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Admiral_H_Nelson

WG - Please don't release Premium Ships until they have been properly reviewed

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Recently several premium ships were released for sale which had important changes made to them since they were reviewed - Prinz Eitel Friedrich, Wichita and Exeter (Smoke & Reload)

I'm not arguing about the changes. In fact I salute Wargaming for responding to feedback about the strengths of these ships and trying to make them more balanced.:Smile_honoring:

 

The issue I have is that the only thing that prospective buyers have are old reviews. This has two drawbacks for the potential buyer.

1) Those buyers  who know that the reviews are old ones are effectively buying "Blind"

2) Those buyers who DO NOT KNOW that the reviews are old ones are effectively buying using misleading information.

(Yes, I know that it says work in progress, but how are they to know that changes have been made)

 

Suggested solutions:

a) Never release a ship unless a core of CCs (Who are company associates after all) have reviewed it, or

b) Come clean and publish a list of last-minute post-review changes in the decription of the ship in the premium shop.

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I agree fully here.

 

I think over the years that its misleading to show early videos and get the hype up and wallets ready from potential customers, only to change them last minute.

 

And dont get me started on changing old premiums later, for that I want the option to get real money back. That is a matter of prinicple to keep my faith in this company.

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The other thing to keep in mind about the late changes is "has there been enough time and games to see if the final version of the ship is indeed balanced and plays how WG wants it to"?

 

I somehow doubt that is the case.

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Wasn't it the exact same with the release of the german DD line 2 years ago?

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Could go so far to say, its intentional?

First showcase something which is borderline OP (or straight up better than something else), so many players will go like "hell yeah i want that". Then change something, to bring it more in line with the other ships

Profit...

 

Even compare RN CVs to the old lines. People like Flamu play them in stream, and they easily deal 200k damage. While the old lines get nerfed at the same time. Now everyone is like "i want the RN CVs ASAP" = spend (money) FreeXP to get to T10. (can be even said, to get the T8 CV currently in the arsenal, since you cant get that one for free imo)

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Maybe don't buy premiums on day one, instead wait for proper reviews before buying.

 

 

 

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Proper old reviews are sometimes not updated though nor updated later. Sometimes all we have to go on is old reviews and then rumours of that has happened.

 

Its almost like some CC dont want to update their opinion/videos and change the perspective of semi-old premiums.

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How was PEF changed right before its release? The other 2 - I saw their final versions reviewed before ships were released.

 

It’s not WGs fault some (or most) CCs rush to review the 1st version they get because hype, and then say f:etc_swear: you if you want to see a later version of the ship as that’s “old news” at that point

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T

1 hour ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Recently several premium ships were released for sale which had important changes made to them since they were reviewed - Prinz Eitel Friedrich, Wichita and Exeter (Smoke & Reload)

I'm not arguing about the changes. In fact I salute Wargaming for responding to feedback about the strengths of these ships and trying to make them more balanced.:Smile_honoring:

 

The issue I have is that the only thing that prospective buyers have are old reviews. This has two drawbacks for the potential buyer.

1) Those buyers  who know that the reviews are old ones are effectively buying "Blind"

2) Those buyers who DO NOT KNOW that the reviews are old ones are effectively buying using misleading information.

(Yes, I know that it says work in progress, but how are they to know that changes have been made)

 

Suggested solutions:

a) Never release a ship unless a core of CCs (Who are company associates after all) have reviewed it, or

b) Come clean and publish a list of last-minute post-review changes in the decription of the ship in the premium shop.

God you again.......... :Smile-_tongue:

 

Ok first lets get this out there..I have a huge advantage as i get to test the ships.... BUT

 

There is a reason CC's are told to make the "A work in progress" on all there reviews. If players want to buy a ship they really should read the information in the shop and follow the links to the Wiki. that is in the purchase page.

Most of the changes were and are discussed on youtube before the release (Exeter losing smoke i'm looking at you)

 

Ive bought  ships the morning of release as well.. But the ships i have bought without reading about them first are ships with Historical or personal significance to me.

