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Amazing07

Beginner battleships?

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Hi

 

I wanted to start playing battleships but I don't know of any battleship lines that teach battleship game play.

 

Thanks

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The Japanese and USN lines are a good start.

Classic BB gameplay without any gimmicky traits.

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1 minute ago, rnat said:

The Japanese and USN lines are a good start.

Classic BB gameplay without any gimmicky traits.

Thanks, I might do IJN battleships because I've heard they are quite fast

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6 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

French ones are pretty easy to play.

High velocity shells, many barrels and speedy ships. 

Yeah, The speed part could be helpful since my ship positioning is not great. High velocity shells could also be very helpful for hitting things at long range

 

Thanks

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9 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

French ones are pretty easy to play.

High velocity shells, many barrels and speedy ships. 

I have a question, Does playing french battleships come with any bad habits?

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10 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

French ones are pretty easy to play.

High velocity shells, many barrels and speedy ships. 

They suffer from low caliber (for their tier) form mid-tier onwards though, so you need to be more adept at finding and creating situations where you can get a nice broadside form the enemy.

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2 minutes ago, rnat said:

They suffer from low caliber (for their tier) form mid-tier onwards though, so you need to be more adept at finding and creating situations where you can get a nice broadside form the enemy.

Thanks, whilst my positioning is bad, Could I use the speed of french battleships to try to get a broadside of the enemy?

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10 minutes ago, Amazing07 said:

I have a question, Does playing french battleships come with any bad habits?

What @rnat said. They also take a bit more damage from HE shells than the traditional battleships. 

The US BBs are really slow till tier 8. I personally found them too slow for the current meta, because there are some games where you can't hit a ship before the battle is over. 
The IJN BBs are faster, but I personnaly think they are better at medium to long range fights, and this requires quite some experience.

With the MN BBs you have weaker armour, but the citadel is still really well protected, and weaker guns, but speed and many barrels. In the lower tiers this doesn't really make a difference, but you will start to notice the lack of caliber at tier 8 and 9. This doesn't make them bad ships, but you need to be a bit smarter. 
The enjoyable thing is their speed at the lower tiers and the high velocity makes it easier to hit ships :)

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2 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:


The enjoyable thing is their speed at the lower tiers and the high velocity makes it easier to hit ships :)

I might try them, I think that their speed and shell velocity is quite helpful

 

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I can't think of any particular bad habits they might teach other than maybe expecting your BB to not be slow compared to other ships.

The only point is that they require a bit more fore-thought than other lines to work well, which may not be ideal for a beginner at BBs or the game.

Edit:

They also tend to melt more quickly under HE-spam than most other lines which is on the one hand good because it teaches you not to over commit and to disengage

but on the other hand bad because it discourages tanking and could lead to a back-line long range play-style.

 

Most important point in a BB though, until you have enough experience to judge when to change keep AP loaded at all times and aim for broadsiding enemies.

unless you know you're gonna fire at a DD next, in that case feel free to load HE.

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Orion is very good at IV good HE, Duke is meh, Queen difficult but I liked her, King George good god, difficult ship, I stopped there,

 

ijn ships are nice all around but with limitations and some of their ships are weird later (Kongo, Izumo) but you get yamato (which isn't easy mind you), great guns,

 

french have a lot of guns VI and VII but small caliber and are fast and later they interest me as Im grinding this line now, german are nice but need you to get used to it as they need to get closer and they are powercreeped a lot, but if you reach gneiss and above they are pretty interesting.

 

USA line offers all but they are very slow, prob best line though.

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12 hours ago, Amazing07 said:

Thanks, whilst my positioning is bad, Could I use the speed of french battleships to try to get a broadside of the enemy?

