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FukushuNL

On Russian BB accuracy mechanic for all BBs...

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I saw a vid from Notser today about how Russian BBs mechanic gave him the accuracy to use his skills and knowledge an experience of the game mechanics for a reliable damage output. And because the other BBs up till now didn't have that and rather had a lot of RNG in their shots, he gets agrivated by playing them. As such he preached wanting the other BBs to have the same mechanic in the way the main battery works. Then there was a person in a threat about the Roma that asked WG to give her the same mechanic the Russian BBs have as the Roma has one of the worsed dispersions in the game. 

 

But I don't think giving other BBs the same disperion below 15 km, even if ships like Monarch, Roma and Bismarck can't hit a tree in a forrest. RNG and dispersion are two main things this game is build upon and taking those things away would make it a different game. Sure, making it a skill over "luck" game certainly has it's positive things and in all honesty, I too am cursing the game when a perfect 8 km range shot on a perfect broadside goes in front, back, left and right of the enemy ship at the same time. But on the other hand, taking the dispersion out of the equation makes so many ships feel the same and also gives you less other characteristics to balance ships around. For instance, ships with a bad aim get better concealment, armor or a more powerful armament. Buit if you give all ships a great dispersion, then you can do less with the other characteristics to balance things out. There is no way to play with dispersion to give ships a unique feature around that stat anymore. 

 

I love the dispersion stat, that there are ships that are build around having a very good dispersion but sucking in other stats and that for instance most cruiser dispersions are better than most BB dispersions. I don't think the RNG is bad for the game, but instead makes WoWS the game that it is. I don't know how accurate rl battleships were, but I also find it quite a nice feel that huge manmade barrels that use something rough as an explosion to fire shells over kilometers and kilometers of sea in what's really a big floating bathtub has a bit of a gamble behind it instead of it being precision bombing. I rather adjust the Ru BBs if their accuracy ends up to make them OP in combination with their other traits.

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The problem is that sub 15km is where the vast majority of cruisers operate - so a flat bonus to accuracy at short-medium ranges will lead to more BBs deleting cruisers in a single volley. Not ideal when the game is struggling with a campy passive meta as things are.

 

I think the RU BBs are complete nonsense due to so many factors - the fact that the gunners suddenly remember how to aim if a target gets within a certain arbitrary range is but one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they become the bane of any cruiser player that doesn't insist on hugging the nearest island. 

 

 

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 Its already funny how the largest caliber guns of Yamato do less damage than several ships that recently were added to the game and are bound by the same RNG of getting autobounce more often than overmatch, that suposed to be its trading point.

 German BB were suposed to be getting what Soviets are recieving, because those ships shotguns cant hit crap, but they even cut their secondary guns by giving French better ones.

 Its quite interesting to imagine something that will beat this, and we still havent heard of the Italian BB.

 I rather for the idea of scrapping the idea of better dispersion on shorter ranges since theyre guns do MOST damage at this point, let them have that 1,7 sigma, if they hit they do massive damage, but dont let them do it on constant basis.

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This idea is not new. Some parts of the community suggested this for over two years.

It has to be tweaked that BB do not get too accurate at close and middle ranges, but BB do need to get less accurate at long ranges (beyond 14km).

 

Agressive BB gameplay would be more rewarding and skillful play would allow players to get good results and keep their ship afloat.

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16 minutes ago, FukushuNL said:

I saw a vid from Notser today about how Russian BBs mechanic gave him the accuracy to use his skills and knowledge an experience of the game mechanics for a reliable damage output.

Is this the vid you're talking about?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Just asking for a reference

 

Not everything he says I agree with, but we just have to wait and see.

 

This type of H.disp. - tighter at close range, similar at mid range, worse at long range - is exactly what I've been asking for every now and then for what feels like forever. Really looking forward for it

 

However it needs to be noted that Notser mentioning it being cruiser-like is completely wrong.

QPUyiPK.png

 

Only Kronstadt is comparable, and that same because it gets the US / VMF / RN BB horizontal dispersion, not the SCA one.

We don't know much (if anything) about their vertical dispersion either (usually matters much more than horizontal dispersion), and sigma's far from being great.