 

(Yes, I know that it says work in progress, but how are they to know that changes have been made)

By reading the details about the ship on the shop or following the link in the shop to the Wiki.

 

The only issue I have had with the shop and the release is when they released a ship in shop in morning and told us about a marathon to get it for free in the afternoon evening. (HMAS Vampire) and WG accepted that was wrong and offered me a refund.

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...and why even show or review a product that is not finished? 

 

Ofc WG wants that, so they can trump up hype for something that never was.

 

Yes you as a tester cant feel the normal customers persective here.

Ofc CCs and testers wants to show to present a show and make money and a bit of recognition.

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36 minutes ago, gbgroger said:

...and why even show or review a product that is not finished? 

 

Ofc WG wants that, so they can trump up hype for something that never was.

 

Yes you as a tester cant feel the normal customers persective here.

Ofc CCs and testers wants to show to present a show and make money and a bit of recognition.

Rubbish.. Sorry CC's show there videos because the player base want to see them.. 

 

Back in the day CC's were not allowed to publish Videos till after the release of the ship..  THE COMMUNITY wanted this to change... so wargaming allowed CC's to publish and talk about the ships

 

There is no substitute to reading the release notes in the Premium shop. and or waiting a few days for the new/updated reviews  to get out.

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If people actually read some topics they would know..

Some sailors pick only for example the bad reviews only to comment on them.

 

One question more about it why not buying it with free xp. now new players who doesn't even know how to shoot buy the Alaska and getting in high tier ... 

Don't understand the choice, for more experienced gamers this would be frustrating.  so for the veteran Captains keep you head cool ;-)

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I must have missed that COMMUNITY wanted that, strange thought since Im a veteran from closed beta.

 

It may be rubbish to you and I get that everybody wants to see the cult of the upcoming ships, but not too early and before they are ready for release. Then dont call them reviews etc.

I can think of soo many premiums that were very much changed and that made them much worse or less fun than was shown in the videos. This now raises the issue that WG wants to raise

the hype with OP/fun ships and by that artifically raise sales figures AND this also makes me lose confidence that ships shown are not what we later get. Im sorry you dont seem to understand this.

 

Anyways, I suggest that you are biased on this subject as u are a tester and this is commonplace for you that ships changed before release.

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3 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

There is no substitute to reading the release notes in the Premium shop.

while I do agree with the rest of your sentiment, this just plain doesn't work.

There are no details in the Premium shop, let alone what might have changed over the various testing iterations.

And recently, "latest changes" aren't even anywhere close to the latest patch notes - Wichita, for example, had its final changes sometime in December if I recall? And then there's the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise Saga of the Alaska, which took... what... half a year? That's a lot of digging to expect from people, and Google is strangely temperamental at serving up the right devblog entries in my experience.

Plus which, many CCs dont bother putting out another updated review when ships finally do release after months in limbo (LWM being an admirable exception here)...

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2 hours ago, quickr said:

Maybe don't buy premiums on day one, instead wait for proper reviews before buying.

 

 

 

 

The issue with that is that some recent premiums - such as DoY, Hood, PEF and Exeter - are released together with time-gated campaigns that have optional missions for those ships.

 

I expect that many buyers look at these campaign optional tasks/rewards as part of the "value proposition" for buying the premium and, if that is a factor in their purchase decision, then it makes no sense to delay purchase of the ship.

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1 hour ago, Tyrendian89 said:

while I do agree with the rest of your sentiment, this just plain doesn't work.

There are no details in the Premium shop, let alone what might have changed over the various testing iterations.

And recently, "latest changes" aren't even anywhere close to the latest patch notes - Wichita, for example, had its final changes sometime in December if I recall? And then there's the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise Saga of the Alaska, which took... what... half a year? That's a lot of digging to expect from people, and Google is strangely temperamental at serving up the right devblog entries in my experience.

Plus which, many CCs dont bother putting out another updated review when ships finally do release after months in limbo (LWM being an admirable exception here)...

