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Beastofwar

DD are not weak at all !

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59 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

On the other hand you have the Khaba, which is detected at 10km, doesnt use smoke, and only has 6km torps. Its never going to sneak anywhere, nor stealth torp. It makes up for it by having excellent guns, to the point most people consider it a mini cruiser

 

Fun fact: Had a Khaba today in the enemy team, who got 3 kills with torps - almost a double strike aswell. I lol´ed. :cap_haloween:

 

58 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

It is all ok to me, play the class too. But DD fanatics seem all devouring when it comes to even more magic protection even if this completely wrecks other classes.

 

45 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

That is what I meant ty. Ofc a dd will sink a bb with torps np wit that. Yes also, to it burning it completely but then torp it to sink it, not keep on shooting a fully armored beast, that has nothing left to burn and sink it with HE, its not mechanism I like.

 

You two can come back talking with your realism, when we have realistic fleet composition. That means 1 BB, 5-10 Cruiser and ~25 DDs. Or we multiply the maintenance cost of a BB by 20. Which would also fit your "realism-narrative". So you´d lose a couple of million credits playing a BB. That would sort the fleet composition in game aswell. Only then your "arguments" might be valid.

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1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

 

10 Tiny Tims with a damage potential of 54 K damage hitting but barely scratching a DD is pretty weird too......should just blow up when 1 such a missile hits it good.

 

I understand why this cannot be. I do not uderstand why i may not fire when i want to. It should be my decision if the shot should be accurate or not by firing earlier. If they did this to BB guns, or DD torpedo's, the forum would collaps...

It is very frustrating and prob implemented as they couldnt find something else to balance the update. Another one is coming so maybe they fix that, but cvs have ruined my day many times so I wouldnt want even more power put there, it is not an easy class to balance cuz well truthfully cvs were op in rl and this must be presented in game too if we are to be honest :) 

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

You two can come back talking with your realism, when we have realistic fleet composition. That means 1 BB, 5-10 Cruiser and ~25 DDs. Or we multiply the maintenance cost of a BB by 20. Which would also fit your "realism-narrative". So you´d lose a couple of million credits playing a BB. That would sort the fleet composition in game aswell. Only then your "arguments" might be valid

It was just talk, throwing ideas etc. Yrs is pretty good also if they could do it, but high tier bbs have a huge cost already with no premium, so they are not exactly cheap to play. I would love a 'realism' mode of play representing actual battles kind of like operations but with players, i know this must be difficult but it's just ideas :)

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3 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

10 Tiny Tims with a damage potential of 54 K damage hitting but barely scratching a DD is pretty weird too......should just blow up when 1 such a missile hits it good.

It has been explained to you once, but you seem to have just ignored it.

 

So not only do you want a CV to be able to beat a DD with its secondaries, you want to be able to one shot them from full HP with rockets... 

 

Error 404 - logic not found.

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5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

Did you read the part about being the last ship - which happens to CV a lot - will often require you to sail to the cap if you don't want to lose the match ? It is a game, not a pure sea battle simulator.

But you were not the last ship. Read your opening post.

Spoiler

See here a DD that took 10 (!!!!) Tiny Tim anti-ship missiles (!!!!)  and still was not dead. He then took another 3K emergency defence fire from my secondary batteries.....still he floats.....

 

I'm not whining he killed me, i was immobile at the time of my own choosing because i wanted to delay the cap long enough to make it possible to win. A team mate did so after my sinking.

Now on to the second part: CVs  being the last ships alive. Before, with the RTS CVs, this was a rare sight (as in both teams being down to only CVs). Now it is much more common and I don't like that (then again, that's my opinion, so you're free to disagree). 

 

So, you had to go cap or lose: you could have asked your teammate to protect you, but you decided to take a risk and go cap yourself. That in itself is a judgement call during the game and, without a replay, none of us can judge if it was bad or good play. What was a bad play from your part was allowing a DD  to sneak up on your CV undetected. He should have been spotted, or at least his position should have been known. But he got so close that you only managed one rocket squadron and then he sunk you? That's the bad play from your part.

