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Beastofwar

DD are not weak at all !

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See here a DD that took 10 (!!!!) Tiny Tim anti-ship missiles (!!!!)  and still was not dead. He then took another 3K emergency defence fire from my secondary batteries.....still he floats.....

 

I'm not whining he killed me, i was immobile at the time of my own choosing because i wanted to delay the cap long enough to make it possible to win. A team mate did so after my sinking.

 

Had i been sailing with top speed secondary guns would have finally gotten the DD probably. I was however unable in close quarters to be able to shoot at him with rockets, just as i feared. The fire delay nerf causes CV to not be able to defend themselves with aircraft when DD are nearby. There is no other option but to spend points and ship upgrades to increase the range, ROF and accuracy of the secondary batteries now....

 

 

 

 

 

 

WG14.jpg

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Ive followed your posts the last weeks. You meassure everything in damage. So according to your own argumentation: DDs are the weakest class.

 

PS: One screen says nothing. Never has, never will be.

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[PARAZ]
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A single DB attack can, given sufficient prayers and sacrifices to RNGesus, almost oneshot any DD with SE and certainly oneshot most of them without SE.

 

In practice removing roughly half the HP of an offending DD with a single DB attack is far from uncommon even with the Lexington (or should be if they haven't changed her DBs since PTS, which they afaik have not).

Using TiTs in particular is the wrong way to approach the situation. If you want to use RFs against DDs, use FFARs. TiTs are for harassing BBs and cruisers, their performance against DDs is often sub-par as your example handily proves.

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[NWP]
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Why was your team not able to deal any damage to that DD? He had ~2k or 5,5k HP left depending if he was running SE or not. And noone could do it...

Killing a DD entirely on your own is very unlikely, unless you are a DD/Cruiser with torps that can hit the DD unexpectedly. (Or the DD has to be really stupid)

 

I think its questionable to try to enhance your secondaries for such rare cases. Maybe there are other better options to solve this, by changing playstyle :fish_book:

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[XTREM]
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24 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

There is no other option but to spend points and ship upgrades to increase the range, ROF and accuracy of the secondary batteries now....

 

I guess Saipan is screwed :Smile_trollface:

 

But seriously, just use the dive bombers.

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[DMAS]
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DD are not weak at all 

 

Sorry but to me it seems that the DDs you play are quite weak :Smile_unsure:

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59 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Why was your team not able to deal any damage to that DD? He had ~2k or 5,5k HP left depending if he was running SE or not. And noone could do it...

 

Because he actually is a skilled DD player ?  I lost sight of him him many times ( spotting nerf )  saw him again on occasion on many locations in the map when attacking other ships with unsuitable bombers to get him. I do not think divebombers are suitable to reliably hit an agile, speeding small DD with a player it it that knows what he/she is doing. Torpedo's on DD only when it lies still in smoke or in utter desperation for the same reasons . And torpedo's have a firing delay too......but had so at rework release, was no kick in the back nerf such as firing delay on rockets.

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I think its questionable to try to enhance your secondaries for such rare cases. Maybe there are other better options to solve this, by changing playstyle :fish_book:

 

If you read i was unable to defend my CV itself with strike fighters when he got close because of the fire delay nerf, the wide turning nerf and the spotting nerf it is the only option left.

 

Just accepting i cannot defend myself from near DD is not acceptable at all. I can only accept it because the CV has weapons for near defence that can be enhanced to give a chance to kill in time. 5.8 km is just acceptabale enough to fire at attacking DD as secondary batteries  ofcourse miss most of the time, but will be more accurate the closer the DD comes.

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Using TiTs in particular is the wrong way to approach the situation. If you want to use RFs against DDs, use FFARs. TiTs are for harassing BBs and cruisers, their performance against DDs is often sub-par as your example handily proves.

Well that must  be true because 10 of them have a potential damage of 50 K........and that 16K healthpool DD survives them.

 

I taken them because they are special from all other CV strike fighters and they have a tendacy to cause DD with very few HP to blow up from 1 missile.

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[SCRUB]
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DD (with 15 torps) kills enemy ship when he gets close.  What a shocker.  That never happens to other classes either...

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[RONIN]
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3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Well that must  be true because 10 of them have a potential damage of 50 K........and that 16K healthpool DD survives them.

They dont. 10 have a potential damage of 54k. That however is if they all got citadels, which DD dont have. The max potential damage of 10 TiTs against a DD is 18k, and thats assuming they all hit areas that are in no way saturated, or things like turrets that give no damage pens

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DDs are OP right now for most cvs and bbs, and those that seem weak are piloted by less competent players to put it politely. 

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26 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

They dont. 10 have a potential damage of 54k. That however is if they all got citadels, which DD dont have. The max potential damage of 10 TiTs against a DD is 18k, and thats assuming they all hit areas that are in no way saturated, or things like turrets that give no damage pens

 

Well AP bombs the Japanese divebombers have will do no good at close defence of the CV either. It's just that the fire cracker damage i see of smaller rockets doesn't give me confidence at all these damage the DD enough. let alone kill it to save my CV in close encounters that happen in end match more often. The Japanese strike fighters have no Tiny Tim's yet their performance is just as pathetic. And that was before the many nerfs that made strike fighters struggle even more.

 

I am the most dissapointed about that fire delay......low damage or not, refusing to fire rockets just when you need them to fire really piss me off. And as you can see that overly herassing nerf didn't prevent me to fire 10 Tiny Tims- which are not pray&spray missiles - into a DD anyway.

