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Why is the Mikhail Kutuzov seen as broken OP?

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With the drama around the Giulio Cesare and people asking for the Belfast. I feel the urge to ask about the one ship, of all broken ships, that I want to buy.

 

The Mikhail Kutuzov. Why is she seen as broken OP.? She doesn't seem to be much better than the Charles Martel. Even if you look at the 5% best players with that ship she only does 4000 av damage better. WIth 50% best players not even +2000 av  damage.

 

The periode of removal was prior the radar ships so far I can remember. Surely her OP status got a hit out of this?

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Because every new line goes live more powerfull than the olders one ( powercreep) tra and compare the kutzoff to the old new orleans and mogami stats, then we talk again.

New lines make the kutzoff look "normal"

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12 stronk HE guns with super long range with lasting smoke, makes for a bad meta... anyone around before the smoke and concealment changes will remember.

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yeah I'd agree Kutuzov as sort of been powercreeped into "only" really really good - the combination of smoke and those 6" guns is never going to be weak I don't think, and ensure she's not terribly affected by CV spotting either (since the ballistics are rock solid even at long range when you can't quite sneak in close). Would she have to be removed if she were added as a new ship today? I'm not sure... but at the same time, smoked-up HE spammers aren't really something this game needs more of, so I dont particularly want her to be sold again either...

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9 minutes ago, FooFaFie said:

With the drama around the Giulio Cesare and people asking for the Belfast....

TBH have been asking too about Belfast. But I wouldn't really want one, as it is sort of useless.

Sure it is a good ship, and if you are any good you can make good points with it. But it is too deviant to be usable as a captain-trainer.

 

Kutuzov, like Belfast, was 'pretty special' when it was new and maybe even OP. 

But now it is just kinda, well, "meh". I do not have it but met it lots of times. No way is it more fearsome than any other. 

Wouldn't buy it... 

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15 minutes ago, FooFaFie said:

The periode of removal was prior the radar ships so far I can remember. Surely her OP status got a hit out of this?

 

Less radar ships around back then is one two factors, the other being the stealthfire rework which means the MK gets spotted out to 7.7km when firing from smoke. Before any of that the MK was insanely powerful with its smokefiring (and torps if anyone wanted to try and rush her smoke). Still very powerful, but much more in line with the rest of the current powercreep.

 

But MK isn't the only unavailable premium ship that is past it's OP heyday. For example Gremyashchy these days after the open-sea stealthfire nerf also isn't exactly broken anymore. Still strong at tier V, but not as stupidly "can stealthfire in open seas with a 2km stealth window" OP.

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if either of those two ships come back one way or the other. Especially so since they're russian :Smile_trollface:. If the Guilio Cesare retiering goes ahead, I wouldn't even be surprised of they do the same with the Impreator Nikolai I. too to complete Comrade Trifecta.

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5 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

For example Gremyashchy these days after the open-sea stealthfire nerf also isn't exactly broken anymore. Still strong at tier V, but not as stupidly "can stealthfire in open seas with a 2km stealth window" OP.

it's "only" a stronger version of the silver ship a tier higher... :Smile_teethhappy:

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Just now, Tyrendian89 said:

it's "only" a stronger version of the silver ship a tier higher... :Smile_teethhappy:

Balans enough for russian premium, da.

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27 minutes ago, FooFaFie said:

The Mikhail Kutuzov. Why is she seen as broken OP.?

 

 

Mindless hysteria brought about by most people having zero ability to think for themselves and instead just parroting the thoughts of "famous" youtubers regardless of how out of date the opinion may be.

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I'd say that Kutuzov has been relegated to the "good" category by all the global changes. The smoke spotting change hit it a bit, as it has a 7km detection when firing from smoke. The CV rework nerfed the AA, as now you can't just pick AFT and AA gun mod 1 to create a no fly zone with the push of a button.  And with how people have become skilled in shooting into smoke the ship lost a lot of it's power, so right now it's not even close to being OP.

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18 minutes ago, CptMinia said:

12 stronk HE guns with super long range with lasting smoke, makes for a bad meta... anyone around before the smoke and concealment changes will remember.

But hitting a moving ship around 19km asks a lot of skill. And if you want to do a lot of damage you have to do it over and over again wit your  little 152mm guns.

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26 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

yeah I'd agree Kutuzov as sort of been powercreeped into "only" really really good - the combination of smoke and those 6" guns is never going to be weak I don't think, and ensure she's not terribly affected by CV spotting either (since the ballistics are rock solid even at long range when you can't quite sneak in close). Would she have to be removed if she were added as a new ship today? I'm not sure... but at the same time, smoked-up HE spammers aren't really something this game needs more of, so I dont particularly want her to be sold again either...

I never got impression of Kutuzov being OP, Chapayev stealth firing from 14km onwards was Bussian Rias incarnate though:cap_popcorn:

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6 minutes ago, FooFaFie said:

But hitting a moving ship around 19km asks a lot of skill. And if you want to do a lot of damage you have to do it over and over again wit your  little 152mm guns.

I'd say it mainly needs luck, and/or the victim not being aware he gets shot at. 

And even IF you hit... lots of sheep sacrificed to RNGesus.