 

Should CVs really have the same gun capabilities as other ships? (hint answer is no, and BTW a BB has the same problem: approach Yamato from the other side of where his guns are facing and he'll be in a world of trouble to deal with you) CVs have the option to project their power all over the map, their main defence is stealth (like DD anyone ?) and range. Stealth to prevent taking damage in a less armored ship and range to have the time to react to enemies sailing your way.

You neglected stealth (your position was known as you were capping) and range (DD ambushed you).

 

To summarize: now you come here and complain that it's unfair that you couldn't sink him, but:

- DB would have,

- your teammate could have, if the DD were spotted,

- the DD sneaked up on you and ambushed you: he did a good play and got rewarded,

- you did a risky play (but combined with the lack of DD spotting I'm leaning more towards a bad play) to go cap, your move got countered and you died. Can't win 'em all.

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Vor 18 Stunden, Beastofwar sagte:

See here a DD that took 10 (!!!!) Tiny Tim anti-ship missiles (!!!!)  and still was not dead. He then took another 3K emergency defence fire from my secondary batteries.....still he floats.....

 

I'm not whining he killed me, i was immobile at the time of my own choosing because i wanted to delay the cap long enough to make it possible to win. A team mate did so after my sinking.

 

Had i been sailing with top speed secondary guns would have finally gotten the DD probably. I was however unable in close quarters to be able to shoot at him with rockets, just as i feared. The fire delay nerf causes CV to not be able to defend themselves with aircraft when DD are nearby. There is no other option but to spend points and ship upgrades to increase the range, ROF and accuracy of the secondary batteries now....

 

 

 

 

 

 

WG14.jpg

 

You can only kill that Shimakaze easily when your CV hides out of range or runs away? That`s unfair.

A CV should also be able to push or tank a cap and kill the Shima at the same time!

 

I guess the "not going alone" doesn`t only count for all the other classes. Just some food for thought.

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7 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

But for balancing reasons DD can just shoot HE at BB superstructure and wear them down with fire. It will then sink.  It is rediculous, but it is a game where no ship is all powerfull and all can hurt it.

In game DD torpedoes efficiency is nerfed into the ground, so the guns were buffed for game balance.  For example:Japanese Type 93 in game are visible from close to 2.0 Km, which does not reflect historic actuality. 

 

Just like BB got magic heals and 800% accuracy buffs with there guns in game vs history.

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10 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

I didnt want to elaborate on my statement as I thought everyone is aware of the problem. Since it appears you try to insult here with no reason or provocation I will not give you the pleasure to respond. If you are not a [edited] and you just dont know, then let me tell u that dds (khaba for example and others) being able to burn a BB to the waterline and sink using ONLY their guns is ridiculous to be in the game. Hurt their superstructure yes, sink them? no way. It is not a mechanism I like. Now if a ship that has certain advantages by nature (stealth, torps etc ) is given even more advantages by the game designers to negate its disadvantages ( like tiny guns that deal HUGE dmg, unrealistic dispersion on a very small ship etc) where they were weak then yes, this ship is indeed OP.

 

So if it suits your argument, DDs are sneaky, then thy have godlike guns, in other occasions they have undetectable torpedoes ... Care to point me to the DD with ALL those features ? Because so far there is no such thing in the game to my knowledge.

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7 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

10 Tiny Tims with a damage potential of 54 K damage hitting but barely scratching a DD is pretty weird too......should just blow up when 1 such a missile hits it good.

 

I understand why this cannot be. I do not uderstand why i may not fire when i want to. It should be my decision if the shot should be accurate or not by firing earlier. If they did this to BB guns, or DD torpedo's, the forum would collaps...

But they regularly do this to BB guns and DD torpedoes ... it's called dispersion/sigma on one and detection range/speed/range on the other ... those stats have a great impact on the effectiveness of those weapon systems ... you can have 600mm BB guns but if the dispersion is 500m with 1.5 sigma you won't hit anything ... just look at the Stalingrad vs Kronshtadt/Azuma/Alaska as an example. They have the same caliber guns but the effectiveness is very different.

