Can USN CAs(heavy cruisers) get a buff or something?

[Nasty_Ninja]

Note: I only have experience up to New Orleans.

 

USN CAs feel underpowered/ heavily power creeped, to the point that even IJN DDs rush me.(I have tried every single trick in the book to avoid them, including combining both hydro and vigilance, still seeing significant percentage of them doing this. And no, it does not mean I keep getting killed, I manage to kill them with the help of some other boats present, it’s just the behaviour that I noticed vs my Dallas. However if I’m am on my own, depending on what type of DD is it, I can get downright killed while unable to do anything) Even one of the remaining advantages that CAs has, the AA, has been taken away with the cv rework, being a joke to same tier CLs. The auto bounce AP on them now feels lacking due to the still rather random nature of AP and dispersion compared to the reliable high HE DPM of the cl line, and the inherent fact that as soon as you are spotted in a cruiser, every BB will just drop what they are doing to shoot at you, and you will die cause of the rather large citadel that all of them have.

Finally not having torps means that as soon you are the last ship on the flank, every single red ship will try to rush you while you are unable to do anything except run as fast as you can, while if there is still a crusier with torps of something you can see the hesitation in them.

 

My Proposed buffs/improvements:

• all Lower tier CAs(t6 and 7)get a new gun module which has access to the super heavy shells, which also Carries over to the next ship in line(I’m not entirely sure if that is even possible in here) obviously the shells fly slower then the regular ones.
• Faster Damcon cool-down or heal for all USN heavy cruisers
•  increased range for all of them. 15-16km was probably okay back then when there is not much boat variety, now with all that damage and HE being thrown around I find that I often require upwards of 17-18km to actually do something and not get immediately killed cause 15km is definitely inside BB effective range, and since they are not the fastest things in the world it can take quite some time to get out, or not even able to.
•  improve their accuracy in the form of higher sigma/better dispersion formula.
• some armor improvements, as in get the improved upper belt/deck thing for heavy crusiers that I have seen some people mentioned out aready.
• (Quetionable) give New Orleans and Pensacola Radar, the short duration and the short range one similar to the one found on indianapolis, or a worse version of it. At the same time also make indianapolis a t6 cruiser.
•  Waterline citadels, so they take lol random citadel from random place far more rarely, but should still get punished for showing broadside for a extended periods.

[Miki12345]

I am not sure if you are trolling but USN heavy cruisers are one of the best cruisers do to support roles or being solo DPM flankers. Most of them get Superheavy AP shells with increases penetration angles. The NO and Pensacola are great ships if used right, your proposed improvements do not fit the tier.

 

Besides, you are only on the New Orleans, grind further up the line and it will, hopefully, change your experience. 

[Nasty_Ninja]

8 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

I am not sure if you are trolling but USN heavy cruisers are one of the best cruisers do to support roles or being solo DPM flankers. Most of them get Superheavy AP shells with increases penetration angles. The NO and Pensacola are great ships if used right, your proposed improvements do not fit the tier.

 

Besides, you are only on the New Orleans, grind further up the line and it will, hopefully, change your experience. 

Fair enough I suppose. However your are wrong on most have superheavy AP part, only t8 and above have that, t6 and 7 gets the regular ap that still have improved pen angles, so technically 2/5 does not have superheavy shells.

 

on the support/ flanker role, you may as well take a German one for the support, and a fast french or IJN crusier for the flanking, due to the overeliance on island hugging just to surive.

[loppantorkel]

I agree to some extent. I see no need to buff them vs dds, but I think they need a slight buff against light cruisers in mid tiers.

 

I'd shorten the AP fuse a slight bit to reduce the risk of AP overpenning the citadel vs broadside light cruisers at short ranges. I think that's all what's needed.

[HaachamaShipping]

I must admit, the only USN CAs I played are Pensacola, Indianapolis and (actually a CB) Alaska, but from what I saw with Indianapolis, DDs aren't really an issue. Not more than they'd be for a Yorck or Algerie. And Indy is a CA that has both bad dpm for its tier and armour that DDs can pen without IFHE. Against non-DDs, USN CAs lack torps, but those shells do hit hard, even on angled boats.

[loppantorkel]

Not sure how relevant this is now since stats change by the week, but I think it's fairly safe to say that Pensa and New Orleans aren't overperforming at least.

 

Spoiler

 

[Miki12345]

They are not overperforming because they are balanced, who would have thought. They are not easy ships to play. You guys need more experience in them and a bit more patience when playing them. 

29 minutes ago, Nasty_Ninja said:

Fair enough I suppose. However your are wrong on most have superheavy AP part, only t8 and above have that, t6 and 7 gets the regular ap that still have improved pen angles, so technically 2/5 does not have superheavy shells.