 

 

And another thing most if not all CCs seem to completely ignore - including Notser here - the armour is amazing till the moment someone gets your side. Those citadels are MASSIVE. If a ship has your side & can pen that main belt - you're f:etc_swear:ed

Maneuverability (or rather - their turning) being rather weak won't help this either

 

40 minutes ago, FukushuNL said:

for instance most cruiser dispersions are better than most BB dispersions

ALL cruisers except Kronstadt have better dispersion than ALL battleships

 

3 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Its already funny how the largest caliber guns of Yamato do less damage than several ships that recently were added to the game

Shells diameter isn't everything, you know

 

4 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

and are bound by the same RNG of getting autobounce more often than overmatch, that suposed to be its trading point.

Only Yamato / Musashi guns can overmatch 32mm armour. No other gun in the game goes past 31mm. So no, they aren't bound to get the same result

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15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

This idea is not new. Some parts of the community suggested this for over two years.

It has to be tweaked that BB do not get too accurate at close and middle ranges, but BB do need to get less accurate at long ranges (beyond 14km).

 

Agressive BB gameplay would be more rewarding and skillful play would allow players to get good results and keep their ship afloat.

You mention aggressive gameplay, now one of my major mistakes, is being to aggressive, I might be right but usually am wrong, I believe that being aggressive and pushing is what wins games, usually in my case it does not, but so many game I see BB's and the like hang back, where is they had pushed, we might have won.

 

I used to believe what BB's hang back or move in a group, not sure if this is true or not, but normally what ever I do in  a BB I get moaned at,any ideas on this, useful ones that is not just shouting out my consistently bad stats, lol.

 

Say you were out and about for a cruise in your Massachusetts, or Tirpitz, or even your Alsace or Mushashi, where would you be, and which one are the brawlers and the long distance artillery?

 

Someone mentioned in anothe rthread that over a long range, HE is a better ammo than AP, somehow that makes sense to me, and trust me not many things do, lol

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42 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Is this the vid you're talking about?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Just asking for a reference

 

Not everything he says I agree with, but we just have to wait and see.

 

This type of H.disp. - tighter at close range, similar at mid range, worse at long range - is exactly what I've been asking for every now and then for what feels like forever. Really looking forward for it

 

However it needs to be noted that Notser mentioning it being cruiser-like is completely wrong.

QPUyiPK.png

 

Only Kronstadt is comparable, and that same because it gets the US / VMF / RN BB horizontal dispersion, not the SCA one.

We don't know much (if anything) about their vertical dispersion either (usually matters much more than horizontal dispersion), and sigma's far from being great.

 

 

And another thing most if not all CCs seem to completely ignore - including Notser here - the armour is amazing till the moment someone gets your side. Those citadels are MASSIVE. If a ship has your side & can pen that main belt - you're f:etc_swear:ed

Maneuverability (or rather - their turning) being rather weak won't help this either

 

ALL cruisers except Kronstadt have better dispersion than ALL battleships

 

Shells diameter isn't everything, you know

 

Only Yamato / Musashi guns can overmatch 32mm armour. No other gun in the game goes past 31mm. So no, they aren't bound to get the same result

Nope, the Untitled vid from today. 

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43 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

You mention aggressive gameplay, now one of my major mistakes, is being to aggressive, I might be right but usually am wrong, I believe that being aggressive and pushing is what wins games, usually in my case it does not, but so many game I see BB's and the like hang back, where is they had pushed, we might have won.

 

I used to believe what BB's hang back or move in a group, not sure if this is true or not, but normally what ever I do in  a BB I get moaned at,any ideas on this, useful ones that is not just shouting out my consistently bad stats, lol.

 

Say you were out and about for a cruise in your Massachusetts, or Tirpitz, or even your Alsace or Mushashi, where would you be, and which one are the brawlers and the long distance artillery?

 

Someone mentioned in anothe rthread that over a long range, HE is a better ammo than AP, somehow that makes sense to me, and trust me not many things do, lol

Most of the time I'm midrange, even trying to brawl/push a bit, except for the Japanese.

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1 hour ago, NoobySkooby said:

You mention aggressive gameplay, now one of my major mistakes, is being to aggressive, I might be right but usually am wrong, I believe that being aggressive and pushing is what wins games, usually in my case it does not, but so many game I see BB's and the like hang back, where is they had pushed, we might have won.

 

I used to believe what BB's hang back or move in a group, not sure if this is true or not, but normally what ever I do in  a BB I get moaned at,any ideas on this, useful ones that is not just shouting out my consistently bad stats, lol.

 

Say you were out and about for a cruise in your Massachusetts, or Tirpitz, or even your Alsace or Mushashi, where would you be, and which one are the brawlers and the long distance artillery?

