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Riggerby

Mino + Damage Saturation = :(

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As the title basically suggests, In Mino, i'm having an extremely torrid time when it comes to Damage saturation.

 

DD's are absolutely awful for it. If they face towards you / turn away, And only offer either the front or rear, After a certain amount of shots. They literally become immortal. Hundreds and hundreds of 0 damage penetrations. Every second you're firing and they're not dying is a second longer all the enemy cruisers and bb's have to train their guns at you and.. well.. we all know Mino is literally a floating damage pinyata.

 

Not just DD's though, Most things, Once you've saturated the Superstructure on things like Yamato and Kurfurst.. again.. They're literally immortal to you. There is physically no way to kill them bar torpedos. You have no HE to burn them and you don't have the pen to punch through their hull. 

 

Do you think Ships like Minotaur, And the other AP spammy British cruisers should have some sort of change in the way they operate with Saturation? Not completely voiding the mechanic, But. Maybe just do a very very small amount of damage on those penetrating hits in an already saturated area? (Im talking tiny damage btw, Like maybe even 50-75 hp per hit) just to make things not immortal

 

No other ship or class or nation suffers in regards to Saturation quite like British light cruisers (Bar belfast / Exeter) 

 

This video illustrates quite well what i mean : (Skip forward quite alot)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

I also realise the ''spammy'' ships liko Mino and Haragumo and such are universally hated and annoying, So most wont like any changes to Mino. But. Eh. Its very very very very agonising from a Mino perspective. Haha

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In such a case you will have to try and go for overpens, as they always do 10% damage, even when the area is saturated. You have to hit the smallest parts of the super structure by aiming as high on the ship as possible.

I'm not sure if a change to game mechanic is really necessary, as situations like in the video are extremely rare.

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14 minutes ago, AbsoluteCornflakes said:

In such a case you will have to try and go for overpens, as they always do 10% damage, even when the area is saturated. You have to hit the smallest parts of the super structure by aiming as high on the ship as possible.

I'm not sure if a change to game mechanic is really necessary, as situations like in the video are extremely rare.

They aren't that rare when the Enemy only shows you front or rear, And you only have a single area too shoot. If a BB bows on you, Once you've saturated the front of the superstructure. He's immortal. You cant pen deck, You autobounce hull, and you do nothing against structure.


All the light gun spammy ships suffer this, But, they can atleast switch to HE and rely on fires for damage. Mino is basically just buggered. Haha.

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19 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

All the light gun spammy ships suffer this, But, they can atleast switch to HE and rely on fires for damage. Mino is basically just buggered. Haha.

Thats the price for ability to vaporize anything sans German BB when given broadside. Keep in mind, Brit CL AP deals roughly the same damage as (in)famous IJN HE on heavy cruisers. With way, way, waaaaay higher rate of fire.

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1 hour ago, Riggerby said:

[...]

DD's are absolutely awful for it. If they face towards you / turn away, And only offer either the front or rear, After a certain amount of shots. They literally become immortal. Hundreds and hundreds of 0 damage penetrations. Every second you're firing and they're not dying is a second longer all the enemy cruisers and bb's have to train their guns at you and.. well.. we all know Mino is literally a floating damage pinyata.

[...]

I wouldn't say immortal but between bounces, dodging and some damage saturation they become really hard to knock out. I made a Minotaur lose 2/3 of his pool by gunfire while chasing my Kagero with less than half HP remaining, and he finally got me because I ran out of map (the pursuit was in Mountain Range standard mode, from his base to the eastern border IIRC). The trick is to catch them pants-off in a situation where they have to eventually give you broadside, and equipping radar provides plenty of opportunities to do so: early stages in domination, mainly at the side caps, and ambushes.

 

I find Minotaur to be heavily oriented towards support, hence the more utility you can provide to the team, the better. Spooking DDs out of caps is a way to deliver, and so is diverting fire from others while wiggling around. From my experience, if I slow down and try to play USN CL style glued to a rock then I'm dead meat.

 

Salute.

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5 hours ago, Riggerby said:

As the title basically suggests, In Mino, i'm having an extremely torrid time when it comes to Damage saturation.

 

DD's are absolutely awful for it. If they face towards you / turn away, And only offer either the front or rear, After a certain amount of shots. They literally become immortal. Hundreds and hundreds of 0 damage penetrations. Every second you're firing and they're not dying is a second longer all the enemy cruisers and bb's have to train their guns at you and.. well.. we all know Mino is literally a floating damage pinyata.