You know what the word "most" means? 

[loppantorkel]

6 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

They are not overperforming because they are balanced, who would have thought. They are not easy ships to play. You guys need more experience in them and a bit more patience when playing them.

Most ships are fairly balanced. That doesn't mean you can't tweak some of them to make them better balanced. Who would've thought..?

 

edit: so you've played a grand total of 2 Pensacola games and 0 New Orleans games post US cruiser line rework?

[howardxu_23]

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

Not sure how relevant this is now since stats change by the week, but I think it's fairly safe to say that Pensa and New Orleans aren't overperforming at least.

 

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In my opinion, I disagree. Yes while they are not far off from 50% winrate, they still have the lowest winrate compared to other crusiers of the same tier(disregarding prenuims and limited edition ship). The USN CLs for the same tier seems to do significantly better in terms of Dallas vs pespican(52.58% vs 49.34%) with having near similar playrates, and Helena(52%) vs New Orleans(49.26%), but can be considered outlier since NO has more the twice the battles played vs Helena.  Buffalo also needs something. Baltimore and Des Moines are however fine.

 

For buffing I would agree with some additional range, and superheavies for all USN CAs that has them. 

 

for tips I say try loading AP and sticking with AP unless you are trying to kill DDs specifically or if ship goes bow in to you.

[Miki12345]

"Better balanced" now thats a term. The ships are fine. They dont need any tweaking. These guys are fairly new to the game and are only on the t7 and t6 ships. They should spend more time playing before asking for such tweaks. 

[Aragathor]

12 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Not sure how relevant this is now since stats change by the week, but I think it's fairly safe to say that Pensa and New Orleans aren't overperforming at least.

 

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A quick look at the weekly stats published here told me the following:

-Pensacola is at the bottom together with Nürnberg.

-New Orleans and Indianapolis are also in a bad spot.

-Baltimore is ok, either average or above.

-Buffalo sucks in WR but not in damage.

-Des Moines is in a great place. Salem however is not.

 

Wichita is too new.

 

In effect the ships need to be looked at individually, as their performance at their respective tiers differs.

[loppantorkel]

1 minute ago, Miki12345 said:

"Better balanced" now thats a term. The ships are fine. They dont need any tweaking. These guys are fairly new to the game and are only on the t7 and t6 ships. They should spend more time playing before asking for such tweaks. 

Really? I'm new here?

 

How many Pensacola and New Orleans games have you played after US cruiser line rework?

[hgbn_dk]

Success keys for USN heavy cruisers is positioning and knowing when to switch ammo.

[loppantorkel]

2 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

A quick look at the weekly stats published here told me the following:

-Pensacola is at the bottom together with Nürnberg.

-New Orleans and Indianapolis are also in a bad spot.

-Baltimore is ok, either average or above.

-Buffalo sucks in WR but not in damage.

-Des Moines is in a great place. Salem however is not.

 

Wichita is too new.

 

In effect the ships need to be looked at individually, as their performance at their respective tiers differs.

Agreed. I've stated that I only like to see a slight AP fuse buff to Pensacola and New Orleans. This should make them counter IFHE cruisers better, bringing their respective WRs down a bit.

[Miki12345]

4 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Really? I'm new here?

 

How many Pensacola and New Orleans games have you played after US cruiser line rework?

I played them when they were uptiered and were absolute poo poo and i managed to do well. Also played them stock. If anything they should be better than before. So I do not see your point. 

 

Edit: i did not mean you are new here

[loppantorkel]

1 minute ago, Miki12345 said:

I played them when they were uptiered and were absolute poo poo and i managed to do well. Also played them stock. If anything they should be better than before. So I do not see your point. 

lol, nvm if you don't

[Aragathor]

Just now, Miki12345 said:

I played them when they were uptiered and were absolute poo poo and i managed to do well. Also played them stock. If anything they should be better than before. So I do not see your point. 

So you have no idea how they play now and how they have been nerfed to fit the tier they are now.

Let me point out the Pensacola, at t7 after all the buffs it was a glass cannon, you had the guns and the agility but not the armor. High risk, high reward. At t6 it has become a nightmare of a ship, with guns too slow to turn and a horrible concealment. I sold it.

 

The reworked ships are quite different, more than you assume.

[Captn_Crap]

I bought Wichita recently (I didn't reach Baltimore yet) and she doesn't seem to be in need of any buffs. Baltimore is supposed to be even stronger so she needs a buff even less. I don't know about the others though.

 

What I would like to see is an increase of secondary range (and reload of the 127 mm double-mounts) as American cruiser have a good number of secondaries. It would open up the possibility of a fun build without increasing the performance of the ship (secondary build would still be very questionable).