But the comments in the shop are...

HMS EXETER for example says nothing about having smoke but douse say she has heal. It also gives her the correct 15 second MG reload.

and as for Witchita and Alaska is there wargaming wiki page wrong? 

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Maybe they should do a rent for 7 days first.

 

let say they release release a new ship at update 8.0.2.. Than you can rent that new ship during 21 days  for 7 days each time. Which means by day 29 nobody has that ship and you can change the stats where needed. After you can sell that ship with the new stats.

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Dear All,

 

@Admiral_H_Nelson,

 

Dear Friend, you need to add a third option

c) read the package of the product you are buying to learn what the contents are. Don't be a blind buyer.

 

But, for argument's sake let's concentrate on the company practices and not the player's uninformed purchases.

Let us make the assumption that WG indeed follows these marketing practices that are described in the posts of this thread.

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Could go so far to say, its intentional?

Let's also accept that DFens_666 is right and they are intentional.

 

However, we should also note that the Market is a cut-throat place.

Increasing the hype for a product is not a new practice. How many films have you seen the trailers long before they hit the screen? How many interviews with the cast members, the director, the producers. And then the film is just a flunk. Well the trailer never told you that the film is a flunk. Nor did the cast, the director or the producers. Same here, they show "trailers", "interviews" call it whatever.

 

The problem is not with the practice of WG. They are in business for money. You should expect them to do whatever it takes to increase their sales. As a matter of fact you should be angry at them if they did not do so. Because this would mean that the game we love and want to play is in jeopardy as the company that runs it doesn't do what they have to do in order to make profit. And, you know, no profit (or small profit) for the company - no game for you and me.

 

The problem is with the gullibility and the credulity of the player base.

 

Who told them to rush and see the film on the first day of the release? let it play a few days and read the rotten tomatoes.

Same here. Play against the ship a few games. See how it fares as your opponent. Let the updated reviews come out. Do you really need to buy the darn boat on minute 1? As if you don't live on planet earth in the western world and you don't know what marketing is.

 

It is my fault if I buy a junk boat. Not the seller's fault. Unless, the seller misled me. But then again it's my stupidity for not looking into the subject a bit deeper.

 

But that's only my opinion.

 

Regards

Saltface 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Saltface said:

 

 How many films have you seen the trailers long before they hit the screen?
 

Who told them to rush and see the film on the first day of the release? let it play a few days and read the rotten tomatoes.

 

 

"How many films have you seen the trailers long before they hit the screen? "

Plenty - but I'd be pretty upset if something in the trailer that really attracted me to the film never made it through the final edit of the film!

(In Exeter's case....smoke)

 

"Who told them to rush and see the film on the first day of the release? let it play a few days and read the rotten tomatoes."

Good advice IF IT COULD BE FOLLOWED

 

We don't have an equivalent of "rotten tomatoes" in WoWS because the reviewers rarely go back and review the ship that was actually released.

LittleWhiteMouse sometimes provides an up-to-the-minute review but not this time. The only review that I can find is the pre-nerf version here:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/181906-premium-ship-preview-hms-exeter-080/

 

The reason that I'm so enervated by this is that a RN cruiser with HE is attractive. (I've made my views on the AP only tech tree RN cruisers clear to the point of annoying everyone)

But I need expert info or direct personal experience before taking the plunge. Heck I would even try renting it if it was available! :Smile_smile:

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The opinion of someone else is not more then an opinion.

 

Massachusetts is called a 'mehbote' by Littlewhitemouse. Yet i consider it an insanely versatile and strong ship!! Her verdict is unbelievable imho.

 

Form your own opinion by playing against a ship. Just don't buy on day one.

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I see what OP means as i was surprised too the Exeter does not have smoke, similair ships do, and in testing YT'ers/streamers showed it then still had.

 

But....

 

I really question the worth of many of these "tests" Many of my favorite premium ships were reviewed as "Garbage" or ""Mehbote" But i often see them well/high performing in randoms and operations by others, and in my service they are often my favorites capable of some serious sh%t with a custom to their specific strenghts build and use.

