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Robustius

Suggestion: The time had come to remove the free "ur detected" from the game

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In the early days of ships when radarships where a rare thing and u mostly had 1 or none in a game, when CV's where already nerfed (unless u wanted to be cannonfodder for superunicums) so hard that u rarely saw 1 in a game wg decided in patch 5.9 the following:

 

A popular skill, Situation Awareness, which displays a notification about the detection of enemy ships, is being given to everyone by default and removed from the commander-skills tree

 

I think the time has come to reverse this patch because:  

 

- 3-5 radarships 8-12 km radar range versus most DD torps are max 10

- a possible bonus CV that has nothing better to do then hunt DD for the first 10 minutes. 

- more and more ships with forever lasting hydro to spot pesky torps.

- rare but happens anyway, the BB, CV or CA with RPF.

- minimap or mods that show the last spot of a ship. (so no hoping he didnt see u for that split second u was to close)

 

I suggest the following:

 

 - Make the free "Situational Awareness" a 4 point captain skill or remove it completely.

"Situational Awareness" and "Priority Target" doesnt work on DD's .

 

This way the DD gets at least 1 weapon back to try to counter all the above. Torping a ship without him knowing hes being torped. 

Instead of the instant radars being popped, Carriers being called upon, Hydros activate everywhere , Ships that start taking evading manouvres the moment someone gets the "Ur detected" sign.

 

What are ur thoughts?

 

p.s.

T10 average damage:

 

BB 80-90 k damage

CA 60-80 k damage

DD 40-60 k damage

 

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What makes you think, that noone would take this skill then? I think the reason why it was removed from skill-tree was, that basicly everyone was using it anyway, as it gives such a strong bonus. Much like CE, its basicly a must have skill for almost every ship.

Radar being used because of being spotted doesnt work for every radar ship anyway. Most of the times, radar is being used because you can reach a spot where you know the DD is (like a cap).

 

Also im not sure, how it would help a DD when they cant use the skill :cap_hmm:

 

If you were to remove it completely:

I fear we would see the worst meta yet - every noob running away to the border or hide behind islands in their own spawn. I just think it would be horrible to play.

 

Imo PT and IFA could go - those are preventing bad players from learning anything really. They dont need to think about what they are doing, just act when the game tells you something is happening.

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Just now, DFens_666 said:

What makes you think, that noone would take this skill then? I think the reason why it was removed from skill-tree was, that basicly everyone was using it anyway, as it gives such a strong bonus. Much like CE, its basicly a must have skill for almost every ship.

Radar being used because of being spotted doesnt work for every radar ship anyway. Most of the times, radar is being used because you can reach a spot where you know the DD is (like a cap).

 

Also im not sure, how it would help a DD when they cant use the skill :cap_hmm:

 

If you were to remove it completely:

I fear we would see the worst meta yet - every noob running away to the border or hide behind islands in their own spawn. I just think it would be horrible to play.

 

Imo PT and IFA could go - those are preventing bad players from learning anything really. They dont need to think about what they are doing, just act when the game tells you something is happening.

Yup most ships apart from like, 2 or 3, have a larger detection range than Radar range. Off the top of my head I know the Chapyev can stealth radar but that was before the concealment nerf and not sure on the other two. The rest of the Ruskies have a least a 1km-2km gap between detection and radar. Hell in my Kiev I've baited radar out of them before by just going into it, letting them set off radar and then speed boosting at 48 knots back out of range and just waiting the 30 seconds until it's done.

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4 minuti fa, DFens_666 ha scritto:

What makes you think, that noone would take this skill then? I think the reason why it was removed from skill-tree was, that basicly everyone was using it anyway, as it gives such a strong bonus. Much like CE, its basicly a must have skill for almost every ship.

 

This! :Smile_great:

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How about no. 

 

You would instantly hobble new/starting players. The current method at least gives any player the clue that they have spotted and enables them to do something about it. They don't have to grind that ability out and thus are not at a disadvantage when playing against someone who has. 

 

That applies for any player of any class, BBs, DDs, the lot. 

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46 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

What makes you think, that noone would take this skill then? I think the reason why it was removed from skill-tree was, that basicly everyone was using it anyway, as it gives such a strong bonus

I propose to make it a 4 point captain skill exactly because its such a strong bonus as u pointed out.

 

33 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

You would instantly hobble new/starting players. The current method at least gives any player the clue that they have spotted and enables them to do something about it. They don't have to grind that ability out and thus are not at a disadvantage when playing against someone who has.

Atm u need zero skill with this free ability. U get detected warning in neon letters. Thats when u start moving, wiggling, hydro, radar, etc etc. So the DD makes all kind of effort to get into a torp position and all u do is. PING! ok lets act.

 

 

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This is one of the most if not the worst suggestion I have seen in here...

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Just now, Robustius said:

I propose to make it a 4 point captain skill exactly because its such a strong bonus as u pointed out.

 

Yes i know, but still? If the majority of the players cant afford to take that skill (or have to choose between CE/IFHE -> Situational awareness) then it will shift the balance even harder to the good players, as they are the ones running around with 19 pt captains, and KNOW what to skill.