If you mean rushing past them for surprise buttsecks World of Tanks style, then no. Not even Russian gunboat destroyers are fast enough to close lets say 10km distance without minute of sailing straight at maximum speed possible, and they clock over 45kts

Speed on battleships is more to keep with the fleet and in case flank collapses, at least try to disengage

 

 

From mid tier specific BBs I can recommend:

IJN Kongo - battlecruiser with BB guns. Which means with some angling skills you can tank battleship grade shells while returning favor in kind, when bottom tier you can use her speed to act as overgrown cruiser. Hampered by only 8 guns total with only "average" accuracy

IJN Fuso - old but gold tier 6 battlship - guns are the same as on Kongo, but you have 12 of them and there isn't an issue you can't deal with by putting more ordnance on it. Suffers from showing broadside but when angled she can withstand disturbing amount of punishment, also amidship armored enough to shrug off small and mid caliber HE and have tiny superstructure on top of that (tiny in terms of area covered, not in terms of height)

RN Queen Elizabeth - while Fuso is smashing with 12gun broadsides, QE is precise (by BB standards) scalpel to brutalize enemies. Not as armored and she suffers from HE shells from cruisers, her 381mm guns can overmatch up to and including 25mm plating, which means tier 6-7 battleships and tier 8 cruisers (with Germans and USN as exceptions)

MN Normandie - what happens if Kongo and Fuso have kids - okay armored 12gun fast battleship, with main drawback being turret placement - bow on you're limited to 1/3 firepower, at angle when Fuso can smash with 12gun salvo you can use only 8 and you need to show entire broadside to use 3rd turret. AA is also abysmal, so beware of that.

MN Lyon - take Normandie, fiddle with armor and plant 4th turret for meme 16gun salvo. Solve whatever issues with accuracy you have by adding more guns

 

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1 hour ago, Panocek said:

If you mean rushing past them for surprise buttsecks World of Tanks style, then no. Not even Russian gunboat destroyers are fast enough to close lets say 10km distance without minute of sailing straight at maximum speed possible, and they clock over 45kts

Speed on battleships is more to keep with the fleet and in case flank collapses, at least try to disengage

 

 

From mid tier specific BBs I can recommend:

IJN Kongo - battlecruiser with BB guns. Which means with some angling skills you can tank battleship grade shells while returning favor in kind, when bottom tier you can use her speed to act as overgrown cruiser. Hampered by only 8 guns total with only "average" accuracy

IJN Fuso - old but gold tier 6 battlship - guns are the same as on Kongo, but you have 12 of them and there isn't an issue you can't deal with by putting more ordnance on it. Suffers from showing broadside but when angled she can withstand disturbing amount of punishment, also amidship armored enough to shrug off small and mid caliber HE and have tiny superstructure on top of that (tiny in terms of area covered, not in terms of height)

RN Queen Elizabeth - while Fuso is smashing with 12gun broadsides, QE is precise (by BB standards) scalpel to brutalize enemies. Not as armored and she suffers from HE shells from cruisers, her 381mm guns can overmatch up to and including 25mm plating, which means tier 6-7 battleships and tier 8 cruisers (with Germans and USN as exceptions)

MN Normandie - what happens if Kongo and Fuso have kids - okay armored 12gun fast battleship, with main drawback being turret placement - bow on you're limited to 1/3 firepower, at angle when Fuso can smash with 12gun salvo you can use only 8 and you need to show entire broadside to use 3rd turret. AA is also abysmal, so beware of that.

MN Lyon - take Normandie, fiddle with armor and plant 4th turret for meme 16gun salvo. Solve whatever issues with accuracy you have by adding more guns

 

Thanks, I'm using the IJN Kawachi and I think that it's ok so I might continue with that

 

 

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4 hours ago, Amazing07 said:

Thanks, I'm using the IJN Kawachi and I think that it's ok so I might continue with that

 

 

Regardless which battleboat you will use, keep in mind RNGesus is a fickle entity:Smile-_tongue:

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7 hours ago, Amazing07 said:

Thanks, I'm using the IJN Kawachi and I think that it's ok so I might continue with that

 

 

Don't judge any line based on the T3 BB. Nothing later is like Kawachi in the IJN line. Mostly for the better.

