Spotters are breaking cyclones... Again

[wilkatis_LV]

Edit: Confirmed as "Not a bug, it's a new mechanic" by MrConway. I'll keep the rest of the thread the same, adding this just to reduce confusion / misinformation

 

Apparently my all time favorite bug has made a re-appearance, however this time in a significantly "nerfed" version

 

Spotters in cyclone now work like a... very localized radar is the best explanation I can give

 

The plane needs to be within 8km of the target & able to spot them (either through their base air detection being high enough, or that being extended due to them firing), and as a result of that the "mothership" of the plane gets an extended view range against this target, including being able to fire without getting spotted in return.

 

Effectively you get up to a couple accurate & safe salvos per usage of the spotter. Compared to the 0 without it - quite a big improvement

 

Posting this in Gameplay as sort of a PSA - abuse it while you can Still going to tag @MrConway and @Crysantos so they can report this to whoever needs the reporting

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

Maybe "We need more Data"? geegee WG.

[wilkatis_LV]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

Maybe "We need more Data"? geegee WG.

I still prefer the original version of this where popping a spotter plane effectively removed the cyclone for you - you could spot everyone & see everyone well past 8km Now that was something, 1st time I saw something hotfixed within couple days of reporting it

[loppantorkel]

I'm not sure, but maybe it's working as intended..? Doesn't radar allow a similar advantage?

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

I've suggested numerous times that planes should be very much affected by bad weather. In real life, they couldn't even have been launched in such a storm. If nothing else, then at least there should be a very high chance of losing the plane prematurely if it launched into a storm front or cyclone. Planes should be taking significant damage over time in inclement weather. Carrier squadrons should be able to lose their way, maybe make their minimap go all fuzzy, or shift the coordinates or something.

[wilkatis_LV]

4 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

I'm not sure, but maybe it's working as intended..? Doesn't radar allow a similar advantage?

Planes are supposed to have view range limited to 3km in cyclone. Even if that wasn’t the case, you shouldn’t be able to see past 8km without a radar.

 

Definitely not working as intended

[MrConway]

On 3/9/2019 at 1:41 AM, wilkatis_LV said:

Apparently my all time favorite bug has made a re-appearance, however this time in a significantly "nerfed" version

 

Spotters in cyclone now work like a... very localized radar is the best explanation I can give

 

The plane needs to be within 8km of the target & able to spot them (either through their base air detection being high enough, or that being extended due to them firing), and as a result of that the "mothership" of the plane gets an extended view range against this target, including being able to fire without getting spotted in return.

 

Effectively you get up to a couple accurate & safe salvos per usage of the spotter. Compared to the 0 without it - quite a big improvement

 

 Posting this in Gameplay as sort of a PSA - abuse it while you can Still going to tag @MrConway and @Crysantos so they can report this to whoever needs the reporting

  

 

 

This is working as intended!

 

When you launch a spotter in a cyclone it extends your viewrange to the viewrange of the spotter plane.

 

So if an enemy ship is seen by it, you can of course shoot without being detected.

 

Bear in mind that the spotter plane has its own viewrange and will only let you see targets it is in range of directly.

 

This mechanic is only visible in a cyclone because in regular conditions your ship will always have a higher viewrange than the one of the launched spotter plane.

[Cambera_1]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:13 AM, wilkatis_LV said:

Planes are supposed to have view range limited to 3km in cyclone.

Not arguing as I genuinely don't know but considering @MrConway's answer - can you show us the release notes/news item that stated this.

26 minutes ago, MrConway said:

When you launch a spotter in a cyclone it extends your viewrange to the viewrange of the spotter plane.

I find this counterintuitive and historically difficult.

IRL Spotters would have had major difficulty in launching in these conditions. (Launch before fine.)

 

During a cyclone their visibility would suffer significantly more, proportionately, than surface ships, dur to low cloud, rain and the significant white water due to breaking waves. It is the bow waves & wake that are the most visible sign of a ship from the air.

 

Navigating back to their mothership would be difficult, but not a patch on any attempt at landing and recovery on any ship other than a CV, that would be merely very dangerous as opposed to the suicidal landing on water with cyclone waves.

 

The only option for a float plane would be a onshore facility if the plane was equipped with landing gear or a suitably sheltered harbor.

 

Remember that some Destroyers were lost to waves in these conditions.

[philjd]

6 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

......Navigating back to their mothership would be difficult, but not a patch on any attempt at landing and recovery on any ship other than a CV,....

 

Best of luck landing on that..... 

"The aircraft carrier USS Langley (CVL-27) lists dangerously during Typhoon Cobra east of the Philippines in December 1944. Some 790 U.S. sailors lost their lives during this storm, mostly when three destroyers, the USS Hull, USS Monaghan, and USS Spence capsized and sank accounting for 775 of the fatalities. Photo from Wikipedia file."

 

 

 

[wilkatis_LV]

34 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

This is working as intended!

 

When you launch a spotter in a cyclone it extends your viewrange to the viewrange of the spotter plane.

 

So if an enemy ship is seen by it, you can of course shoot without being detected.