Most ships only need 10 or 14 pt captains to perform on a good level. Everything after that is mostly QoL changes (getting less fires in a BB, stronger AA in a Cruiser, more dakka/torps in a DD).

So if i have to pick another skill after the must have build, situational awareness would still be better than getting a bit more AA (because CVs are not around in every match, while SA would help me every game)

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I don't think it's a good idea because people would get devstruck a whole lot more thus resulting in an ever more passive meta. 

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

es i know, but still? If the majority of the players cant afford to take that skill (or have to choose between CE/IFHE -> Situational awareness) then it will shift the balance even harder to the good players, as they are the ones running around with 19 pt captains, and KNOW what to skill.

Most ships only need 10 or 14 pt captains to perform on a good level. Everything after that is mostly QoL changes (getting less fires in a BB, stronger AA in a Cruiser, more dakka/torps in a DD).

So if i have to pick another skill after the must have build, situational awareness would still be better than getting a bit more AA (because CVs are not around in every match, while SA would help me every game)

1) Its about making choices how u want to spec ur captain and how u wanna play and at what costs. There should not be only 1 build and thats it.

2)19 point captains in the lower tiers are OP vs all new/bad players. Thats not restricted to that 1 skill.

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1 minute ago, Robustius said:

1) Its about making choices how u want to spec ur captain and how u wanna play and at what costs. There should not be only 1 build and thats it.

 

Oh i agree with that. Sadly, stronger skills will always have the priority. CE for example. If a bad players thinks, he rather takes FP than Situational Awareness, then its his choice. Doesnt mean, that FP is actually better than the other one. And thats what im trying to say here.

In order for having different builds, these builds MUST be viable equally often as the other one. A secondary specced BB is not always useful. However, a tank Build BB is almost guaranteed useful.

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3 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I don't think it's a good idea because people would get devstruck a whole lot more thus resulting in an ever more passive meta. 

Even more passive? How is that even possible? It might have a more active effect for ill i can guess. People will play more agressive because at some point they run out of map and are easier to torp? Like beter go in now instead of waiting for the inevitable?

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6 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Oh i agree with that. Sadly, stronger skills will always have the priority. CE for example. If a bad players thinks, he rather takes FP than Situational Awareness, then its his choice. Doesnt mean, that FP is actually better than the other one. And thats what im trying to say here.

In order for having different builds, these builds MUST be viable equally often as the other one. A secondary specced BB is not always useful. However, a tank Build BB is almost guaranteed useful.

I think people are used these days to google for best builds in most games. Even the bad players. If the people still not pick it its a choice because u want other strenghts and thats how it should be. It should  come at a cost so that ur weaker in other departments.

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1 hour ago, Robustius said:

In the early days of ships when radarships where a rare thing and u mostly had 1 or none in a game, when CV's where already nerfed (unless u wanted to be cannonfodder for superunicums) so hard that u rarely saw 1 in a game wg decided in patch 5.9 the following:

 

A popular skill, Situation Awareness, which displays a notification about the detection of enemy ships, is being given to everyone by default and removed from the commander-skills tree

 

I think the time has come to reverse this patch because:  

 

- 3-5 radarships 8-12 km radar range versus most DD torps are max 10

- a possible bonus CV that has nothing better to do then hunt DD for the first 10 minutes. 

- more and more ships with forever lasting hydro to spot pesky torps.

- rare but happens anyway, the BB, CV or CA with RPF.

- minimap or mods that show the last spot of a ship. (so no hoping he didnt see u for that split second u was to close)

 

I suggest the following:

 

 - Make the free "Situational Awareness" a 4 point captain skill or remove it completely.

"Situational Awareness" and "Priority Target" doesnt work on DD's .

 

This way the DD gets at least 1 weapon back to try to counter all the above. Torping a ship without him knowing hes being torped. 

Instead of the instant radars being popped, Carriers being called upon, Hydros activate everywhere , Ships that start taking evading manouvres the moment someone gets the "Ur detected" sign.

 

What are ur thoughts?

 

 

Sounds like you want to make it more like WoT? No thanks.

 

This skill is too good to miss out on.

Quote

I suggest the following:

 

 - Make the free "Situational Awareness" a 4 point captain skill or remove it completely.

"Situational Awareness" and "Priority Target" doesnt work on DD's .

Another DD main spotted?

Never enough buffs to DD. Never enough nerfs to anything that isn't a DD.

So you gonna start complaining about radar next? Or hydro? oh wait you are alraedy complaining about everlasting hydro which is in fact not even possible in this game. How cute, another suggestion to make the most OP class in the game even more OP.

 

Lets not. DD is already easy enough to play as it is. Can't even pen the bloody buggers anymore and some DDs can even outgun some cruisers which are supposed to be DD hunters :Smile_facepalm:

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9 minutes ago, Robustius said:

Even more passive? How is that even possible? 

Don't be so dumb. You know perfectly well that this game has dynamics and that these dynamics fluctuate. Heck, you got even higher winrate than I have so you know all this. And so you are playing dumb with us here. Cut the crap please, thank you.

 

Nice troll. Sure fooled me once.