 

Also, in terms of BBs, my recommended progression is:

USN

IJN

Whatever else

 

USN BBs are pretty no-nonsense designs. They are pretty meh mid-tiers, but if it's your first line, it might still be exciting and it's as basic as it gets. IJN is the next most conventional line, but trades some damage control and repair potential for flexibility, which is better when you already have a basic idea how to play BBs. Every other line is basically a variant of that playstyle, with Germans bringing superb tankiness, French bringing speed and lots of small guns and the British bringing lack of armour, but good concealment and improved HE (though HE just becomes a more useful option, not your standard ammo).

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1 hour ago, Seiranko said:

Don't judge any line based on the T3 BB. Nothing later is like Kawachi in the IJN line. Mostly for the better.

 

Also, in terms of BBs, my recommended progression is:

USN

IJN

Whatever else

 

USN BBs are pretty no-nonsense designs. They are pretty meh mid-tiers, but if it's your first line, it might still be exciting and it's as basic as it gets. IJN is the next most conventional line, but trades some damage control and repair potential for flexibility, which is better when you already have a basic idea how to play BBs. Every other line is basically a variant of that playstyle, with Germans bringing superb tankiness, French bringing speed and lots of small guns and the British bringing lack of armour, but good concealment and improved HE (though HE just becomes a more useful option, not your standard ammo).

Thanks, The USN BBs look like they tank damage well although the speed at lower tiers is quite low.

So I might try USN BBs.

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Besides battleships, Would you recommend USN cruisers for a beginner as I like playing cruisers and battleships

 

Thanks

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11 minutes ago, Amazing07 said:

Thanks, The USN BBs look like they tank damage well although the speed at lower tiers is quite low.

So I might try USN BBs.

USN suffer from using all-or-nothing armor scheme, which means they melt under HE fire and especially on tier 5-7 they can be overmatched (if shell is big enough it ignores ricochet rules). Coupled with their glacial 20kts until North Carolina they can be... frustrating at times.

 

11 minutes ago, Amazing07 said:

Besides battleships, Would you recommend USN cruisers for a beginner as I like playing cruisers and battleships

 

Thanks

Nothing wrong with Freedom cruisers, be it light or heavy variety. Keep in mind Omaha, tier 5 is last one to carry torpedoes which can be an issue if battleship is rushing you because, well, you don't have torps to hurt him badly.

 

IJN cruisers are as generalist as it can get. From tier 5 onwards (Furutaka) they switch to heavy cruisers, armed with hard hitting but slow reloading 203mm guns with Sake flavored HE shells for extra damage and fire chance, their torpedo armament is nothing to sneeze at either although facing rearwards. Add to that universally high top speed, around 35kts, decent concealment and you have one heck of allrounder

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8 minutes ago, Amazing07 said:

Besides battleships, Would you recommend USN cruisers for a beginner as I like playing cruisers and battleships

 

Thanks

For heavy cruisers I would go for IJN, as they are more "standard" with flatter arcs, great HE, still good AP, pretty well armored (apart from Mogami and Ibuki), sneaky and pack devestating torpedo volleys. But the US are not a bad starting point either, just that they don't get any real survivability until tier 8 and tend to have more floaty gun arcs the higher you go. Still the AP hits like a truck and they got good AA across the board. I would argue the IJN heavy cruisers are easier to play but the US are not that far behind in terms of difficulty.

 

The other US branch however is where it gets interesting (or cheesy, opinions vary). The light cruisers give you high DPM and comes with just about every cruiser consumable so adapting to almost any match up is pretty easy. As another bonus point they learn you about position and map knowledge, as their high firing arcs make firing over islands very easy. And while you can't use every island in other cruisers, you can still use most of them with a bit of positioning.

 

The clear downsides though is that they are more captain skill dependent (IFHE is mandatory pretty much) and very flimsy. Hug islands or explode violently is usually the norm if you try to pick a fight with something in open waters.

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11 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

For heavy cruisers I would go for IJN, as they are more "standard" with flatter arcs, great HE, still good AP, pretty well armored (apart from Mogami and Ibuki), sneaky and pack devestating torpedo volleys. But the US are not a bad starting point either, just that they don't get any real survivability until tier 8 and tend to have more floaty gun arcs the higher you go. Still the AP hits like a truck and they got good AA across the board. I would argue the IJN heavy cruisers are easier to play but the US are not that far behind in terms of difficulty.