[Nasty_Ninja]

16 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

I played them when they were uptiered and were absolute poo poo and i managed to do well. Also played them stock. If anything they should be better than before. So I do not see your point. 

 

Edit: i did not mean you are new here

Let me put what both ships has lost:

pesnacola:

when it was a t7 boat before the split, it had reasonable concealment to get close, good enough turret turn speed and 10 freedom shells for  those in the receiving end but explodes as soon as somebody sneezes at it, but the other aspects of it allowed a glass cannon playstyle.

now: still has 10 freedom shells, but you can now see it coming from the next continent, so you can delete it before it even gets into its effective range, take steps to avoid it and turret turn speed will make a IJN BB feel sorry for it.

 

New Orleans:

it was a mehbote at t8, nothing too intresting. Apart from being able to point bow at a Bismarck and be fine.

now: lost it’s 27mm bow to 19mm, not only that deck and upper belt is also 19mm, Lost its radar, concealment got nerfed, super heavy AP became the crappy regular ones. And all that while it’s slower, less agile and larger then the Pensacola.

 

well, since peeps are saying from Baltimore onwards it’s gets better, I’m gonna take their words for it for now.

[fumtu]

5 minutes ago, Nasty_Ninja said:

lost it’s 27mm bow to 19mm, not only that deck and upper belt is also 19mm, Lost its radar, concealment got nerfed, super heavy AP became the crappy regular ones.

 

NO never had SSH shells. Baltimore was, just like now, the first ship in line to get SSH.

[loppantorkel]

2 minutes ago, Nasty_Ninja said:

Let me put what both ships has lost:

pesnacola:

when it was a t7 boat before the split, it had reasonable concealment to get close, good enough turret turn speed and 10 freedom shells for  those in the receiving end but explodes as soon as somebody sneezes at it, but the other aspects of it allowed a glass cannon playstyle.

now: still has 10 freedom shells, but you can now see it coming from the next continent, so you can delete it before it even gets into its effective range, take steps to avoid it and turret turn speed will make a IJN BB feel sorry for it.

 

New Orleans:

it was a mehbote at t8, nothing too intresting. Apart from being able to point bow at a Bismarck and be fine.

now: lost it’s 27mm bow to 19mm, not only that deck and upper belt is also 19mm, Lost its radar, concealment got nerfed, super heavy AP became the crappy regular ones.

I still play New Orleans a lot and enjoy the ship. I don't think it's weak to be honest. Stats show it's not particularly strong either though so like Miki wrote, they may not be the easiest ships to perform in. I wouldn't mind the slight buff I mentioned though.

[Aragathor]

11 minutes ago, Captn_Crap said:

What I would like to see is an increase of secondary range (and reload of the 127 mm double-mounts) as American cruiser have a good number of secondaries. It would open up the possibility of a fun build without increasing the performance of the ship (secondary build would still be very questionable).

When Cleveland was still T6 I ran a secondary build on her. It was a riot in ops with 7,2km secondaries constantly firing away. I miss a cruiser line able to do that.

[Panocek]

24 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

NO never had SSH shells. Baltimore was, just like now, the first ship in line to get SSH.

And people overestimate SHS effectiveness. And no, having SHS shells doesn't give improved ricochet angles, as after all NC, Iowa class and Montana use SHS AP Mk 8 projectile without improved ricochets. On other hand, Pensa, Nope Orlean and Indy use "regular" AP shells with gimmick ricochet rules and they can brutalize cruisers just fine. 

 

19 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

When Cleveland was still T6 I ran a secondary build on her. It was a riot in ops with 7,2km secondaries constantly firing away. I miss a cruiser line able to do that.

Dallas somehow keeps 5km secondaries, compared to 4.5km on Pepsi, NO, Indy and Helena while keeping 5 gun/broadside. CA secondaries have quite higher reload, 4.5s compared to 6s on Dallas/Helena though.

 

Graf Spee have quite meaty by cruiser standards secondary loadout, hampered by 4km base range

[Xanta99]

Heavy cruisers aren't really intended to be a pure counter to DDs as much as light cruisers are, they are there to delete other cruisers primarily while contributing some to killing DDs and BBs (and planes).  That said, they become substantially more viable from T8 on when you get radar and eventually an insane fire rate at T10.  Indy has the radar at T7 of course, New Orleans loses out on that but Indy is less tanky and pretty similar to the old Pensacola

 

Just be happy you're not currently in the old T7 Pensa.  That thing did need buffs, and so we're where we are today.

[hgbn_dk]

27 minutes ago, Xanta99 said:

Just be happy you're not currently in the old T7 Pensa.  That thing did need buffs, and so we're where we are today.

I would instant buy Salt lake City if they ever release such. Just the exact same non modified T-VII Pensacola. Old Pensacola was a monster