 

Many times you are flying right in - hidden !!! - supporting cruiser AA fire, and have no chance to get damage in return for losing aircraft. Thje same thing goes when ou do attack bigger ships with TiT's. Fire delay f&cks you up then too, especially when pulling out of an attack a succesive bigh ship could be attacker right after. Now you can't and change into a fireball. But you do get the bill for losing them It just seems as a stack of so many nerfs it's just rediculous.

 

I'm not suggesting i should be able to dominate DD at all times.....but close defence of your CV.....must that really be nerfed so it's near impossible ? The maps are not so wide you can just prevent that, nor does it allow to make the enemy lose the match as you can still cap. If they must keep it this way, then certainly never nerf secondary guns.....because i see that coming too once more CV players see themselves forced to do this also.

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3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Well AP bombs the Japanese divebombers have will do no good at close defence of the CV either. It's just that the fire cracker damage i see of smaller rockets doesn't give me confidence at all these damage the DD enough. let alone kill it. The Japanese strike fighters have not Tim's yet their performance is as pathetic. And that was before the many nerfs.

 

I am the most dissapointed about that fire delay......low damage or not, refusing to fire rockets really piss me off. Many times you are flying in supporting cruiser AA fire too, and have no chance to get damage in return for losing aircraft. But you do get the bill for losing them It just seems as a stack of so many nerfs it's just rediculous.

You shouldnt be trying to do "close defense" of a CV against a DD. Especially close defense against a DD that has a cruiser right next to it?

 

Firstly you should have scouted the DD out in the opening minutes of the game. If you (or your team) havent found the position of ALL of the DD within the first 2 mins, then you are being blind to an ambush and need to scout more. You shouldnt ever be suprised by a DD getting close to you.

Secondly at no point should you be overrun by a DD with a supporting cruiser - you should have left that position a LONG time previously.

The only exception is one of those games where you're last alive and they have 10 ships still in which case the game went wrong significantly beforehand.

 

Scout out DD's more.

Look at the minimap.

Start moving when it looks like your flank will fall.

 

Do these things and you wont need to worry about close defense vs DD again

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13 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

You shouldnt be trying to do "close defense" of a CV against a DD. Especially close defense against a DD that has a cruiser right next to it?

No sheep to the slaughter.....not acceptable.

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Firstly you should have scouted the DD out in the opening minutes of the game.

 

 

Did, fired my first out of 10 Tiny Tims in it .....despite all nerfs working against that.

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If you (or your team) havent found the position of ALL of the DD within the first 2 mins, then you are being blind to an ambush and need to scout more. You shouldnt ever be suprised by a DD getting close to you.

 

It got close to me only in end game, i did see it coming but was going nowhere in a 200+ meter ship near to an island in the capping zone, denying cap to him.....( 1 layered cap map ) You are right that fleeying at top speed would probably denied him the kill....but fleeying ins't always the best decision if you want to win the match, despite the -60 point loss if they do manage to kill you.

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Secondly at no point should you be overrun by a DD with a supporting cruiser - you should have left that position a LONG time previously.

 

Admit there are DD players that do have skills to slip in and out of danger, can survive engangements with many ships and a CV activly hunting it between other bigger ship attacks.

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The only exception is one of those games where you're last alive and they have 10 ships still in which case the game went wrong significantly beforehand.

 

Scout out DD's more.

Look at the minimap.

Start moving when it looks like your flank will fall.

 

Do these things and you wont need to worry about close defense vs DD again

 

Did all those things, do them always so you are wrong. And you forget on autopilot ( this was not the case now ) DD have good oppertunities to ambush beacuse the player is somehwere else actively in combat.

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38 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

DDs are OP right now for most cvs and bbs, and those that seem weak are piloted by less competent players to put it politely. 

BBs and CVs are OP right now for most CAs and DDs, and those that seem weak are piloted by less competent players to put it politely.  :Smile_teethhappy::Smile_teethhappy:

 

and vice versa...

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3 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

DDs are OP right now for most cvs and bbs, and those that seem weak are piloted by less competent players to put it politely. 

DDs are not OP right now verses cvs and bbs, however they are OP against certain player types.

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DDs are not Weak, they are just put in a really shitty position in the game since Wargaming hate destroyers and add [edited]Hydro, radar and spotting plane to every [edited]ship there is.

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Player with 21 day 25% WR in a class claims the class is not weak? Check.

Anecdote instead of data? Check.

Multiple exclamation marks? Check!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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Ahhhh classic Beast. Moans about DD’s being OP even though he dealt 16k with ineffective tools when he had better options, disabled and damaged modules 9 times, including the engine... twice and died because he refused to relocate and let his team support.

 

Yeah.... it’s DD’s “fault”... can’t possible be because you’re not very aware.

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50 minutes ago, thisismalacoda said:

Multiple exclamation marks? Check!!!!!!!!!!!

"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

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33 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Ahhhh classic Beast. Moans about DD’s being OP even though he dealt 16k with ineffective tools when he had better options, disabled and damaged modules 9 times, including the engine... twice and died because he refused to relocate and let his team support.

 

Yeah.... it’s DD’s “fault”... can’t possible be because you’re not very aware.

 

What team ? They were located at the bottom of the sea except for one AA CL :-)

 

These ( tier IX-X ) teammates can't complain about an enemy ( T VIII )  CV killing them or even damaging them : that one was hellbent on sinking me. My CV's AA  killed 44 of it's aircraft......

 

 

 

 

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What you forget to mention OP is the module damage you caused: twice you wrecked the engine and in between you also wrecked his torpedo tubes.

So no, damage doesn't tell the entire story. And there is spotting as well.

 

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