 

The other US branch however is where it gets interesting (or cheesy, opinions vary). The light cruisers give you high DPM and comes with just about every cruiser consumable so adapting to almost any match up is pretty easy. As another bonus point they learn you about position and map knowledge, as their high firing arcs make firing over islands very easy. And while you can't use every island in other cruisers, you can still use most of them with a bit of positioning.

 

The clear downsides though is that they are more captain skill dependent (IFHE is mandatory pretty much) and very flimsy. Hug islands or explode violently is usually the norm if you try to pick a fight with something in open waters.

While I agree shells from USN light cruisers take their sweet time to get anywhere, mostly due to seeking for moon to hit, US 203mm ballistics are in line with Japanese ones, obviously except Zao. French 203mm are mildly better than both, then German Hipper grade 203mm, beaten by magic railguns of Zao/Donskoi/Moskva

 

Yuro series of "how to" can give decent insight on ships handling while delivering lots of kek, even if somewhat dated due to game changes

 

Indianapolis is as typical USN heavy cruiser as it can get for example.

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

While I agree shells from USN light cruisers take their sweet time to get anywhere, mostly due to seeking for moon to hit, US 203mm ballistics are in line with Japanese ones, obviously except Zao. French 203mm are mildly better than both, then German Hipper grade 203mm, beaten by magic railguns of Zao/Donskoi/Moskva

Which is why I said floaty arcs the higher you go. Up to tier 8 the arcs are basically the same as on the IJN, but on the Buffalo and Des Moines you do get the lazy arcs (I could be very mistaken about the Buffalo though).

 

And maybe this is just me but I found the HIV arcs to be pretty good close-medium range, but it feels like they loose a ton of velocity over longer ranges.

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Just now, ollonborre said:

Which is why I said floaty arcs the higher you go. Up to tier 8 the arcs are basically the same as on the IJN, but on the Buffalo and Des Moines you do get the lazy arcs (I could be very mistaken about the Buffalo though).

 

And maybe this is just me but I found the HIV arcs to be pretty good close-medium range, but it feels like they loose a ton of velocity over longer ranges.

HE shells are the same through entire US CA line, only change is superheavy AP from Baltimore onwards. Which compared to "regular" is barely any slower

regular AP (Indianapolis)

5km - 2.34s

10km - 5.60s

15km - 9.68s

 

SHS AP (Baltimore)

5km - 2.63s

10km - 6s

15km - 10.22s

 

HE on both

5km - 2.46s

10km - 5.85s

15km - 10.18s

 

With tiers up average engagement range goes up, so it becomes more noticeable though.

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6 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Which is why I said floaty arcs the higher you go. Up to tier 8 the arcs are basically the same as on the IJN

This is only True for the T6,T7s and the Wichita though. The Baltimore, Buffalo and Dem Memes get the super heavy USN AP which has a lower muzzle velocity and is where the notion of slow USN shells mostly stems from.

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8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

HE shells are the same through entire US CA line, only change is superheavy AP from Baltimore onwards. Which compared to "regular" is barely any slower

regular AP (Indianapolis)

5km - 2.34s

10km - 5.60s

15km - 9.68s

 

SHS AP (Baltimore)

5km - 2.63s

10km - 6s

15km - 10.22s

 

HE on both

5km - 2.46s

10km - 5.85s

15km - 10.18s

 

With tiers up average engagement range goes up, so it becomes more noticeable though.

 

7 minutes ago, rnat said:

This is only True for the T6,T7s and the Wichita though. The Baltimore, Buffalo and Dem Memes get the super heavy USN AP which has a lower muzzle velocity and is where the notion of slow USN shells mostly stems from.

I stand corrected then. Having only played the Buffalo and Dank Memes on the test server and the Pepsi on live I was under the impression Pepsi-Baltimore normal arcs, Buffalo-DM floaty.

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