 

Someone mentioned in anothe rthread that over a long range, HE is a better ammo than AP, somehow that makes sense to me, and trust me not many things do, lol

HE can be a better type of ammo over long range, because you lose penetration power over range, so you might not be able to penetrate the hull anymore. It is pretty simple actually, when your AP shells break or ricochet you either need to aim for a different part of the ship or use HE shells. When I play my Montana I use like 30% of the time HE, but when I play my Yamato it gets really rare. 
In case I expect penetrations, but got ricochets or broken shells, I usually look up the armour layout of the enemy ship together with a penetration table. Not really necessary, but prevents me from wasting my first salvo :)

Same for being aggressive, that is only needed to gain a cap advantage which will lead to a point advantage. After capping 2 caps you can continue the push into the last cap, but you can also start kiting to gain more HP control. 
EDIT: Simply kiting / defending is easier to gain a victory with, because pushing drains HP.

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I think that the concept of giving bbs better dispersion the closer they are is wrong. Bbs already have pretty high dmg number per salvos and giving them even more tools to deal with theyr counters (looking at dds mostly) will unbalance them too much. Just imagine yourself in a dd, u plan to yolo torp a bb, u have the HP to do so...or u think so. U pop out, get spotted and ready to take the hits and if the enemy is reloaded u receive at least 6 overpens for about 10k hp...

I've already deleted dds doing so with the " normal dispersion go figure if it get even better the closer the target 

 

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23 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

I think that the concept of giving bbs better dispersion the closer they are is wrong. Bbs already have pretty high dmg number per salvos and giving them even more tools to deal with theyr counters (looking at dds mostly) will unbalance them too much. Just imagine yourself in a dd, u plan to yolo torp a bb, u have the HP to do so...or u think so. U pop out, get spotted and ready to take the hits and if the enemy is reloaded u receive at least 6 overpens for about 10k hp...

I've already deleted dds doing so with the " normal dispersion go figure if it get even better the closer the target 

 

 

If you ask me a DD shouldnt be able to y0l0 rush a BB and kill him if the BB is prepared and preaimed.

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3 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

 

If you ask me a DD shouldnt be able to y0l0 rush a BB and kill him if the BB is prepared and preaimed.

Sure i agree with that, but sometimes ù need to "remove" a threat. A better example could have been if u get spotted by an unspotted radar cruiser while contesting a cap and the bb u were launching torps at is 10 km away from you...what whould happen if a kurry or a monty fires a full salvo with that increased accuracy. We delt with the dmg on dds already and this kind of a gimmik will just bring it back

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10 minutes ago, AdmiralDing3Ling said:

 

If you ask me a DD shouldnt be able to y0l0 rush a BB and kill him if the BB is prepared and preaimed.

They usually do not not.

If that happens the BB player did seriously do something wrong or had the worst RNG ever.

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6 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

HE can be a better type of ammo over long range, because you lose penetration power over range, so you might not be able to penetrate the hull anymore. It is pretty simple actually, when your AP shells break or ricochet you either need to aim for a different part of the ship or use HE shells. When I play my Montana I use like 30% of the time HE, but when I play my Yamato it gets really rare. 
In case I expect penetrations, but got ricochets or broken shells, I usually look up the armour layout of the enemy ship together with a penetration table. Not really necessary, but prevents me from wasting my first salvo :)

There's another issue when you get too close - overpens. Get too close and damage is reduced again.

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19 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And another thing most if not all CCs seem to completely ignore - including Notser here - the armour is amazing till the moment someone gets your side. Those citadels are MASSIVE. If a ship has your side & can pen that main belt - you're f:etc_swear:ed

Notser has an RU BB video when that happens. Unfortunately. He, Flamu and Flambass also have several videos where they park their BB up near or between islands and make like a fort: bow in, front guns only, almost invulnerable. Bow is almost impossible to pen, deck is too stronk for cruiser fire, superstructure is small and gets saturated quickly. Unless CV bombs are an effective counter, this is a line of ships which is going to be a massive headache to counter unless they are played really badly. 

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51 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Notser has an RU BB video when that happens. Unfortunately. He, Flamu and Flambass also have several videos where they park their BB up near or between islands and make like a fort: bow in, front guns only, almost invulnerable. Bow is almost impossible to pen, deck is too stronk for cruiser fire, superstructure is small and gets saturated quickly. Unless CV bombs are an effective counter, this is a line of ships which is going to be a massive headache to counter unless they are played really badly. 