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Vor 22 Stunden, Hannibalurg sagte:

DDs are not Weak, they are just put in a really shitty position in the game since Wargaming hate destroyers and add [edited]Hydro, radar and spotting plane to every [edited]ship there is.

well.. situation changed but its like before: read the game, adept to the position wg or the game situation puts you in and everyhing is fine..

has been the same with smoke rework, with stealth firing rework and will be the same with all the reworks and adjustments to come.

 

for example.. still easily possible to shred the stats records world wide on ijn DDs where everybody says IJN DDs are weak, their torpedos are weak and DDs are outplayed by CVs or whatever big fuss is made on DDs these days..

 

:etc_hide_turtle:

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45 minutes ago, dd__dd said:

well.. situation changed but its like before: read the game, adept to the position wg or the game situation puts you in and everyhing is fine..

has been the same with smoke rework, with stealth firing rework and will be the same with all the reworks and adjustments to come.

 

for example.. still easily possible to shred the stats records world wide on ijn DDs where everybody says IJN DDs are weak, their torpedos are weak and DDs are outplayed by CVs or whatever big fuss is made on DDs these days..

 

:etc_hide_turtle:

 

I think i recall hunting a DD with your name this morning...

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Vor 5 Minuten, Beastofwar sagte:

 

I think i recall hunting a DD with your name this morning...

might be if it was a Yugumo hopefully I got out of trouble. :etc_hide_turtle:

have fun m8

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DD is most OP class in teh game!

 

They are small, they best camo ratings, they got torps and they are basically high all the time and they are best armored because even if you do hit them you get only overpens! :cap_win:

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1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said:

DD is most OP class in teh game!

...they are basically high all the time..

So it is a drug issue?

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40 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

DDs are on speedboost all teh time I tell ya! :fish_panic:

 

Hey some us aren't on speed boost ALL the time...I mean at 43 knots in the minsk sometimes I don't bother with it at all...it does FEEL like I'm running speed boost all the time though.

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10 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

 

Hey some us aren't on speed boost ALL the time...I mean at 43 knots in the minsk sometimes I don't bother with it at all...it does FEEL like I'm running speed boost all the time though.

I dunno my dude...I feel like there is something fishy in the water :fish_happy:

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23 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I dunno my dude...I feel like there is something fishy in the water :fish_happy:

My Metal fish only want to hug things, is that so wrong?

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10 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

My Metal fish only want to hug things, is that so wrong?

Only if you don't blast a crack between the joints of my nickel deck :Smile_hiding:

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14 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

So if it suits your argument, DDs are sneaky, then thy have godlike guns, in other occasions they have undetectable torpedoes ... Care to point me to the DD with ALL those features ? Because so far there is no such thing in the game to my knowledge.

 

Fushun/Gadjah Mada?

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9 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

Fushun/Gadjah Mada?

DW torps can't hit DDs ... And GM is definitely not sneaky ... not compared to other DDs at the tear ...

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Gents,

 

I've cleaned up a lenghtly personal argument from the topic.

Please stay on the topic and solve personal issues on PM.

In a civil manner of course.

 

Have a good day.

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On 2/27/2019 at 1:26 AM, lossi_2018 said:

I wasnt proposing to nerf the dds or anything. Just make it a bit more difficult, or give the targeted ships a counter like shooting it as you say and if you over pen the hull gives us flooding or something so we dont feel cheated when we score a perfect hit and it goes through the other way. At least have it take a part of the dd with it which isnt unrealistic. Again this is more suggestion and general talk and not me saying I have a prob with the game.   

You do know you contradict yourself with the very next sentence? The things you propose are the very embodiment of a nerf.... 

How do you suggest we balance those changes? By giving every DD useful torps perhaps? And making those torps much stronger just like they should be? One or two torpedoes should take almost any BB out of action after all... 

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you know rn i can barely play due to sound issues so Im willing to accept any argument, I just want to play and yes torps should be more powerful imo.

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