 

WG balanced these ships - all ships - in a certain role, for a certain purpose. If you perform that role these ships are never bad.

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I bought Exeter on day one (because I'm an idiot, and it's Exeter), but I wasn't expecting splendour - I'd kept vaguely abreast of the changes via the forum, so the lack of smoke didn't come as a surprise, plus she's a T5 cruiser, which isn't a category noted for terrifying colossi...!

 

A couple of observations though: I suck in just about everything, so the difference for me between OP Magnificence and something awful is often not actually that tangible; also, I waste far too much time on the forum keeping up to date with whatever news the WOWS Young People are talking about. Both factors mean I'm not that often horribly disappointed in a new ship. In that, I'm probably not hugely typical.

 

I suspect the average farty would find it very helpful if some sort of coordination could be organised between at least a few reviewers, and the release date of ships, not least because the blurb on the sales page is designed to sell the premium in question, and can be a trifle, erm, over-enthusiastic. Whilst no specific examples come galloping to mind, I do tend to ignore the WG sales pages (at least in terms of what's good/bad about the ship in question) on the grounds that in the past, I've usually found very little overlap between a ships' actual strong points, and what WG say they are...

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1 hour ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

But I need expert info or direct personal experience before taking the plunge.

 

2 hours ago, Saltface said:

Play against the ship a few games. See how it fares as your opponent.

 

1 hour ago, RigorMortis76 said:

Form your own opinion by playing against a ship.

 

Don't take me wrong. I understand the frustration. But, and its a big but, we are supposed to be thinking adults.

Lets take our responsibilities.

We are not babies that need safe spaces and protection from the evil corporations.

 

And, @Admiral_H_Nelson how many times have you seen a meh film that was below your expectations (expectations built on the basis of trailers)? Come on mate, you got my example. 

 

And by the way, Rotten Tomatoes is us. We can form our own opinions and post them here.

 

Regards

Saltface

 

 

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3 hours ago, Saltface said:

Who told them to rush and see the film on the first day of the release? let it play a few days and read the rotten tomatoes.

 

Considering what RT just did to hide the embarrassment of only 27% of users wanting to see the new Marvel film, this is not such a good example I think!

 

How many reviews are out there that do get updated? OP has a good point IMHO.

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1 hour ago, Saltface said:

 

We are not babies that need safe spaces and protection from the evil corporations.

 

And, @Admiral_H_Nelson how many times have you seen a meh film that was below your expectations (expectations built on the basis of trailers)? Come on mate, you got my example. 

 

 

 

I think this is just ignorant and insulting to players. You say read the WG blurb about the product, but they always buff its qualities up, while the CC reviews often subsequently nerf its qualities down.

 

This is a product that you buy to use, it isn't a film that you hire to consume for two hours. If you were buying a car on the first day of release you'd be lucky to do it because there would have been a 'pre-order period', and actually people thinking about it on the first day of release may have to wait months. In those months they get to see reviews and can change their minds. These are things you can kick, not pixels that can be released instantly, so due diligence can't be achieved until the point the product has genuinely been tested in a realistic environment. 

 

There are many reasons a player would buy a ship on the first day of release, but going by what WG say about it is about the worst qualifier possible, they just want to sell it after all. So very few products reach the public without a vast number of reviews and customer satisfaction surveys feeding the buying power of the majority of late adopters. The pixel universe is the obverse, hype is only created by the manufacturer, and only in the pixel world can hype be instantly delivered as a product.

 

We should all know better, but the holy grail is the thing WG dangle in front of players, and it's not like the Exeter is a bad ship. But the manipulation comes with the marathon that seems out of reach for many players to complete, or the 'easy' Commanders Pack. If this was the real world it would be like believing your washing will come out amazingly whiter if you buy the powder right now, rather than wait a month or so until your stockist has some on the shelf, by which time the excitement may well have worn off.

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