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8 minutes ago, Robustius said:

Even more passive? How is that even possible? It might have a more active effect for ill i can guess. People will play more agressive because at some point they run out of map and are easier to torp? Like beter go in now instead of waiting for the inevitable?

Yeah almost impossible right? :Smile_teethhappy: but what I was thinking was: people now atleast know there is a ship (DD) in their spotting range so they can take evasive manoeuvres. When spotted they know they are prone to longe range bb snipes if they do not take evasive manoeuvres. If this skill is removed people will either get blapped or torp every time without a single warming. That makes them sit back until all enemies are spotted. 

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3 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Another DD main spotted?

Never enough buffs to DD. Never enough nerfs to anything that isn't a DD.

So you gonna start complaining about radar next? Or hydro? oh wait you are alraedy complaining about everlasting hydro which is in fact not even possible in this game. How cute, another suggestion to make the most OP class in the game even more OP.

Me               U

15% CV       2% CV

35% DD       14%DD

21% CA       32%CA

30% BB       51% BB

 

I think i can form a more unbiased opinion then u. BB super main?

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2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Yeah almost impossible right? :Smile_teethhappy: but what I was thinking was: people now atleast know there is a ship (DD) in their spotting range so they can take evasive manoeuvres. When spotted they know they are prone to longe range bb snipes if they do not take evasive manoeuvres. If this skill is removed people will either get blapped or torp every time without a single warming. That makes them sit back until all enemies are spotted. 

I think the effect will be smaller then u anticipate. (hard to tell ofc. but maybe WG will let us test it on the live server like they do with CV) :Smile_hiding:

At the moment there are so many factors that prevent this from happening alot. Its more like a small bonus. Like u will be able to snipe a lone camping BB or sitting still CV.

The rest is guarded by early-midgame radars, enemy DD, CV planes etc etc.

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14 minutes ago, Robustius said:

Me               U

15% CV       2% CV

35% DD       14%DD

21% CA       32%CA

30% BB       51% BB

 

I think i can form a more unbiased opinion then u. BB super main?

Of course attacking the messenger is easier then to attack the message.

 

Anyway, I play DD mostly these days.

Spoiler

Warships stats by type

 
Battles
Win rate
PR
Average Damage
Avg. frags
Avg. planes destroyed
34 55.88% 1 392 36 706 0.97 3.71
Cruiser 27 77.78% 1 804 53 092 0.81 4.22
24 45.83% 1 255 78 133 0.92 5
Aircraft Carrier 8 62.5% 1 317 33 871 1.25 5.25

Most battles were played in Texas and Missouri because I needed credits and I didn't have any other premium ships (and in ops I play mostly CC and DD, but those stats are not counted statistically).

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19 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Yeah almost impossible right? :Smile_teethhappy: but what I was thinking was: people now atleast know there is a ship (DD) in their spotting range so they can take evasive manoeuvres. When spotted they know they are prone to longe range bb snipes if they do not take evasive manoeuvres. If this skill is removed people will either get blapped or torp every time without a single warming. That makes them sit back until all enemies are spotted. 

This is exactly what will be happening a lot more I think. But frankly, I think OP is just trolling.

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The reason it was made universal was because every halfway competent player used the Situational Awareness perk because it provided such valuable information. Nothing wuld change now if you reintroduced it as a captain perk, or by making it more expensive. It is such valuable information that people will simply drop other captain perks for it.

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Let's not.

 

I mean, it's going to make BBs.... maybe get torped a bit more, but otherwise not going to make much of a difference. It's going to raise the skill floor on DDs a fair bit, but not really make them any less powerful in good hands. And it's going to make thinly skinned cruisers even more of a pain in the arse to play than they are now.

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2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

The reason it was made universal was because every halfway competent player used the Situational Awareness perk because it provided such valuable information. Nothing wuld change now if you reintroduced it as a captain perk, or by making it more expensive. It is such valuable information that people will simply drop other captain perks for it.

I think hardly anyone would want to see this skill revert back to one which needs to be purchased, like it is in WoT now.

I'd actually advice WoT to implement it the way that WoWS has it implemented instead of the other way around :Smile-_tongue:

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4 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

The reason it was made universal was because every halfway competent player used the Situational Awareness perk because it provided such valuable information. Nothing wuld change now if you reintroduced it as a captain perk, or by making it more expensive. It is such valuable information that people will simply drop other captain perks for it.

i know, but dont u think that a skill so powerfull versus only 1 class should come at a big cost for the classes profiting from it?

 

I would for sure want a free or 4 point skill on my ships that can make an airstrike useless.

or a free or 4 point skill to counter a 1 click no skill radar.

etc etc

 

My point being that the situational awarness skill only punishes 1 class.

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7 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I think hardly anyone would want to see this skill revert back to one which needs to be purchased, like it is in WoT now.

I'd actually advice WoT to implement it the way that WoWS has it implemented instead of the other way around :Smile-_tongue:

Another advantage of wows spotted indicator is that it works instantly instead of a 3 second delay like in wot, imo it makes more sense to have the delayed indicator in here considering the pace of both games :P. But yes wot should also have that baked in as well(heard wot blitz aready does this)

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