 

Bear in mind that the spotter plane has its own viewrange and will only let you see targets it is in range of directly.

 

This mechanic is only visible in a cyclone because in regular conditions your ship will always have a higher viewrange than the one of the launched spotter plane.

Ahh, old bug turned into a proper mechanic? Interesting indeed, at least some good has come to spotters from the rework 

 

That also makes sense as to how it works, you effectively get [patrol radius] extra view range directly towards the plane, which then makes your cyclone vision range into sort of an “8” shape... 

This brings some nice outplay possibilities 

[elblancogringo]

10 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

I find this [...] historically difficult.

Since when did WG take realism into account in that game?

Spotter plane is actually one of the most realistic consumables 

[BrusilovX]

1 minute ago, elblancogringo said:

Since when did WG take realism into account in that game?

Spotter plane is actually one of the most realistic consumables 

Only after radar that can see through islands...

 

[MrConway]

1 hour ago, Cambera_1 said:

Not arguing as I genuinely don't know but considering @MrConway's answer - can you show us the release notes/news item that stated this.

I find this counterintuitive and historically difficult.

IRL Spotters would have had major difficulty in launching in these conditions. (Launch before fine.)

 

During a cyclone their visibility would suffer significantly more, proportionately, than surface ships, dur to low cloud, rain and the significant white water due to breaking waves. It is the bow waves & wake that are the most visible sign of a ship from the air.

 

Navigating back to their mothership would be difficult, but not a patch on any attempt at landing and recovery on any ship other than a CV, that would be merely very dangerous as opposed to the suicidal landing on water with cyclone waves.

 

The only option for a float plane would be a onshore facility if the plane was equipped with landing gear or a suitably sheltered harbor.

 

Remember that some Destroyers were lost to waves in these conditions.

 

 

Well, nobody said it wasn't a suicide mission 

[T0byJug]

1 hour ago, Cambera_1 said:

Not arguing as I genuinely don't know but considering @MrConway's answer - can you show us the release notes/news item that stated this.

I find this counterintuitive and historically difficult.

IRL Spotters would have had major difficulty in launching in these conditions. (Launch before fine.)

 

During a cyclone their visibility would suffer significantly more, proportionately, than surface ships, dur to low cloud, rain and the significant white water due to breaking waves. It is the bow waves & wake that are the most visible sign of a ship from the air.

 

Navigating back to their mothership would be difficult, but not a patch on any attempt at landing and recovery on any ship other than a CV, that would be merely very dangerous as opposed to the suicidal landing on water with cyclone waves.

 

The only option for a float plane would be a onshore facility if the plane was equipped with landing gear or a suitably sheltered harbor.

 

Remember that some Destroyers were lost to waves in these conditions.

on that your wrong.. Recovery very much true.. ships  often had to spread fuel oil on the sea to calm it down so they could recover there plane.. But a catapult launch could be done in almost any conditions.

 

And lets remember Cyclone in the game is only a name , It means a storm or just bad weather. In a real cyclone fleets would not engage in any type of battle. apart from staying afloat.

 

What we have in game is more a Rain squall..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squall

 

The name hardly has the same effect though

[Miessa3]

26 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

 

Well, nobody said it wasn't a suicide mission 

Well ingame the Planes do seem to land safely back on the ship when the actiontime is over though. (If they aren't shot down by AA ofc.)

 

On Topic:

Nice to know!

Another exploit I can use is written down in my captains book of fancy tricks.

[Cambera_1]

21 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

on that your wrong.. Recovery very much true.. ships  often had to spread fuel oil on the sea to calm it down so they could recover there plane.. But a catapult launch could be done in almost any conditions.

 

And lets remember Cyclone in the game is only a name , It means a storm or just bad weather. In a real cyclone fleets would not engage in any type of battle. apart from staying afloat.

To launch a catapult aircraft the launch vessel had to turn across the wind so that the aircraft launched into the wind. How much depends on the Catapult arrangements of the vessel in question. Only CVs and other specialist aircraft vessels had forward facing catapults.

Even if the conditions were not so bad as to endanger the launch ship, she will be rolling in the waves created. One moment the catapult is pointing at the sea, the next the sky. Yes you could try to launch 'on the up roll', but too soon and the aircraft has been catapulted into the waves. Too late and the aircraft is climbing too steeply and stalls, and falls into the waves having too little altitude to recover. To quote:-

36 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Well, nobody said it wasn't a suicide mission 

However this a game, and IF it is working as intended then fine but if

 

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:13 AM, wilkatis_LV said:

Planes are supposed to have view range limited to 3km in cyclone.

then that is what it should be.

[wilkatis_LV]

30 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

However this a game, and IF it is working as intended then fine but if

  

On 3/9/2019 at 11:13 AM, wilkatis_LV said:

Planes are supposed to have view range limited to 3km in cyclone.

then that is what it should be.

Well, that's how it was pre-rework. Hadn't seen anything on that changing so I just assumed it still holds true. As we can see - it doesn't, at least not for spotters which always have had a lot of unique abilities.

Rework's still fresh, there's still a lot to figure out & discover