Thats why i said sometime ù have to remove a threat and yolo rush as a dd 

I was thinking exactly of that

That gimmik is just wrong 

 

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As posted elsewhere the WIP RU ships are proving to be monstrously overpowered.  If they go live in that state it will not be pleasant.

 

Adding the same ability to other BBs would be just as bad for everyone not in a BB.

 

While something is needed to stop the plague of max range camping then making BBs less accurate at long range would be sufficient.  There's no need to give them such demonic levels of accuracy with their alpha damage when close, it would just mean a new meta with even fewer people in cruisers (and DDs)

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I think ALL ships would benefit from this mechanic. Only question is where the penalty/bonus would start and how much it would be. 15km is too much imo, and the bonus shouldnt be too large either.

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22 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

I saw a vid from Notser today

I've stopped reading after this... 

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1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Notser has an RU BB video when that happens. Unfortunately. He, Flamu and Flambass also have several videos where they park their BB up near or between islands and make like a fort: bow in, front guns only, almost invulnerable. Bow is almost impossible to pen, deck is too stronk for cruiser fire, superstructure is small and gets saturated quickly. Unless CV bombs are an effective counter, this is a line of ships which is going to be a massive headache to counter unless they are played really badly. 

Well luckily over 90% of BBs have no clue what they are doing.

 

And remember that even when played well  you often end up giving your broadside to someone. Hard to esxape that, especially if you don’t see them.

 

Their armour isn’t particularly unique - it reminds me of german armour quite a bit. HE will hurt them less than most other nations, meanwhile - especially when combined with the limited DCP - fires will do a lot of the damage they take while angled.

 

And again - those citadels are massive. Expect to see them punished for every little mistake. Just look at the t5 - citadel goes practically up to its deck. So what that it’s covered in 38 / 75mm armour? It will get citadelled more than ships like Omaha or Nurnberg

 

CCs ignoring weaknesses and whinibg about ships strengths is why large part of the community is so clueless - they have no idea why they get wrecked, except that “Flamu said there was something OP, that must be the reason” and they have no clue how to deal with enemies - insert that same “quote”

 

45 minutes ago, Xanta99 said:

As posted elsewhere the WIP RU ships are proving to be monstrously overpowered. 

Yamatos review by the same standards as VMF BBs are getting right now:

460mms wtf WG, thy can overmatch more than all other guns!!!! That HE alpha omg what are you thinking?!?!?! And that deck - impenetrable to most HE!!! This ship will be monstrously OP!!!!

 

Easy to call something OP when literally everyone ignores every single weakness

 

48 minutes ago, Xanta99 said:

There's no need to give them such demonic levels of accuracy

At least learn how small the difference is before posting something like this :fish_palm: Most of the time H.disp. - their “strongpoint” - is the least valuable part of your dispersion / accuracy

 

 

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16 hours ago, Marducas91 said:

I think that the concept of giving bbs better dispersion the closer they are is wrong. Bbs already have pretty high dmg number per salvos and giving them even more tools to deal with theyr counters (looking at dds mostly) will unbalance them too much. Just imagine yourself in a dd, u plan to yolo torp a bb, u have the HP to do so...or u think so. U pop out, get spotted and ready to take the hits and if the enemy is reloaded u receive at least 6 overpens for about 10k hp...

I've already deleted dds doing so with the " normal dispersion go figure if it get even better the closer the target 

 

Well I personnaly love this new concept for RU BBs.

It will force BB players to be more agressive and push, or they will have shitty dispersion.

And remember the russian BBs can be citadelled easily when flanked, so I suspect plenty of players pushing recklessly and being punished while showing broadside.

So we will finally have a BB line that rewards good play (good aiming and good positionning) while punishing the average broadside-showing player. I've been waiting for this since... released USN and IJN BBs?

 

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49 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

Well I personnaly love this new concept for RU BBs. 

We'll see on how balanced they will be but so far i think they sound like a boatload of fun to try.

 

49 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

It will force BB players to be more agressive and push, or they will have shitty dispersion. 

May i point to the inevitable 20km "snipah"-Bismarck or GK you find every other match ?

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If I might remind everyone, this is not about how OP Ru BBs might be, but rather that all the other BBs are ok with non-laser accurate shells.Having a difference in accuracy is fine imo. Makes the difference between BBs and between different classes more fun.

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1 hour ago, rnat said:

May i point to the inevitable 20km "snipah"-Bismarck or GK you find every other match ?

Obviously there will be those players always staying far behind and sniping, but that will not prevent the ones knowing how those RU BBs are supposed to be played to play differently :)

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