 

Not just DD's though, Most things, Once you've saturated the Superstructure on things like Yamato and Kurfurst.. again.. They're literally immortal to you. There is physically no way to kill them bar torpedos. You have no HE to burn them and you don't have the pen to punch through their hull. 

 

Do you think Ships like Minotaur, And the other AP spammy British cruisers should have some sort of change in the way they operate with Saturation? Not completely voiding the mechanic, But. Maybe just do a very very small amount of damage on those penetrating hits in an already saturated area? (Im talking tiny damage btw, Like maybe even 50-75 hp per hit) just to make things not immortal

 

No other ship or class or nation suffers in regards to Saturation quite like British light cruisers (Bar belfast / Exeter) 

 

This video illustrates quite well what i mean : (Skip forward quite alot)

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I also realise the ''spammy'' ships liko Mino and Haragumo and such are universally hated and annoying, So most wont like any changes to Mino. But. Eh. Its very very very very agonising from a Mino perspective. Haha

Holy balls I hope your where not wearing headphones, that din will give a headache, nice gameplay if that was you.:cap_like:

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7 hours ago, Panocek said:

Thats the price for ability to vaporize anything sans German BB when given broadside. Keep in mind, Brit CL AP deals roughly the same damage as (in)famous IJN HE on heavy cruisers. With way, way, waaaaay higher rate of fire.

Are you implying the Mino dont vaporize german BB broadsides too?

British semiAp dont differentiate between BB broadsides, provided you aren't silly enough to shoot the belt. They all take 2-5k volleys depending on saturation, distance and amount of shell hits per volley.

 

8 hours ago, Riggerby said:

They aren't that rare when the Enemy only shows you front or rear, And you only have a single area too shoot. If a BB bows on you, Once you've saturated the front of the superstructure. He's immortal. You cant pen deck, You autobounce hull, and you do nothing against structure.

How to put it....BBs are only really dangerous if Mino slows down, or if Mino is caught between 9 and 3 km without a smoke or handy waifu island.

 

Basically dont allow bbs into range when you cant torp them to kingdom come and for the rest, just go dark and ignore them untill in a better position.

 

Mino is the most position dependent ship in the game due to the nature of semiAp. Fortunately due to smoke, it is also free to pick any position it desires, basically limited only by creativity and skill of execution.

 

Will agree dds are stupidly tanky if bow/stern in, but that is to compensate for how fast Mino blows them out of the water if they show side.

I once met a fellow purple player in Z52 on scatter, B cap. We were basically bow in to each other at 3 km and he was steady enough not to flinch and turn out.

Took 3-4 mins to kill him with superstructure shots and cost half my hp to his teammates.

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12 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Are you implying the Mino dont vaporize german BB broadsides too?

British semiAp dont differentiate between BB broadsides, provided you aren't silly enough to shoot the belt. They all take 2-5k volleys depending on saturation, distance and amount of shell hits per volley.

Ze germans don't follow all-or-nothing scheme and they dared to reinforce upper hull enough to ignore CL guns at most ranges. So by shooting at center of mass at most combat ranges have only superstructure to play with. Not optimal when every other BB have basically entire length with exception of main belt.

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13 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Ze germans don't follow all-or-nothing scheme and they dared to reinforce upper hull enough to ignore CL guns at most ranges. So by shooting at center of mass at most combat ranges have only superstructure to play with. Not optimal when every other BB have basically entire length with exception of main belt.

Hmm what ranges are we talking? I farm my Bismarcks and Derpitzes from 7-11 km and GKs from a kilometer further out and they seem to melt away just fine.

If the guns cant blast through the upper belt (which  think they can at those ranges, but maybe i just aim higher), there is always the bow and stern isn't there?

 

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Just now, GulvkluderGuld said:

Hmm what ranges are we talking? I farm my Bismarcks and Derpitzes from 7-11 km and GKs from a kilometer further out and they seem to melt away just fine.

If the guns cant blast through the upper belt (which  think they can at those ranges, but maybe i just aim higher), there is always the bow and stern isn't there?

 

Those ranges and beyond. Its not hard to farm them due to their totally not massive superstructure. And bow/stern is valid target although kinda small. That and somehow every BB seeing hail of white enables angling_hax and options suddenly get limited.

 

Upper belt on ze Germans is around 150mm, same thickness as Des Moines citadel. And to punch through that with any sort of consistency from my experience, you need perfect broadside at <8km. Not ideal when every other BB have 32-50mm on the same place:Smile-_tongue:

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