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I looked it up. The Kutuzov is for update 0.5.2.

 

The game has changed a lot.

 

Spoiler

Nothing to do with Kutuzov but it's nice to see the promise of the IJN Tone (1:45) That ship was in the game :Smile_sad: Feels like a broken promise.

 

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10 minutes ago, FooFaFie said:

Feels like a broken promise. 

Are you surprised? WG has cultivated an image of being untrustworthy and double dealing. First they say no subs, then they announce subs. First they say "no nerfs to premiums", then they say "GC will be changed because it's too good".

Their words have no value.

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Kutuzov was a beast before all these radars, x marks the spot, smoke changes, stealth firing etc.

But still a very strong ship,

that strength comes from a combination of unusual range for a tier 8 cruiser and very flat, rail gun arcs of russian guns.

So it is not hard for the average player to shoot and hit a cruiser from 19 kms away with kutuzov,

you add that a long time smoke and torpedos, and give it to a very good player,

you have an extremely scary combination in your hands.

 

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In my opinion Kutuzov could be easily put back on sale as the shift in meta and the rework on radar and smoke made the ship more in line with its competitors at tier 8.

As someone already said, many ships perform better, especially high skill ones like Edinburgh or Cleveland.

Even Charles Martel, with its relatively easier HE-spamming gameplay has become better after the reload booster implementation.

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1 hour ago, FooFaFie said:

With the drama around the Giulio Cesare and people asking for the Belfast. I feel the urge to ask about the one ship, of all broken ships, that I want to buy.

 

The Mikhail Kutuzov. Why is she seen as broken OP.? She doesn't seem to be much better than the Charles Martel. Even if you look at the 5% best players with that ship she only does 4000 av damage better. WIth 50% best players not even +2000 av  damage.

 

The periode of removal was prior the radar ships so far I can remember. Surely her OP status got a hit out of this?

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

TBH have been asking too about Belfast. But I wouldn't really want one, as it is sort of useless.

Sure it is a good ship, and if you are any good you can make good points with it. But it is too deviant to be usable as a captain-trainer.

 

Kutuzov, like Belfast, was 'pretty special' when it was new and maybe even OP. 

But now it is just kinda, well, "meh". I do not have it but met it lots of times. No way is it more fearsome than any other. 

Wouldn't buy it... 

I made some stats tables a few days ago and both Kutuzov and belfast basically came on top of their respective classes (I'm disregarding Flint for now as it is kinda out of place here), but not by as much a margin as ships like Stalingrad or Cesare or Nikolai or (in a somewhat other way) the tier 5 and tier 6 premium DDs.

 

They are still very strong. They could actually survive a nerf BUT! I'd prefer WG to focus on the ships that are really broken (like Stalingrad and those DDs and Nikolai (I may have left out some ships)).

 

But otoh...if these premiums are not OP anymore, I'd actually want WG to sell them again, if only for a short while so relatively new players have a shot at getting one again as these were removed for being OP, basically.

 

I do want to put out a final note: Players who play these ships will often be rusty players coming back to the game after a long while and will likely drive down the stats of these ships so they may actually have weaker stats and look not-broken anymore. So I suspect that these ships may actually be more powerful than their stats show right now.

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

can stealthfire in open seas with a 2km stealth window

 

I remember it being much larger .. I thought it was something like 4.2 - 4.4km .. :cap_hmm:

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2 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

I remember it being much larger .. I thought it was something like 4.2 - 4.4km .. :cap_hmm:

 

Could be, is a whole while ago after all.

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I think it was OP when considered against the rather poor tech cruisers at the time at tier 8, but not so much now. 

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Back in the days MK compared very favorably to pre-nerf BFT+AFT 155mm Mogami, a ship that was considered extremely powerful by any standard (and was consequently nerfed hard), after she was buffed. This is primarily why she was considered overpowered especially since she got to keep all her attributes when other cruisers were nerfed with the BFT/AFT changes.

 

Nowadays though I wouldn't say MK is op. Strong yes, but not op.

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3 hours ago, FooFaFie said:

With the drama around the Giulio Cesare and people asking for the Belfast. I feel the urge to ask about the one ship, of all broken ships, that I want to buy.

 

The Mikhail Kutuzov. Why is she seen as broken OP.? She doesn't seem to be much better than the Charles Martel. Even if you look at the 5% best players with that ship she only does 4000 av damage better. WIth 50% best players not even +2000 av  damage.

 

The periode of removal was prior the radar ships so far I can remember. Surely her OP status got a hit out of this?

Its not really broken or ewven massive OP any longer. But back in the day when it came out it kind of was, atleast with some mediocre skilled captains. Smoke, fire spams with same range as Zao, torps and good AA. But still a papership that can be blapped by a T6 BB.

 

That said ......

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Smoke is always was and always will be very strong tool, if combined with awsome dps and radar/hydro its op as many ships proved, Lo Yang, Flint, Belfast, Black, Kutuzov, etc.

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I’m not sure. I seem to very well in the Irian.

On my experience alone I would suggest the Irian is the stronger ship. I might be alone in this but flooding the water with 20 torps with low detectability in the path of of battleships never gets old and synergises perfectly with those fire starting guns.

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