sponge between you and the enemy.

[Bear__Necessities]

59 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

That, and as a CL is really wants to have a captain with IFHE to be effective (like the LaGal), which isnt much use on the later french cruisers.

IFHE Henri would disagree 

 

Wait... that’s rhymes! Go me!

[Beastofwar]

Maybe not....this is a Cruiser without heal too, but has smoke to compensate.

 

De Grasse has neither smoke or heal, but for OPERATIONS useless AA consumables.

 

For all those that refer to RANDOM matches....i didn't say that, i mean litterally OPERATIONS require heals. But maybe the Operations should do that for these cruisers to stay alive AND be able to achieve the objectives in time.

 

 

 

 

[Zen71_sniper]

3 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

I use T6 premiums mainly in operations for fun, XP and credits but noticed cruisers without heals ( and no heal provided in that Ops ) generally do very poorly against bots. It Coop that seems true also.

 

I recon in randoms or other modes you just don't go to the front lines to be shot at, deal long range damage and dance around incoming fire you do get. But the bots have different ways and completing objectives usually prevents you can do that standoff type of combat....need to push although you cannot be up front.

 

I used the Graf Spee, it did well, survive. I used the Dunkuerque it did well, survive. I use the de Grasse.....get wacked after 3 min in the Ops like a noob.

 

I'm sure i'm making a player mistake - never figured out why that Budyonny, Shcors ans Chapayev are/were so much loved either, but those are tech tree -  and and wondering if it should have a heal as it is a big ship....it seems to suffer without a heal.

 

What balances out it's lack of a heal anyway ? What is so good it should do without ? Duca de Aosta a bit the same thing....only it is a smaller ship. Why do premium Cruisers - without smoke - lack heals ?

 

 

Nope. In fact in operations with De Grasse have personal best - 28 citadels in one game. Learn how to position and you will be fine. Never be in a situation from which you can not escape by kiting away. 

[fumtu]

4 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

For all those that refer to RANDOM matches....i didn't say that, i mean litterally OPERATIONS require heals. But maybe the Operations should do that for these cruisers to stay alive AND be able to achieve the objectives in time.

 

Only two operations don't have any healing area or ship. But you can do both without having heal. I prefer Pepsi in T6 operations and she don't heave heal either. Play smart and you can work around not having a heal. Having at least somewhat decent team also helps.

[Yedwy]

Bugger the heal give me the MBRB as la gal has

[Bics93]

48 minuti fa, Yedwy ha scritto:

Bugger the heal give me the MBRB as la gal has

 

Man, this would be fantastic 

[MMASK]

Indeed, why was De Grasse left out when MBRB were given? Its reload is not so much better than La Gal.

[fumtu]

12 minutes ago, MMASK said:

Indeed, why was De Grasse left out when MBRB were given? Its reload is not so much better than La Gal.

 

But it is still better. And DG has more health. And more speed. And more torps. And more range. Well concealment is same. What Gasoline has over DG? Maybe better mid range AA? 40m better turning circle and 0.something better rudder shift. Sorry but even when released DG was better then Gasoline in everything that matter. MBRB just make Gasoline a little more attractive. Wonder would you trade MBRB for 10sec reload on DG? Just for balancing with it silver counterpart. DG don't need any buffs.